From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 1 09:02:52 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POOKS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POKK2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCS00FDU5M86M@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:49:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27766A33 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:51:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD8419BB for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:50:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB7A19B4 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB8AC1B7FF for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:50:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B08A81B7F0 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:50:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:50:20 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: New AAA study on distracted driving and cell phones To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 75BDCB24-D7D0-11DD-912D-F83E113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 76A5CD20-D7D0-11DD-8901-977110C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <495BC86F.1000900@terabites.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Gordon Peterson Date: December 31, 2008 2:30:55 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: New AAA study on distracted driving and cell phones It's true that many things can distract a driver. However, relatively few of those are likely to distract a driver for as long a time, and as continuously, as a cell phone conversation commonly does. Part of the problem is that the person on the other end of the cell phone conversation is generally unaware of traffic conditions the driver is in, and therefore expects the full attention of the driver, even when they cannot safely give that. Talking to another rider in the same car is different, since they hopefully can see when traffic gets hairy, and pause the conversation for a while until things ease up a little. It is very frustrating when, after being angered by another driver who is clearly not paying attention to what they are doing, you finally get past them and see that VERY VERY often they are (predictably) talking on their cell phone. The fact that other things CAN also distract a driver is not a reason to not address the problem. Other driver voluntary actions which are equally irresponsible and equally lengthy (putting on makeup, eating a sandwich, reading a newspaper, whatever) while driving should be equally illegal. David Farber wrote: > I have seen this often oin Pittsburgh djf > Begin forwarded message: > From: ben guthrie > Date: December 31, 2008 12:29:26 PM EST > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: Re: [IP] New AAA study on distracted driving and cell phones > Yes, > there many distractions which impair our driving ( and I'm not that > good to begin with ). > But, as a denizen of New York City, I have to tell you that I've had > many cell phoning pedestrians walk into me on the sidewalk. Every > time it happens I think "How could they drive a car and talk if they > can't even walk and cell phone at the same time?" > Just my $.02's worth. > ben guthrie > David Farber wrote: >> Time to regulate yelling kids, etc djf >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: Lauren Weinstein >> Date: December 30, 2008 8:37:03 PM EST >> To: dave@farber.net >> Cc: lauren@vortex.com >> Subject: New AAA study on distracted driving and cell phones >> >> >> Dave, >> >> AAA has a new study out, that appears to confirm what many of us have >> been saying for *years* -- hands-free cell phones are no safer when >> driving than hand-held devices. The problem is distraction, and >> there >> is a wide spectrum of circumstances that fall into that category. >> Laws that mandate the use of hands-free units are clearly called >> into question ( http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000396.html ). >> >> The full AAA report is well worth reading: >> >> http://www.aaafoundation.org/pdf/cellphonesanddrivingreport.pdf >> >> --Lauren-- >> Lauren Weinstein >> lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org >> Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 >> http://www.pfir.org/lauren >> Co-Founder, PFIR >> - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org >> Co-Founder, NNSquad >> - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org >> Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com >> Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy >> Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com -- Gordon Peterson II http://personal.terabites.com 1977-2007: Thirty year anniversary of local area networking -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 1 09:02:54 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POOKS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POKK2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCS00E6X5RNWT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:52:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9F6240D1 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:55:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6795B8E for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:47:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66B955B84 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:47:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE0701B825 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:47:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7485C1B824 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:47:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:47:38 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Telcos invading each other's turf To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <66FC0545-7FD2-42FB-B730-EB798BAC40D2@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-27--917811896 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 15B4B4FE-D7D0-11DD-8CD2-F83E113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 17C3FF70-D7D0-11DD-B462-08BE2847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <495BE51B.8090605@bennett.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-27--917811896 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Begin forwarded message: From: Richard Bennett Date: December 31, 2008 4:33:15 PM EST To: David Farber Subject: Telcos invading each other's turf Dave - IP might be interested in this story. Network World reports that=20=20 Verizon is over-building into AT&T territory in North Texas, providing=20= =20 consumers with a choice they've never had before. I don't have details=20= =20 yet, but some of your readers certainly do. http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/123108-fiber-att-verizon.html?fsrc=3D= netflash-rss Verizon is setting up a Wild West-style telecom showdown by expanding=20=20 its FiOS network further into territory traditionally held by rival=20=20 AT&T, says a new report from Information Gatekeepers. According to IGI, a telecom consulting firm, Verizon's recent FiOS=20=20 expansion into areas of northern Texas could mark the first time that=20=20 one carrier has directly competed with another in its own franchised=20=20 territory for residential wireline Internet services. Traditionally,=20=20 Verizon and AT&T have competed with each other primarily for wireless=20=20 voice and data services, as the companies' landline businesses have=20=20 been dependent on architecture that each company has purchased over=20=20 the years from the original "Baby Bell" companies formed in the wake=20=20 of AT&T's breakup in 1984. But with Verizon now offering video, voice and data services over its=20=20 fiber-optic network in AT&T=92s home state, IGI says that the telecom=20=20 industry could be "drastically" changed. In particular, IGI says that=20=20 Verizon's decision to "overbuild" its facilities into AT&T's franchise=20= =20 areas could spark AT&T to begin overbuilding as well, thus turning=20=20 competition for building out services into a potential "nationwide=20=20 phenomenon." [more at the NW site] RB --=20 Richard Bennett Network Architect ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-27--917811896 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Begin forwarded messa= ge:

From: Richard Bennett <richard@bennett.com>
Date: December 31, 2008 4:33:15 PM EST
To: David Farb= er <dave@farber.net>
=
Subject: Telcos inva= ding each other's turf
Dave -

I= P might be interested in this story. Network World reports that Verizon is = over-building into AT&T territory in North Texas, providing consumers w= ith a choice they've never had before. I don't have details yet, but some o= f your readers certainly do.

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/123108-fiber-att-= verizon.html?fsrc=3Dnetflash-rss

Verizon is set= ting up a Wild West-style telecom showdown by expanding its FiOS networ= k further into territory traditionally held by rival AT&T, says a new report f= rom Information Gatekeepers.

<= p>According to IGI, a telecom consulting firm, Verizon's recent FiOS expans= ion into areas of northern Texas could mark the first time that one carrier= has directly competed with another in its own franchised territory for res= idential wireline Internet services. Traditionally, Verizon and AT&T ha= ve competed with each other primarily for wireless voice and data services,= as the companies' landline businesses have been dependent on architecture = that each company has purchased over the years from the original "Baby Bell= " companies formed in the wake of AT&T's breakup in 1984.

But w= ith Verizon now offering video, voice and data services over its fiber-opti= c network in AT&T=92s home state, IGI says that the telecom industry co= uld be "drastically" changed. In particular, IGI says that Verizon's decisi= on to "overbuild" its facilities into AT&T's franchise areas could spar= k AT&T to begin overbuilding as well, thus turning competition for buil= ding out services into a potential "nationwide phenomenon."

[more at t= he NW site]

RB
--=20
Richard Bennett
Network Architect

= --Apple-Mail-27--917811896--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 1 09:02:56 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POOKS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POKK2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCS00E8B6WKWT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:17:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56761191 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:19:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A99767 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:16:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 892E4763 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:15:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 680841B82C for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:15:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3F70C1B7FF for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:15:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:15:55 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: The Fed Who Blew the Whistle To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 08F294BC-D7D4-11DD-B1E3-F83E113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 0AD35B36-D7D4-11DD-9CDB-6F14AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <495BD90A.4090707@dcrocker.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Dave CROCKER Date: December 31, 2008 3:41:46 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] The Fed Who Blew the Whistle Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net David Farber wrote: > The Fed Who Blew the Whistle > Is he a hero or a criminal? A question occurs to me: When a loyal, experienced insider goes through agony about whether to blow the whistle, and then finally does, does the dominant view of society *ever* later find that what they did was the wrong thing? My impression is that with the passage of time, history always lands in on place of deep appreciation for their choice. Does anyone have counter-examples? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 1 09:02:58 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POOKS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POKK2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCS00FMD6WN6M@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:17:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBA5C1FD for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:19:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BF135F81 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:16:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3B95F7B for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:16:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476801B831 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:16:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 047EE1B82C for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:16:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:16:43 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Via Web-intercept splash page, TV station accused of "hostage taking" To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <1D1B555B-82B8-45D2-8153-322ACBCA20F5@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 257A66DC-D7D4-11DD-BAF1-F83E113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 277F7224-D7D4-11DD-A236-FBF12847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20081231214245.GJ8048@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: December 31, 2008 4:42:45 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Via Web-intercept splash page, TV station accused of "hostage taking" Via Web-Intercept Splash Page, TV Station Accused of "Hostage Taking" http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000486.html Greetings. Well, we're at the end of another *really* fun year, and just like the routine Fall fires we had here in L.A. recently, we're now being treated to yet another round of cable carriage disputes. But some new techniques are being used to editorialize about them this time. You've already no doubt heard that Time Warner Cable (my happy local cable TV provider, as it happens) is threatening to pull all Viacom channels off air at midnight tonight over a contract dispute ( http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2337774,00.asp ). Some observers speculate that if TW follows through on this, they may unwittingly help drive more subscribers to online TV offerings. Of course TW is ready for that eventuality with their upcoming bandwidth caps. But there are other similar disputes, including one between BendBroadband of Oregon and KFXO-TV. This morning I received a screenshot of what greeted a BendBroadband Internet subscriber today -- a long message embodied in a "splash" screen that intercepted his initial attempt to reach an unrelated Web site. In general, I view ISP stand-alone "splash" pages, which don't modify other pages, nor prepend (or append) themselves onto other pages, as the lessor evil when it comes to ISP page modifications. In this case though, BendBroadband went way beyond a simple service-related informational message stating that a dispute exists, and instead used their PerfTech intercept system for a long editorial tirade that included accusing KFXO of holding programming "hostage" for commercial gain. As it turns out, the intercept page is currently accessible outside of BendBroadband's service space, so you can see it for yourself (I've replaced the original user's URL with the NNSquad home page for this example): http://tinyurl.com/perftech-kfxo One assumes that KFXO wasn't offered equal time for a response in the same manner. BendBroadband appears to have clearly gone "over the top" in this case, and has provided an object lesson demonstrating how easily such IP interception capabilities can be abused. And so it goes ... Best wishes for 2009! --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 1 09:03:00 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POOKS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POKK2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCS00O4VBFE9H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 03:54:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D04725773 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 03:57:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A11D19F3 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 03:50:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C9519E9 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 03:50:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.197] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n018oL8F008903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 03:50:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 03:50:21 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Police say couple paid for $2.8 million new home by bilking Best Buy To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <65225AD3-D417-4FE8-A829-8ED400F9DBFC@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--910449166 X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 4178196C-D7E1-11DD-A8B4-AB7210C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-3--910449166 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock News/2100653/ ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-3--910449166 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock News/2100653/

--Apple-Mail-3--910449166--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 1 09:03:02 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POOKS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POKK2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCS001EUD86M9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:33:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D343F53F4 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:36:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E6311AD for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:36:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32D11C97 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:31:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2661C91 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:31:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F4A1B841 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:31:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 69E111B840 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:31:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:31:55 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Simple and Potent Idea . . . To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 08488AA4-D7E7-11DD-B5D9-F83E113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 093B0BF8-D7E7-11DD-9E0C-164D10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Here we go yet again . Solution to all problems-- pass a law in USA. How does that work world wide. djf Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: December 31, 2008 5:33:19 PM EST To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Simple and Potent Idea . . . [Note: This item comes from reader Seth Johnson. DLH] From: Seth Johnson Date: December 30, 2008 6:50:01 PM PST To: dewayne@warpspeed.com Subject: I posted DPS . . . It's a good proposition . . . Seth Recognize and Secure Standards for the Internet Platform: Enforce a policy assuring that the term "Internet" be applied to network offerings that follow the principles of practice generally embodied in the Internet Protocol. Innovation can continue in both standards and network offerings, while providers who wish to offer a general purpose platform based on the Internet Protocol, may continue to represent the advantages of that design (such as for interoperability, flexibility and uniform treatment of traffic flow), without consumer confusion when comparing with other offerings that may not clearly distinguish their practices from the standard. See commentary and proposed legislative language: RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 1 09:03:03 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POOKS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCS00601POKK2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCS0008DDGF95@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:38:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1CCB255CD for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:41:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CB91CB6 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:33:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5270F1C99 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:33:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BDB28C37C for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:33:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B95A68C37B for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:33:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:33:20 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Telcos invading each other's turf To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <5C9EF45B-BCF0-46F0-9E49-BF64C8850A6D@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-10--907869672 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 3B33E940-D7E7-11DD-8A45-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 3C3110CA-D7E7-11DD-8DC6-475210C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901010856.n018uqS07062@viper.oldcity.dca.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-10--907869672 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Begin forwarded message: From: "Bruce Kushnick" Date: January 1, 2009 3:56:56 AM EST To: Subject: RE: [IP] Telcos invading each other's turf Hope springs eternal=85 So what if under the SBC-Ameritech merger, SBC=20= =20 claimed it would enter 30 markets outside their own territory and Bell=20= =20 Atlantic-GTE told congress it would have 24 cities in 30 months. Verizon already denied this was going to be a =91trend=92. http://telephonyonline.com/iptv/news/verizon-taking-on-att-1204/ It ain=92t gonna happen as both of these companies can=92t even finish=20= =20 their own territories as stated. During the previous mergers they both=20= =20 claimed invasion, but it was closer to =91let=92s make our merger deals,=20= =20 then we=92ll claim the markets changed and=85 B. ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-10--907869672 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=Apple-Mail-11--907869672; type="text/html" --Apple-Mail-11--907869672 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Begin forwarded messa= ge:

From: "Bruce Kushnick" <bruce@newnetworks.com>
Date: January 1, 2009 3:56:56 AM EST<= /font>
Subject: RE: [IP] Telcos invadi= ng each other's turf

<= /div>
<= span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Hope spri= ngs eternal=85 So what if under the SBC-Ameritech merger, SBC claimed it wo= uld enter 30 markets outside their own territory and Bell Atlantic-GTE told= congress it would have 24 cities in 30 months.
 
Verizon already denied this was going to be = a =91trend=92.
http://telephonyon= line.com/iptv/news/verizon-taking-on-att-1204/=
=  
It ain=92t gonna happen as both of these = companies can=92t even finish their own territories as stated. During the p= revious mergers they both claimed invasion, but it was closer to =91let=92s= make our merger deals, then we=92ll claim the markets changed and=85<= /o:p>
 =
B.
=

<= div style=3D"text-align: right; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-= left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times Ne= w Roman'; ">
 
<= /div>
=
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http://gizmodo.com/5121902/iphone-3g-unlock-now-available

--Apple-Mail-1--873097948--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 1 18:10:31 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCT00J01F1DBI@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 18:10:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCT00J01F192S@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 01 Jan 2009 18:10:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCT00ICFC1GIB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2D03599A for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:08:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91E1022D0 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:08:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE68365 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:04:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3000D5F for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3D21B8E3 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:03:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 411E81B8E2 for ; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:03:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:03:45 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] THIS IS A MUST READ -- Simple and Potent and FAULTY Idea . . . To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 0FFE240C-D850-11DD-92EE-F83E113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 1E6EEE72-D850-11DD-AB74-DE6E395B0D50 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <495D2124.60609@cavebear.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 I would point out endlessly that regulation and law developed and mandated by people who do not understand the network technology will doom us all to third world status djf Begin forwarded message: From: Karl Auerbach Date: January 1, 2009 3:01:40 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Simple and Potent Idea . . . > > Recognize and Secure Standards for the Internet Platform: ... This is one of the most anti-innovation ideas I've seen so far this (LAST YEAR djf) year. ;-) It takes a rather simplistic view of how the net works. For instance it asserts that "Internet" routers "transmit packets independently of each other and independently of the applications that the packets are supporting." That assertion holds only for the most primitive of routers. Whether via route caches, flow recognition, fast path vs slow path switching, routers try to gain efficiency by recognizing the non-independence of packets. One might argue that this thing would outlaw IPv6 because it has a flow identifier that is intended indicate when packets are interrelated. It also asserts that "Internet principles" are commonly understood - which kinda makes the mind boggle considering the deep arguments that are occupying the IETF about some pretty fundamental ideas. It also seems to ban NATs by excluding them from that thing it defines as the "Internet". Part (11) of the document is unrealistic about how the internet is governed and is a paean to the mythical idea that the internet is governed by "consensus". Having spent a lot of time with ICANN I can attest that at that level the net is governed by fighting among incumbent commercial interests; we users are mainly relegated to the role of observers who will eventually pay the toll. And, to get a jump on what Brett G. will say, this thing is a recipe for financial collapse of many internet providers. Fed Ex and UPS are allowed to charge different amounts for different grades of service and for different types of content (e.g. frozen materials), or even different distances (China rather than the US), so why should internet providers be denied the right to pass on to customers the differential costs that are caused by users' differential uses? I'm seeing a revival of IP multicast at the edges as a vehicle for delivery of video content. I know from my experiences with IP/TV at Precept Software and Cisco back in the 1990's that IP multicast can be an expensive bear to manage and maintain. It would make sense to charge a bit more for multicast traffic, but this proposal would force providers to absorb those costs. Network neutrality is a great buzzword but it is ultimately a meaningless one. It is much better for us to recognize that there are different kinds of internet traffic that engender different costs that somebody somewhere is going to have to pay. It makes economic sense to place the burden of those costs onto the person who makes the choice to initiate the flow of traffic that is causing those costs - that creates a good economic back pressure and helps avoid tragedies of the commons. What I primarily find objectionable are those providers that use their near monopoly positions, particularly at the "last mile", to create predatory price and access structures so that they give themselves better prices and terms than they allow to competitors who are forced to use their near-monopoly last mile public-utility circuits. There is another aspect to this: Many of us here view the internet as a system that delivers packets from one IP address to another. I buy my internet services on that basis. However, the vast majority of the population has come to view the internet as a collection of services, primarily web browsing and email. That majority of net users buy those services and don't care at all about packet transport. And many of this group of users do want discriminatory services, such as spam filtering and porn blockers. It's my own personal feeling that the internet is evolving from a system of smooth end-to-end packet transport to a system that is lumpy. The first step was NATs. IPv6 will add a parallel net that occupies some of the same wires. National forces and ICANN's delays are creating pressures that may cause DNS to fragment into separate systems that have a consistent core part but that have local top level domains. The imbalance in traffic flows, first seen in the imbalance of traffic emitted by web users and web serves, will be exacerbated by video traffic and this will, in turn, put more stress on peering and transit relationships between packet carriers and a greater emphasis on traffic engineering. The time requirements of VOIP may increase the number of specialized parallel paths that are constructed for that kind of traffic. There is an idea that one can draw a graph a particular technology on the basis of innovation versus time. Such a graph would often show the classical knee curve of rapid innovation followed by a period of stability. The time to apply regulation is not during that innovative rise but, rather, during that period of stability. The internet is still a nascent technology and rapidly evolving. If regulation is warranted, and there is no doubt that some regulation is warranted, then that regulation should be focused on clearly defined concrete existing problems. Grand synoptic regulatory schemes for the internet are premature. --karl-- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jan 2 16:18:03 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCV00K014HWFQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:17:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCV00K014HFF3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:17:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCU00AAGPY1YP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:03:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9B05287 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:06:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 402AE2421 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:06:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257781CE1 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:56:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F5711CD9 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:56:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FBE38D3FD for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:56:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CD9CE8D3FC for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:56:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:56:54 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] THIS IS A MUST READ -- Simple and Potent Idea . . . am appology To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: FAF5D2A8-D8E5-11DD-9AA0-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: FC93E5B4-D8E5-11DD-B646-035910C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 I inserted the word FAULTY -- the dictionary defines faulty as "imperfect". I FAILED to mark the insertion as authored by me and apologize if it is misunderstood Dave Begin forwarded message: From: David Farber Date: January 1, 2009 5:03:45 PM EST To: "ip" Subject: [IP] THIS IS A MUST READ -- Simple and Potent and FAULTY Idea . . . Reply-To: dave@farber.net I would point out endlessly that regulation and law developed and mandated by people who do not understand the network technology will doom us all to third world status djf Begin forwarded message: From: Karl Auerbach Date: January 1, 2009 3:01:40 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Simple and Potent Idea . . . -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 3 10:35:51 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00C01JBNLA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:35:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00C01JBJL3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:35:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCV00E7KH78O6@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:52:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2610425C7B for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:55:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0B765 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:48:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3031463 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:48:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA861BA32 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:48:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A99001BA27 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:48:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:48:17 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Internet legislation impact To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <536C4396-9B00-496C-A1AF-F0CA426AF2E7@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 985991F4-D938-11DD-BD6D-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: A9DCFC86-D938-11DD-8F32-D6133BFACC5E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090102155822.GE28581@gsp.org> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Rich Kulawiec Date: January 2, 2009 10:58:22 AM EST To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] Internet legislation impact > "Failure of law to deter spammers shows limits of U.S. legislation > in a > world of global cybercrime" > > at > > http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/100608-can-spam.html Since CAN-SPAM is a *pro-spam* piece of legislation, supported by spam-friendly lobbying organizations such as the DMA, it's hardly surprising to find that it's been ineffective -- even when enforced, a rare occurence. It was *designed to be ineffective*. ---Rsk -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 3 10:35:52 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00C01JBNLA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:35:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00C01JBJL3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:35:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCW002AI2JQRP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:33:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F405D44 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:36:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED481468 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:36:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4843B2B91 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:31:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B2B52B8C for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:31:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A6B8C5DF for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:31:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7E68F8C5DE for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:31:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:31:16 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Internet Is Bad For You - The Daily Beast To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 47C6CC48-D979-11DD-846A-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 48D0C4EA-D979-11DD-8970-361D10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-12-19/the-internet-is-bad-for-you "Can Obama's plan for universal broadband turn the recession into a political nightmare resembling the 1930s? Yes, it can, writes the author of the controversial book, The Cult of the Amateur." -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 3 10:35:53 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00C01JBNLA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:35:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00C01JBJL3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:35:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCW006KM5XDAN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:46:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1472B25185 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:49:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3362D71A for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:41:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C57719 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:41:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 141451BA9A for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:41:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E109F1BA99 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:41:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:41:45 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Internet Is Bad For You - The Daily Beast To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 1EBE19B4-D983-11DD-9BD9-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 1FD66C5C-D983-11DD-AF25-BE32AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <3EA1F325-B269-48A1-A31D-44ADDFC58A61@kuhtz.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 I will repeat yet again. I forward articles that are intended to inform and often to inform readers of opinions that I disagree with but others will believe. djf Begin forwarded message: From: Christian Kuhtz Date: January 3, 2009 5:07:11 AM EST To: Farber David Subject: Re: [IP] Internet Is Bad For You - The Daily Beast Dave, that is one of the most ignorant and absurd articles I have read in a long time. Really surprised you forwarded it on.. I actually find it very offensive and fascist. For example, the 1930's propaganda machine was effective because it was state controlled media, squashing (almost) all dissent very effectively. Nazi access to mass media (beyond printing presses) wasnt really available until they had become the state. Not because of unregulated, open mass communications. That is horse dung and incredibly ignorant. On Jan 3, 2009, at 4:31 AM, David Farber wrote: > > http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-12-19/the-internet-is-bad-for-you > > "Can Obama's plan for universal broadband turn the recession into a > political nightmare resembling the 1930s? Yes, it can, writes the > author of the controversial book, The Cult of the Amateur." > > > ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 3 10:35:54 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00C01JBNLA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:35:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00C01JBJL3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:35:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCW002HFGZBJ0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:45:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC7E866 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:47:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5CC26B8A for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:46:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3196B85 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:46:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70548DA3B for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:46:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F7F18DA3A for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:46:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:46:18 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Creating a rogue CA certificate To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 485F71BA-D9A5-11DD-9CE8-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 49B12004-D9A5-11DD-AC36-90C12847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Adrian Perrig Date: January 3, 2009 8:51:58 AM EST To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] Creating a rogue CA certificate Dear Dave, Fortunately, we have developed a system that protects against the SSL/TLS attack recently discovered, our system called Perspectives is available as an extension for the Firefox web browser. The attack pointed out by Sotirov et al. is very serious: it enables an attacker on the network path between the client and server to mount a Man-in-the-Middle attack, that is, to effectively eavesdrop and alter "encrypted and authenticated" SSL/TLS connections. Just to be absolutely clear, an attacker can read your bank username / password when logging in if he can control the network packets (this is quite feasible through DNS-based redirection attacks, malicious access points, or in many wireless environments). Several other vulnerabilities exist in SSL/TLS, for example a CA's private key that is leaked, or a malicious CA root key that is installed by users through instructions received through spam email also enable Man-in-the-Middle attacks. To help users protect themselves against these attacks, Dan Wendlandt, Dave Andersen, and I have designed the Perspectives system at Carnegie Mellon University and CyLab. Perspectives is available as a Firefox extension. When the browser opens an https connection (and thus establishes an SSL/TLS connection with the web server) Perspectives contacts several globally distributed notary servers which keep a history of servers' SSL/TLS public keys. If the observation from the network notaries does not match the received server key, Perspectives warns the user. Perspectives is already in use by an estimated 30,000 users, and the code is stable. The Firefox extension works on Windows, MAC and Linux and can be downloaded and installed from: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~perspectives/firefox.html#install To ensure Perspectives detects these attacks, you must instruct it to contact notary servers for all HTTPS sites (not only for self-signed certificates, which is the default setting), even if your browser considers the certificate valid. Select Tools->Add-ons->Perspectives and then click on "Preferences", then select the "Preferences" tab, and finally select the option "Contact Notaries for all HTTPS sites" to enable such verification. The project web site is at: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~perspectives/ Technical details are available from our paper available at: http://sparrow.ece.cmu.edu/group/pub/wendlandt-andersen-perrig-usenixatc08.pdf Best wishes, Adrian > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Paul Robichaux > Date: December 31, 2008 9:22:23 AM EST > To: David Farber > Subject: FW: [ISN] Creating a rogue CA certificate > > Perhaps interesting to IP readers? > > -- > Paul Robichaux (paulr@3sharp.com) > Sr VP, Infrastructure Services > 3Sharp > 14700 NE 95th St, Suite 210 Redmond, WA 98052 > 425-882-1032 x7285 (v) 425-558-5710 (f) > MSN: paul@robichaux.net Twitter: paulrobichaux > > > ------ Forwarded Message > From: InfoSec News > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:08:14 +0000 > To: "isn@infosecnews.org" > Subject: [ISN] Creating a rogue CA certificate > > http://www.win.tue.nl/hashclash/rogue-ca/ > > December 30, 2008 > > MD5 considered harmful today > Creating a rogue CA certificate -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 3 12:20:11 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00M01O5KBA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00M01O5EA8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:20:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCW00GJHNL9C4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:07:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F073530E for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:10:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C3625ED for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:10:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5300A5A for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:04:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6568E59 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408961BAFC for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 057A61BAF1 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:04:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:04:06 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Internet Is Bad For You - The Daily Beast To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 88C0A626-D9B8-11DD-9EBA-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 89C9D984-D9B8-11DD-A002-E17AAB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090103165530.GB31247@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: January 3, 2009 11:55:30 AM EST To: David Farber Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Internet Is Bad For You - The Daily Beast Dave, The argument that universal, "unfiltered" and "unedited" Internet access in the current financial environment could lead to 1930s-style fascism and/or similar catastrophes, is so utterly inane that I have difficulty believing that Keen is serious with that pronouncement. The Internet has no monopoly on hate -- apparently Andrew hasn't spent time listening to much of the talk radio spectrum lately. His emphasis on the unfiltered nature of Internet content suggests that perhaps his real agenda is pushing for attempts at government-mandated Internet content controls -- extremely disruptive, ultimately ineffective, but obviously much more in line with the thinking of many misinformed politicos who are terrified by the open exchange of information empowered by Internet technology. It is precisely the control over information sources that is a key *foundation* of oppressive governments throughout human history. Thanks much for passing along the link to this item. It's important that we all are kept aware of the sorts of pap being peddled by the panderers of panic. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com - - - On 01/03 04:31, David Farber wrote: > > http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-12-19/the-internet-is-bad-for-you > > "Can Obama's plan for universal broadband turn the recession into a > political nightmare resembling the 1930s? Yes, it can, writes the > author > of the controversial book, The Cult of the Amateur." > > > ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 3 12:20:12 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00M01O5KBA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCW00M01O5EA8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:20:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCW00K1GNQ3ZM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:10:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7784B25D for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:13:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12532C95 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:12:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B789B2C8F for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:12:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D7351BA64 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:12:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 653241BA63 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:12:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:12:13 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] IPhone Unlocking -- a report To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: AA9E8D0C-D9B9-11DD-A91F-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: ABB9DA5C-D9B9-11DD-9401-6B8010C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 I tried the new software based unlock, yellowsn0w, for the 3G jail- broken Iphone and installed via Cydia. It caused me to loose network access on both the wifi and the cell paths. It was not consistent in that after rebooting, the visible problems changed. I was using the ATT Sim card in the test. When I deleted the software using Cydia everything worked again. Dave -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Jan 4 16:18:52 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCY00301TVDHJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCY00301TV9HE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCY00H1B0LXKK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 05:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DBA526B88 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 05:49:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587826C for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 05:43:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8F965 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 05:43:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.197] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n04AgX90023099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 05:42:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 05:42:32 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 7D81F0B4-DA4C-11DD-AA41-A51FBB716C86 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <0B06ADC7-4DE0-46B5-ABE3-856D4C1A1F25@saffo.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Paul Saffo Date: January 3, 2009 3:35:04 PM EST To: Paul Saffo Subject: Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of...=20=20 Trains! Oh, you just can't make this stuff up... an Amtrak photo contestant in=20= =20 the annual Amtrak "Picture Our Trains" contest is arrested by Amtrak=20=20 Police for taking a picture of... you guessed it!! -p http://carlosmiller.com/2008/12/27/amtrak-police-arrest-photographer-partic= ipating-in-amtrak-photo-contest/ Amtrak photo contestant arrested by Amtrak police in NYC=92s Penn=20=20 StationDecember 27th, 2008 By Carlos Miller Armed with his Canon 5D and his new Lensbaby lens, photographer Duane=20=20 Kerzicset out to win Amtrak=92s annual photo contest this week, hoping=20= =20 to win $1,000 in travel vouchers and have his photo published in=20=20 Amtrak=92s annual calendar. He ended up getting arrested by Amtrak police; handcuffed to a wall in=20= =20 a holding cell inside New York City=92s Penn Station, accused of=20=20 criminal trespass. .... In fact, he said, the only thing they told him before handcuffing him=20=20 was that =93it was illegal to take photos of the trains.=94 (snip) -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Jan 4 16:18:54 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCY00301TVDHJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCY00301TV9HE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCY00785BIS6S@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85712659C for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D36665 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:35:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95F7669 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:35:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F58C1BC36 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:35:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2F47D1BC33 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:35:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:35:25 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Phishing Scam Spreading on Twitter To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <438D8EEB-F139-49A0-9612-39C0C6C5AB77@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-63--630544958 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: ED508688-DA6C-11DD-809A-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: FBDD10EA-DA6C-11DD-9EFF-D3029963E510 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-63--630544958 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://chris.pirillo.com/2009/01/03/phishing-scam-spreading-on-twitter/ ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-63--630544958 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://chris.pirillo.com/2009/01/03/phishing-scam-spreading-on-twitter/

--Apple-Mail-63--630544958--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Jan 4 16:18:56 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCY00301TVDHJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCY00301TV9HE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCY00E3GNLEWN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:03:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5120547 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:03:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A471FD for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8D11FB for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:01:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284CC1BCA1 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:01:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E94FE1BCA0 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:01:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:01:33 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] WORTH READING The End of the Financial World as We Know It - NYTimes.com To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 1AD992AA-DA92-11DD-A7F4-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 1C8E66A2-DA92-11DD-A95A-D364AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/opinion/04lewiseinhorn.html?ref=3Dopinion Op-Ed Contributors The End of the Financial World as We Know It By MICHAEL LEWIS and DAVID EINHORN Published: January 3, 2009 AMERICANS enter the New Year in a strange new role: financial=20=20 lunatics. We=92ve been viewed by the wider world with mistrust and=20=20 suspicion on other matters, but on the subject of money even our=20=20 harshest critics have been inclined to believe that we knew what we=20=20 were doing. They watched our investment bankers and emulated them: for=20= =20 a long time now half the planet=92s college graduates seemed to want=20=20 nothing more out of life than a job on Wall Street. This is one reason the collapse of our financial system has inspired=20=20 not merely a national but a global crisis of confidence. Good God, the=20= =20 world seems to be saying, if they don=92t know what they are doing with=20= =20 money, who does? Incredibly, intelligent people the world over remain willing to lend=20=20 us money and even listen to our advice; they appear not to have=20=20 realized the full extent of our madness. We have at least a brief=20=20 chance to cure ourselves. But first we need to ask: of what? =20 -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Jan 4 16:18:58 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCY00301TVDHJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KCY00301TV9HE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KCY00E8NNS7WN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC44B24E for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:07:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934B06D37 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8A16D2D for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7FB51BCA2 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 76DC51BCA1 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:45 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Bill Richardson Withdraws Commerce Secretary Nomination To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <36B437C0-EDBC-46B6-AAE9-8276D91EF0A5@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-95--614325277 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: B3BFCCFA-DA92-11DD-AA1B-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: B5C842CA-DA92-11DD-A834-B11A2947B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-95--614325277 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/04/bill-richardson-withdraws_n_155098.html ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-95--614325277 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/04/bill-richardson-withdraws_n_155098.html

--Apple-Mail-95--614325277--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 5 11:03:21 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD0001019XISA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD0001019XFS5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:03:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD00075D2KUZI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:24:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2294826CFE for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:24:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCC96E for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:15:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 605B231B8 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:14:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.195] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n05DDavt005639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:13:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:13:36 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: Re: REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <61E27E98-9D3A-42A9-A14B-30838D3F57FC@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: FA3E119E-DB2A-11DD-9674-911FA0EB710D X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Jim Warren Date: January 4, 2009 6:27:30 PM EST To: Dave Farber Cc: Paul Saffo Subject: REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! I just forwarded the following tidbit - from Paul Saffo via Dave Farber's IP list - to you folks: > ... you just can't make this stuff up... an Amtrak photo contestant > in the annual Amtrak "Picture Our Trains" contest is arrested by > Amtrak Police for taking a picture of... you guessed it!! > > http://carlosmiller.com/2008/12/27/amtrak-police-arrest-photographer-participating-in-amtrak-photo-contest/ > > Amtrak photo contestant arrested by Amtrak police in NYC's Penn > StationDecember 27th, 2008 > ... But then I found access to it was "Forbidden" with a 303 error-code! So I asked Paul for any other source, and he pointed me to http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/ which DOES carry at least part of Carlos Miller's article as the 6th 1/4/09 item in the blog - along with lots MORE stuff that's even MORE "disturbing"! But now - NOW! - I find that that the carlosmiller.com line above, that was "Forbidden" (to me and two of the folks who responded to my initial message) is again AVAILABLE. At least as of 3:24 pm Pacific time today. Nice thing about the net - it's REAL hard to censor content, once it has appeared ANYplace. ;-) --jim -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 5 11:03:23 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD0001019XISA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD0001019XFS5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:03:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD0009IS3MH8C@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:47:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A725261D7 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:47:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D7B65 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A07169 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:37:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 375071BD99 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B3A221BD97 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:36:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:36:37 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: REVISION full article re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-174--547672799 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: E15FC390-DB2D-11DD-BD88-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: F1E391F6-DB2D-11DD-90AB-C5146B4CDBDE X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-174--547672799 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Begin forwarded message: From: "Paul Levy" Date: January 5, 2009 8:21:11 AM EST To: "David Farber" , Subject: Re: REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! the full article is here http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=77084.0 Paul Alan Levy Public Citizen Litigation Group 1600 - 20th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 588-1000 http://www.citizen.org/litigation >>> David Farber 1/5/2009 8:13 AM >>> Begin forwarded message: From: Jim Warren Date: January 4, 2009 6:27:30 PM EST To: Dave Farber Cc: Paul Saffo Subject: REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! I just forwarded the following tidbit - from Paul Saffo via Dave Farber's IP list - to you folks: > ... you just can't make this stuff up... an Amtrak photo contestant > in the annual Amtrak "Picture Our Trains" contest is arrested by > Amtrak Police for taking a picture of... you guessed it!! > > http://carlosmiller.com/2008/12/27/amtrak-police-arrest-photographer-participating-in-amtrak-photo-contest/ > > Amtrak photo contestant arrested by Amtrak police in NYC's Penn > StationDecember 27th, 2008 > ... But then I found access to it was "Forbidden" with a 303 error-code! So I asked Paul for any other source, and he pointed me to http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/ which DOES carry at least part of Carlos Miller's article as the 6th 1/4/09 item in the blog - along with lots MORE stuff that's even MORE "disturbing"! But now - NOW! - I find that that the carlosmiller.com line above, that was "Forbidden" (to me and two of the folks who responded to my initial message) is again AVAILABLE. At least as of 3:24 pm Pacific time today. Nice thing about the net - it's REAL hard to censor content, once it has appeared ANYplace. ;-) --jim ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-174--547672799 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Begin forwarded messa= ge:

From: "Paul Levy" <plevy@citizen.org>
Date: January 5, 2009 8:21:11 AM EST
=
To: "David Farber" <= dave@farber.net>, <jwarren@well.com>
Subject: Re:  REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested.= ..for taking pictures of...  Trains!

the full art= icle is here
 
 =
Paul Alan Levy
Public Citizen Litigation Group
1600 - 20t= h Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20009
(202) 588-1000
http://www.citizen.org/litigation
<= br>>>> David Farber <dave@farber.net<= /a>> 1/5/2009 8:13 AM >>>


B= egin forwarded message:

From: Jim Warren <jwarren@well.com>
Date: January 4, 2009 6:27:30 PM EST<= br>To: Dave Farber <dave@farber.net>
Cc: Paul Saffo <paul@saffo.com<= /a>>
Subject: REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for&n= bsp;
taking pictures of...  Trains!

I just forwarded the fo= llowing tidbit - from Paul Saffo via Dave 
Farber's IP list - to y= ou folks:

> ... you just can't make this stuff up... an Amtrak photo= contestant 
> in the annual Amtrak "Picture Our Trains" contest i= s arrested by 
> Amtrak Police for taking a picture of... you gues= sed it!!
>
> http://carl= osmiller.com/2008/12/27/amtrak-police-arrest-photographer-participating-in-= amtrak-photo-contest/
>
> Amtrak photo contestant arrested by Amt= rak police in NYC's Penn 
> StationDecember 27th, 2008
> ...

But then I found access to it was "Forbidden" with a 303 error-cod= e!


So I asked Paul for any other source, and he pointed me to http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/ <= br>  which DOES carry at least part of Carlos Miller's article as the = 6th 
1/4/09 item in the blog - along with lots MORE stuff that's e= ven MORE 
"disturbing"!


But now - NOW! - I find that th= at the carlosmiller.com line above, 
that was "Forbidden" (to me a= nd two of the folks who responded to my 
initial message) is again= AVAILABLE.  At least as of 3:24 pm Pacific 
time today.
<= br>Nice thing about the net - it's REAL hard to censor content, once it&nbs= p;
has appeared ANYplace.  ;-)

--jim




---= ----------------------------------------
Archives:
RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com=

= --Apple-Mail-174--547672799--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 5 11:03:25 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD0001019XISA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD0001019XFS5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:03:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD000E094SPGB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:12:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D7B604 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:12:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82ACF2FCC for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:10:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF982FC1 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:10:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB2C8D21B for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:10:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 278848D218 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:10:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:10:40 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: Re: REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <374075D0-AD31-43EF-B3A8-3597292054D8@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: A2980E2E-DB32-11DD-9CAD-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: A3A44E2C-DB32-11DD-AB2C-A77210C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090105132525.GA6902@hserus.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Suresh Ramasubramanian Date: January 5, 2009 8:25:25 AM EST To: David Farber Cc: jwarren@well.com Subject: Re: REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! So how likely was this to be censorship and how likely was this due to the carlosmiller site being farbered, slashdotted etc etc? -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 5 11:03:27 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD0001019XISA@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD0001019XFS5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:03:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD000EFQ5QQGB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8053A64C9 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:32:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C74B2890 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:32:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FFCE474 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:27:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5766475BF for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F74B8D3E7 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:26:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 088B98D3E6 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:26:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:26:18 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Any rumors re Obama's CTO To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <080B5922-3636-4E54-8251-B55CAA4EDF92@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: D19C7A00-DB34-11DD-AE7D-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 04C771C8-DB35-11DD-8C64-D0F8F9C9E69E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 NY Times says will be announced Wednesday. Any good rumors? -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 5 12:24:54 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000A01DPAUZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:24:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000A01DP4TJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:24:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD0004G6CZGGX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:09:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD0D75F for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:09:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92CF2EF9 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:06:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B522EF3 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:06:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC3A8D926 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:06:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 462348D925 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:06:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:06:11 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] 2 on rumors re Obama's CTO To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2F612ADD-E0CF-45F1-B4A6-DCB08C53E0FF@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 2859E434-DB4B-11DD-A352-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 29705330-DB4B-11DD-8918-F06210C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <3d2293e60901050735x30f3af9du3ec9e40fb1c33272@mail.gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Sarah Lai Stirland" Date: January 5, 2009 10:35:58 AM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Any rumors re Obama's CTO yes, there's been a lot of speculation for weeks that it could be Vivek Kundra, DC's CTO: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/04/AR2009010401235.html?hpid=moreheadlines His blog: http://vivekkundra.blogspot.com/ On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:26 AM, David Farber wrote: > NY Times says will be announced Wednesday. Any good rumors? > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: January 5, 2009 11:41:12 AM EST To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] Any rumors re Obama's CTO On 01/05 09:26, David Farber wrote: > NY Times says will be announced Wednesday. Any good rumors? Media has been ramping up on this one. Here is a UK Guardian article from a couple of days ago where Vint Cerf discusses his thoughts on what sort of person might be best suited to fill the job (and includes the statement by Vint that he had not discussed such a position with the Obama team): http://guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/jan/02/politics-obama-white-house Here's the BBC's speculative take, with an older list of proposed names, but including the now current addition of Steve Jobs to the list. They also note that the top interest of Web posters on the Obama CTO Website is Internet access and neutrality (of course, that's a self-selected survey). Second top topic was privacy and repeal of PATRIOT Act: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2009/01/obamas_cto.html However, Steve Job's current health is now admitted to be problematic: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7811857.stm I do agree with observers who have speculated that such a role might perhaps best be filled by someone who has significant high-level business operations experience, rather than someone more strictly from the academic or engineering realms. But the calculus in such decisions is complex, so it's anyone's guess at this point. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 5 17:04:51 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000E01QNZIU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:04:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000E01QNRIO@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD000B4UE2G3N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:32:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C4D9C6 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:32:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F126E for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:30:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBF9065 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:30:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28381BDC4 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:29:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56C851BD5B for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:29:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:29:49 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Universal Broadband's Potential Winners (CMCSA) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 74EBE916-DB4E-11DD-8BA9-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 84BB7E56-DB4E-11DD-9B47-DF5DF4628C3E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <1A14897D-E1AB-4590-A104-448A65273D73@warpspeed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: January 5, 2009 3:08:05 AM EST To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Universal Broadband's Potential Winners (CMCSA) Universal Broadband's Potential Winners (CMCSA) Silicon Valley Insider By Nicholas Carlson Lots of companies stand to benefit from President-elect Barack Obama's plan to create universal access to a broadband Internet. We've mentioned Kleiner Perkins-backed startup M2Z Networks, which wants the FCC to auction off spectrum for a free over-the-airwaves-Internet. The Wall Street Journal breaks down potential winners among telcos, cable operators and hardware manufacturers. Here's the Summary. How much these companies will benefit depends on how Obama's administration and the FCC ends up defining broadband. If the FCC decides broadband means download speeds of around 5 megabits per second, then cable operators like Comcast (CMCSA) and Time Warner Cable (TWX) win. Their cable modems are capable of reaching those speeds, while phone-based modems from the telephone companies are not. So the phone companies will want broadband defined as anything above 1.5 megabits per second. The Telecommunications Industry Association is also lobbying for a $25 billion grant. Sprint (S) subsidy Clearwire would also benefit from a slower broadband benchmark. Its WiMax download speeds range between 2 megabits and 4 megabits per second. Hardware-makers like Cisco (CSCO), Motorola (MOT) and Calix also would benefit from a stricter definition of broadband, because that would mean lots of Internet-service providers would have to upgrade old routers RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 5 17:04:53 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000E01QNZIU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:04:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000E01QNRIO@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD000B6KE5W3N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DD4A5B3 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:34:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8915813E for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:30:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB9113C for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:30:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 252C21BDE3 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D5ECD1BDE2 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:30:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:30:36 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Martin drops porn filtering from FCC free wireless broadband plan To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <39688076-77C2-4900-8AC4-4E09F1D2F747@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 9139E172-DB4E-11DD-9BF1-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 93170038-DB4E-11DD-BA57-377BAB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: January 5, 2009 3:13:57 AM EST To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Martin drops porn filtering from FCC free wireless broadband plan Martin drops porn filtering from FCC free wireless broadband plan Telephony Online By Matthew Lasar Kevin Martin, the Chair of the Federal Communications Commission, called Ars Technica today to let us know that he has revised his proposal to roll out a free (and smut-free) wireless broadband service. In an effort to corral more votes, Martin has already circulated a new version of the plan, one that removes the controversial smut filtering requirement. Why the change? "I'm saying if this is a problem for people, let's take it away," Martin said. "A lot of public interest advocates have said they would support this, but we're concerned about the filter. Well, now there's an item in front of the Commissioners and it no longer has the filter. And I've already voted for it without the filter now. So it's already got one vote." RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 5 17:04:55 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000E01QNZIU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:04:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000E01QNRIO@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD0006BJP6EQ8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:32:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359AA60DD for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:32:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18DF84671 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:26:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289392299 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:17:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31DB228D for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:17:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.195] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n05LH2Lw027165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:17:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:17:03 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Changing Tack, RIAA Ditches MediaSentry (WSJ) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--520047040 X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 3FDC3620-DB6E-11DD-8F61-365C10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-3--520047040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Begin forwarded message: From: "Ronald J Riley \(RJR Com\)" Date: January 5, 2009 3:20:10 PM EST To: Subject: Changing Tack, RIAA Ditches MediaSentry (WSJ) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123109364085551895.html?mod=djemTECH Changing Tack, RIAA Ditches MediaSentry By SARAH MCBRIDE In another sign of the music industry's recently announced retreat from a five-year-old antipiracy strategy, the Recording Industry Association of America has dumped the company it used to help it gather evidence for mass lawsuits it filed against people it claimed were illegally uploading copyrighted music. The RIAA long used a company called MediaSentry to troll the Internet in search of people who uploaded large amounts of music. The information that MediaSentry collected became an integral part of the RIAA's aggressive litigation campaign. Since 2003, the RIAA -- a trade organization representing Vivendi SA's Universal Music Group, Sony Corp.'s Sony BMG Music Entertainment, EMI Group Ltd. and Warner Music Group Corp. -- has sued around 35,000 people for what it says are illegal music uploads. Now the RIAA will be rid of a company that became a frequent target of civil-rights advocates and others who complained that the RIAA's legal tactics were excessive. MediaSentry is a unit of closely held, Belcamp, Md.-based SafeNet Inc. Ray Beckerman, a New York lawyer who maintains the Recording Industry vs. the People blog and who has represented more than a dozen clients fighting the RIAA, said he considered the decision to drop MediaSentry a "victory" for his clients. MediaSentry representatives "have been invading the privacy of people. They've been doing very sloppy work," he said. Mr. Beckerman cites MediaSentry's practice of looking for available songs in people's file-sharing folders, downloading them, and using those downloads in court as evidence of copyright violations. He says MediaSentry couldn't prove defendants had shared their files with anyone other than MediaSentry investigators. MORE: Write to Sarah McBride at sarah.mcbride@wsj.com ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-3--520047040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Begin forwarded messa= ge:

From: "Ronald J Riley \(RJR Com\)" <rjr@rjriley.com>
Date: January 5, 2009 3:20:10 PM EST<= /font>
Subject: Changing Tack, RIAA Di= tches MediaSentry (WSJ)
 
 
 

Changing Tack, RIAA Ditches MediaSentry<= /h1>

By SARAH MCB= RIDE

In anot= her sign of the music industry's recently announced retreat from a five-yea= r-old antipiracy strategy, the Recording Industry Association of America ha= s dumped the company it used to help it gather evidence for mass lawsuits i= t filed against people it claimed were illegally uploading copyrighted musi= c.

The RIAA long used= a company called MediaSentry to troll the Internet in search of people who= uploaded large amounts of music. The information that MediaSentry collecte= d became an integral part of the RIAA's aggressive litigation campaign. Sin= ce 2003, the RIAA -- a trade organization representing Vivendi&nb= sp;SA's Universal Music Group,=   Corp.'s Sony B= MG Music Entertainment, EMI Group Ltd. and Warner Music Group Corp. -- has = sued around 35,000 people for what it says are illegal music uploads.<= /o:p>

Now the RIAA will be rid o= f a company that became a frequent target of civil-rights advocates and oth= ers who complained that the RIAA's legal tactics were excessive. MediaSentr= y is a unit of closely held, Belcamp, Md.-based SafeNet I= nc.

Ray Beckerman, a<= span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> New York lawyer who maintains the Recording Industry vs= . the People blog and who has represented more than a dozen clients fightin= g the RIAA, said he considered the decision to drop MediaSentry a "victory"= for his clients. MediaSentry representatives "have been invading the priva= cy of people. They've been doing very sloppy work," he said.

Mr. Beckerman cites MediaSentry's p= ractice of looking for available songs in people's file-sharing folders, do= wnloading them, and using those downloads in court as evidence of copyright= violations. He says MediaSentry couldn't prove defendants had shared their= files with anyone other than MediaSentry investigators.<= /font>

MORE:

Write to Sarah McBride at sarah.mcbride@wsj.com<= /a>


= --Apple-Mail-3--520047040--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 5 17:04:57 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000E01QNZIU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:04:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD000E01QNRIO@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD0006DWPJGQ8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:40:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D49716571 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:40:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8AB54768 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:26:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE08122A3 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:18:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20863229B for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:18:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.195] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n05LH2Lx027165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:17:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:17:50 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: Re: REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3528B134-B124-4380-B12A-8B53B044C85D@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 585AB186-DB6E-11DD-9974-525E10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Jim Warren Date: January 5, 2009 3:34:14 PM EST To: dave@farber.net, "ip" Cc: Suresh Ramasubramanian Subject: Re: REVISION re: [IP] Amtrak photo contestant arrested...for taking pictures of... Trains! At 9:10 AM -0500 1/5/09, David Farber wrote: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Suresh Ramasubramanian > Date: January 5, 2009 8:25:25 AM EST > ... > > So how likely was this to be censorship and how likely was this due > to the > carlosmiller site being farbered, slashdotted etc etc? In retrospect, I suspect it may have been the system that's hosting carlosmiller.com that might have unilaterally imposed a temporary "Forbidden" 303 error, due to too many hits ... and if so, it was probably due to too many hits from Dave's diligent and always-curious followers. :-) However, the other alternative that was also mentioned, was the possibility that Miller might have, himself, blocked access to his own site, perhaps on "advice of counsel" ... perhaps until enough people contacted him saying he damn-well should NOT self-censor himself that way. Having seen both of these scenarios occur, these TWO alternatives DO remain worthy of periodic highlighting - lest either or both become even more common! --jim -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue Jan 6 07:11:18 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD100001TUMXX@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:11:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD100001TUEXM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:11:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD100GJS0VLWS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:45:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0AB1352 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:45:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CDC639B for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:43:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B322A6387 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:43:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CBEC8D870 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:43:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 40AEB8D86F for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:43:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:43:27 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Universal Broadband's Potential Winners (CMCSA) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <5B34AB6D-4CE8-4C4D-B212-35EAB3BF1E5D@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 6A926D92-DB93-11DD-9897-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 6CD481B2-DB93-11DD-A415-2DF82847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901060110.SAA27436@lariat.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Brett Glass Date: January 5, 2009 8:10:01 PM EST To: dave@farber.net, "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] Universal Broadband's Potential Winners (CMCSA) Nicholas Carlson wrote: > Lots of companies stand to benefit from President-elect Barack Obama's > plan to create universal access to a broadband Internet. We've > mentioned Kleiner Perkins-backed startup M2Z Networks, which wants the > FCC to auction off spectrum for a free over-the-airwaves-Internet. The M2Z plan is, hopefully, dead under the new administration. Its business plan simply doesn't work arithmetically; it's not possible to offer 768 Kbps to all comers, in 95% of the country, using the profits that can be made on the sliver of spectrum that would be up from auction. Backbone bandwidth and infrastructure are many times too expensive. > How much these companies will benefit depends on how Obama's > administration and the FCC ends up defining broadband. If the FCC > decides broadband means download speeds of around 5 megabits per > second, then cable operators like Comcast (CMCSA) and Time Warner > Cable (TWX) win. Their cable modems are capable of reaching those > speeds, while phone-based modems from the telephone companies are not. The devil is in the details here. Does this mean that the raw speed of the connection is 5 megabits per second, or that each user actually can GET 5 megabits per second 24x7? The latter is, again, simply financially impossible. > So the phone companies will want broadband defined as anything above > 1.5 megabits per second. Even this is too high to make universal deployment feasible if a high duty cycle is expected. With wholesale bandwidth costs at or above $100 per Mbps in many parts of the country, no provider could afford to meet such a standard. > The Telecommunications Industry Association > is also lobbying for a $25 billion grant. Sprint (S) subsidy Clearwire > would also benefit from a slower broadband benchmark. Its WiMax > download speeds range between 2 megabits and 4 megabits per second. Clearwire would have a different problem. While WiMax typically has a maximum speed of 6 Mbps, that's the capacity of the entire access point. If one user gets that much throughput, the rest of the users get zero... zilch... nothing unless the provider spends $2,000 on a second access point. And then, a second customer could saturate THAT one if allowed a 100% duty cycle. In short, without throttling throughput to an amount substantially lower than the maximum raw speed, no one could provide such coverage. Alas, most of the people who are attempting to set policy don't seem to recognize these limitations, because they're not familiar with the technology... and believe providers' "maximum speed" claims without understanding what they mean. --Brett Glass -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue Jan 6 07:11:19 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD100001TUMXX@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD100001TUEXM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:11:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD100MTP11WAX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7125EFAE for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:49:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5CA68 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:44:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E76BD63 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:44:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8D38D889 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:44:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 736E28D888 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:44:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:44:05 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Obama CTO To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-272--504025241 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 815881D8-DB93-11DD-B7CE-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 916B79EA-DB93-11DD-BA97-FF9708E02354 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-272--504025241 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Begin forwarded message: From: "John Ryan" Date: January 5, 2009 7:49:21 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Digest 1.1930 for ip For your consideration: Dave: in everything (or nearly everything) I've read about the Obama CTO, it's assumed, as implicit, that the T stands for IT. Need it? Should not a cabinet-level or cabinet-advisory CTO also consider biotech, energy, transportation, ... Thus, the apparently terrific Washington IT guy might be qualified as a CITO, but come on folks, as much as I like IT, surely we're missing some of the picture. Shouldn't the CTO also, like many CTOs in 'real life' have to look at what technologies to invest in strategically? And a national IP (not Internet Protocol but Intellectual Property) policy? These are larger issues than 'just' IT. John Ryan (COO Pixel Qi, but that's not why I'm writing) jpr@pixelqi.com ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-272--504025241 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Begin forwarded messa= ge:

Date: January 5, 2009 7:49:21 PM E= ST
Subject: Re: [IP] Digest 1.1930 fo= r ip

For = your consideration:

Dave: in everything (or nearly everything) I've = read about the Obama CTO, it's assumed, as implicit, that the T stands for = IT. Need it? Should not a cabinet-level or cabinet-advisory CTO also consid= er biotech, energy, transportation, ...
Thus, the apparently terrific = Washington IT guy might be qualified as a CITO, but come on folks, as much = as I like IT, surely we're missing some of the picture. Shouldn't the CTO a= lso, like many CTOs in 'real life' have to look at what technologies to inv= est in strategically? And a national IP (not Internet Protocol but Intellec= tual Property) policy? These are larger issues than 'just' IT.

John= Ryan
(COO Pixel Qi, but that's not why I'm writing)
jpr@pixelqi.com

= --Apple-Mail-272--504025241--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue Jan 6 07:11:20 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD100001TUMXX@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD100001TUEXM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:11:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD100F5TPIXCU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:37:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F28D67F9 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2AD3B73 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D27C351E for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:33:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35962350E for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:33:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E50D61BDCA for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:33:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 853BB1BDC4 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:33:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:33:04 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] FCC Chair Drops Internet Filter Plan -- And Words from the Smothers Brothers To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 67F399AE-DBDD-11DD-8E4A-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 69054658-DBDD-11DD-9713-4A3F10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901060538.n065cqwt023780@chrome.vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: January 6, 2009 12:38:52 AM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: lauren@vortex.com Subject: FCC Chair Drops Internet Filter Plan -- And Words from the Smothers Brothers FCC Chair Drops Internet Filter Plan -- And Words from the Smothers Brothers http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000488.html Greetings. You may recall that a few months ago in "Addams Family or Ned Flanders? The FCC Internet Censorship Battle Heats Up" ( http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000442.html), I lambasted an FCC plan for government-mandated morality filtering (that is, censorship) of a proposed new free, nationwide wireless Internet service. Now comes word that FCC Chairman Kevin Martin, the prime mover of the plan, has -- in an explicit attempt to get other FCC commissioners to sign on to the proposal -- dropped the filtering requirement ( http://tinyurl.com/fcc-wireless-censor ). Of course, this doesn't mean that if the proposed service is ever approved and built, that the firm or firms involved won't choose on their own to impose filtering. And the FCC could also once again decide to go down the incredibly inappropriate filtering/censorship route. But it appears that Martin has at least come into sync with reality on this issue, for the moment anyway. In the never ending battle between freedom of speech and those persons who would suppress the open flow of information, there have been many perhaps unlikely champions over the years. Those of you old enough to remember the Smothers Brothers and their groundbreaking CBS television show around 40 (!) years ago, will probably recall the very public censorship battles the brothers fought against CBS (who ultimately pulled them from the air over these disputes, then lost a federal breach of contract lawsuit that the brothers subsequently filed). Tommy Smothers, whose character persona (180 degrees from his real personality) was of the "dumb" brother, was actually the mover and shaker of the pair. In this very short (less than one minute) video clip, Tommy recently explained his concept of "Freedom to Hear" -- without which he suggests (and I agree) that Freedom of Speech can be rendered essentially impotent ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8biC_T1Rok ). The Smothers Brothers' censorship battles took place in an era when the three major commercial U.S. television networks pretty much ruled the broadcast media landscape in this country -- seemingly a very different situation than today. Yet censorship is still censorship, throughout the ages and across the broad span of technological innovations. The names and details vary, but the goals of those who would censor remain quite familiar, and the preservation of fundamental civil liberties will always require a continuing battle against censorship in its various forms and guises. When it comes to freedom of speech and freedom to hear, the more things change, the more they really do stay the same. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue Jan 6 16:33:14 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD200901JV91H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:33:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD200901JV61C@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:33:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD10060ZZFDWK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E88B527DCE for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:11:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABBC8DBC for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:57:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D931DBB for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:57:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.195] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n06Dvpxc006510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:57:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:57:53 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: FCC Chair Drops Internet Filter Plan -- And Words from the Smothers Brothers To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <4123C35C-5AEE-43CB-BDE8-BE4467DBC422@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5--459996404 X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 04DC456A-DBFA-11DD-B551-B406AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-5--459996404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Begin forwarded message: From: "Mary Shaw" Date: January 6, 2009 8:44:38 AM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] FCC Chair Drops Internet Filter Plan -- And Words from the Smothers Brothers Dave, Among the gems that lurk in the Carnegie Mellon University Policies, one of my favorite is the policy on controversial speakers, found at http://www.cmu.edu/policies/documents/FreeSpeech.html It says in part, Carnegie Mellon University values the freedoms of speech, thought, expression and assembly - in themselves and as part of our core educational and intellectual mission. If individuals are to cherish freedom, they must experience it. The very concept of freedom assumes that people usually choose wisely from a range of available ideas and that the range and implications of ideas cannot be fully understood unless we hold vital our rights to know, to express, and to choose. [[snip]] When guests are invited by a recognized campus organization, they may express their ideas not because they have a right to do so, but because members of the campus community have a right to hear, see, and experience diverse intellectual and creative inquiry. Defending that right is a fundamental obligation of the university. Controversy cannot be permitted to abridge the freedoms of speech, thought, expression or assembly. They are not matters of convenience, but of necessity. [[snip]] In context, the "not because they have a right to do so" means that as a private university we do not offer an arena for anyone who wants to demand our attention, but that we (the individuals and campus organizations) can invite speakers who might be controversial but who we want to hear. The city has many public areas where anyone can speak out, including public sidewalks in front of campus buildings. Mary Shaw On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 5:33 AM, David Farber wrote: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: January 6, 2009 12:38:52 AM EST [[snip]] Tommy Smothers, whose character persona (180 degrees from his real personality) was of the "dumb" brother, was actually the mover and shaker of the pair. In this very short (less than one minute) video clip, Tommy recently explained his concept of "Freedom to Hear" -- without which he suggests (and I agree) that Freedom of Speech can be rendered essentially impotent ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8biC_T1Rok ). [[snip]] ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-5--459996404 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Begin forwarded messa= ge:

From: "Mary Shaw" <mary.shaw@gmail.com>
Date: January 6, 2009 8:44:38 AM EST
Subject: Re: [IP] FCC Chair Drops Internet Fi= lter Plan -- And Words from the Smothers Brothers

Dave,

Among the gems that l= urk in the Carnegie Mellon University Policies, one of my favorite is the p= olicy on controversial speakers, found at http://www.cmu.edu/policies/documents/Free= Speech.html

It says in part,

Carnegie Mellon University v= alues the freedoms of speech, thought, expression and assembly - in themsel= ves and as part of our core educational and intellectual mission. If indivi= duals are to cherish freedom, they must experience it. The very concept of = freedom assumes that people usually choose wisely from a range of available= ideas and that the range and implications of ideas cannot be fully underst= ood unless we hold vital our rights to know, to express, and to choose. [[s= nip]]  When guests are invited by a recognized campus organization, th= ey may express their ideas not because they have a right to do so, but beca= use members of the campus community have a right to hear, see, and experien= ce diverse intellectual and creative inquiry. Defending that right is a fun= damental obligation of the university. Controversy cannot be permitted to a= bridge the freedoms of speech, thought, expression or assembly. They are no= t matters of convenience, but of necessity. [[snip]]

In context, th= e "not because they have a right to do so" means that as a private universi= ty we do not offer an arena for anyone who wants to demand our attention, b= ut that we (the individuals and campus organizations) can invite speakers w= ho might be controversial but who we want to hear. The city has many public= areas where anyone can speak out, including public sidewalks in front of c= ampus buildings.

Mary Shaw


On= Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 5:33 AM, David Farber <dave@farber.net> wrote:

From: Lauren Weinstein = <lauren@vortex.co= m>
Date: January 6, 2009 12:38:52 AM EST 

[[snip]]
Tommy S= mothers, whose character persona (180 degrees from his real
personality= ) was of the "dumb" brother, was actually the mover and
shaker of the p= air.  In this very short (less than one minute) video
clip, Tommy = recently explained his concept of "Freedom to Hear" --
without which he= suggests (and I agree) that Freedom of Speech can be
rendered essentia= lly impotent
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DZ8biC_T1Rok ).
[[snip]]


= --Apple-Mail-5--459996404--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue Jan 6 16:33:17 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD200901JV91H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:33:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD200901JV61C@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:33:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD200OARHE1EJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:39:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28EB92689A for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:39:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C6C63 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:44:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5435F for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:44:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF918E5DC for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:43:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D2C998E5DB for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:43:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:43:48 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Obama CTO To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <65E07362-7228-4FF5-BF29-716ABF8CE5D6@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-407--439241528 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 574CE392-DC2A-11DD-A637-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 68946BF2-DC2A-11DD-8735-CFD04EE84AFA X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <63EEA1034C8EF14ABF56503CDC9A646E740D76@SUEXCL-03.ad.syr.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-407--439241528 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Begin forwarded message: From: Lee W McKnight Date: January 6, 2009 11:30:28 AM EST To: Subject: RE: [IP] Re: Obama CTO David: For your consideration: The IT assumption is reasonable. Since the Federal Government is (mainly) an information processing engine, the most broadly relevant tech expertise for a federal CTO is IT. Anything else matters to a narrower slice of executive branch agencies. It could well be that someone with a background in another technical area is also good at IT, and hence suitable. But if you can;t make huge (and hugely inefficient) information engines run better then please do not apply. Lee -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Mon 1/5/2009 8:44 PM To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: Obama CTO Begin forwarded message: From: "John Ryan" Date: January 5, 2009 7:49:21 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Digest 1.1930 for ip For your consideration: Dave: in everything (or nearly everything) I've read about the Obama CTO, it's assumed, as implicit, that the T stands for IT. Need it? Should not a cabinet-level or cabinet-advisory CTO also consider biotech, energy, transportation, ... Thus, the apparently terrific Washington IT guy might be qualified as a CITO, but come on folks, as much as I like IT, surely we're missing some of the picture. Shouldn't the CTO also, like many CTOs in 'real life' have to look at what technologies to invest in strategically? And a national IP (not Internet Protocol but Intellectual Property) policy? These are larger issues than 'just' IT. John Ryan (COO Pixel Qi, but that's not why I'm writing) jpr@pixelqi.com ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-407--439241528 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=winmail.dat Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; x-unix-mode=0666; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhMQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcA GAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEE gAEAGQAAAFJFOiBbSVBdIFJlOiAgIE9iYW1hIENUTwCZBgEFgAMADgAAANkH AQAGAAsAHgAcAAIALgEBIIADAA4AAADZBwEABgALACMAEgACACkBAQmAAQAh AAAANEZGQUE5NEM4QTNCQUQ0MDg5ODBGMTlBMjdFQkQ3NUIAdQcBA5AGAKQM AAA5AAAAAwAmAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAEG9UVHHDJAR4APQABAAAABQAA AFJFOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAA8AAAAYz1VUzthPSA7cD1TeXJhY3VzZSBVbml2 ZXJzO2w9U1VFWENMLTAzLTA5MDEwNjE2MzUxOFotMTM0NDUAHgBJAAEAAAAV AAAAW0lQXSBSZTogICBPYmFtYSBDVE8AAAAAQABOAIBgB0Kgb8kBHgBaAAEA AAANAAAARGF2aWQgRmFyYmVyAAAAAAIBWwABAAAAOgAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQ GZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAERhdmlkIEZhcmJlcgBTTVRQAGRhdmVAZmFyYmVyLm5l 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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:32:31 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Obama to announce new position To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <17D21F95-B006-4E30-B29D-11B31FF8445D@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 1393F416-DC5B-11DD-BD63-CF5010C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Bill Daul Date: January 6, 2009 8:07:35 PM EST To: Dave Farber Subject: Obama to announce new position http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/ From Ed Henry CNN WASHINGTON (CNN) - President-elect Barack Obama on Wednesday will announce his selection for the role of "chief performance officer," a newly created position that will work to scrub the federal budget and reform government, a Democratic official told CNN. The person will "help put us on a path to fiscal discipline," the official said. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jan 7 14:12:48 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180YO9@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180N86@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD200KXJV40HA@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:36:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B4B7E1 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D37887E30 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:34:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6B27E27 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.195] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n071XmUU002990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:34:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:34:22 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Re: Obama CTO To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <550CCF5D-3F05-4F02-968A-324A5E5C2F4A@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5--418208024 X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 512EC6DE-DC5B-11DD-AA06-E3222947B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <63EEA1034C8EF14ABF56503CDC9A646E740D7C@SUEXCL-03.ad.syr.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-5--418208024 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Begin forwarded message: From: Lee W McKnight Date: January 6, 2009 6:46:58 PM EST To: , Cc: "ip" , "John Ryan" Subject: RE: [IP] Re: Obama CTO Dave, Again for IP: John Holdren, Obama's nominee as Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy, and a well regarded physicist also expert on energy, environment among other topics is an excellent choice to play the (hopefully more empowered role in an Obama administration) of keeping overll federal policies fact ie science-based and forward- looking. A CTO in an information business helps set the technology direction for a company, and spots new opportunities for revenue growth and cost saving. For the Federal Government, we should all be happy if the technology to make the information engine run better and faster, and who knows maybe even cheaper, can be found and implemented. Including new investments in a wide range of technologies (far beyond IT I agree.) So again. in the mega-info engine of the fed government, a CTO better add value to that engine, or find a different job. The science and technology advisor post is already taken. But Dave does have a good point, the complementarity and hopefully good teamwork of the CTO and the Science Advisor will be a key question if this new CTO post is going to pay dividends for us all. Lee -----Original Message----- From: Dave CROCKER [mailto:dhc2@dcrocker.net] Sent: Tue 1/6/2009 4:43 PM To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip; Lee W McKnight; John Ryan Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Obama CTO Dave, The direction this thread has gone underscores the need to distinguish between a role that is "chief of government internal technologies" versus "chief of technology advice for government policy". The former has an internal focus, while the latter is external. Having the internal job be highly biased toward IT probably makes sense, as long as "IT" combines computing, networking and telecommunications. Having the chief technical adviser for US policy development involving research, industry, trade, finance, etc., etc., be biased towards IT would be a rather serious mistake. It not sufficient, for example, to cover much of the work on 'green' or biotech. Around high tech companies, this confusion of roles is common, since a company needs someone to run IT and someone to be insightful about product directions. My own hope is that Obama chooses someone for advising on the development of government policies, rather than government IT. The latter is important, of course, but the pressing need for the country is intelligent technology advise about new, controversial and essential directions in policy. It takes considerable skill to ferret out core issues and tradeoffs in these choices, and that requires someone with a broad understanding of complex systems issues that can combine multiple technical topics. IT is part of that. But only part. d/ David Farber wrote: > From: Lee W McKnight > > The IT assumption is reasonable. Since the Federal Government is > (mainly) an information processing engine, the most broadly relevant > tech expertise for a federal CTO is IT. > -----Original Message----- > From: "John Ryan" > > Dave: in everything (or nearly everything) I've read about the Obama > CTO, it's assumed, as implicit, that the T stands for IT. Need it? > Should not a cabinet-level or cabinet-advisory CTO also consider > biotech, energy, transportation, ... -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-5--418208024 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Begin forwarded messa= ge:

From: Lee W McKnight <lmcknigh@syr.edu>
Date: January 6, 2009 6:46:58 PM EST
=
Subject: RE: [IP] Re:     Obama CTO

Dave,

Again for IP:

John Holdre= n, Obama's nominee as Director of the Office of Science and Technology Poli= cy, and a well regarded physicist also expert on energy, environment among = other topics is an excellent choice to play the (hopefully more empowered r= ole in an Obama administration) of keeping overll federal policies fact ie = science-based and forward-looking.

A CTO in an information busines= s helps set the technology direction for a company, and spots new opportuni= ties for revenue growth and cost saving. For the Federal Government, we sho= uld all be happy if the technology to make the information engine run bette= r and faster, and who knows maybe even cheaper, can be found and implemente= d.   Including new investments in a wide range of technologies (f= ar beyond IT I agree.)

So again. in the mega-info engine of the fe= d government, a CTO better add value to that engine, or find a different jo= b.  The science and technology advisor post is already taken. 
But Dave does have a good point, the complementarity and hopefully g= ood teamwork of the CTO and the Science Advisor will be a key question if t= his new CTO post is going to pay dividends for us all. 

Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave CROCKER [mailto:dhc2@dcrocker.net]
Sent: Tue 1/6/2= 009 4:43 PM
To: dave@farber.net<= br> Cc: ip; Lee W McKnight; John Ryan
Subject: Re: [IP] Re:  =    Obama CTO

Dave,

The direction this thread ha= s gone underscores the need to distinguish between a
role that is
<= br>     "chief of government internal technologies"

= versus

   "chief of technology advice for government po= licy".

The former has an internal focus, while the latter is exter= nal.

Having the internal job be highly biased toward IT probably m= akes sense, as long
as "IT" combines computing, networking and telecomm= unications.

Having the chief technical adviser for US policy devel= opment involving research,
industry, trade, finance, etc., etc., be bia= sed towards IT would be a rather
serious mistake.  It not sufficie= nt, for example, to cover much of the work on
'green' or biotech.
<= br> Around high tech companies, this confusion of roles is common, since a = company
needs someone to run IT and someone to be insightful about prod= uct directions.

My own hope is that Obama chooses someone for advi= sing on the development of
government policies, rather than government = IT.  The latter is important, of
course, but the pressing need for= the country is intelligent technology advise
about new, controversial = and essential directions in policy.

It takes considerable skill to= ferret out core issues and tradeoffs in these
choices, and that requir= es someone with a broad understanding of complex systems
issues that ca= n combine multiple technical topics.  IT is part of that.  But only part.

d/


David Farber wrote:
> From: Lee = W McKnight <lmcknigh@syr.edu> >
> The IT assumption is reasonable. Since the Federal Government is<= br> > (mainly) an information processing engine, the most broadly relevant<= br> > tech expertise for a federal CTO is IT.

> -----Original Mess= age-----
> From: "John Ryan" <john.conor.ryan@gmail.com>
>
> Dave: in everything (or n= early everything) I've read about the Obama
> CTO, it's assumed, as imp= licit, that the T stands for IT. Need it?
> Should not a cabinet-level = or cabinet-advisory CTO also consider
> biotech, energy, transportation= , ...

--

   Dave Crocker
   Brand= enburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net


= --Apple-Mail-5--418208024--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jan 7 14:12:54 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180YO9@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180N86@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD200L4PVH8ML@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:43:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B1E27445 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:44:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445083FD2 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:33:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2792B3FCD for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:33:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.195] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n071XmUT002990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:33:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:33:47 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Obama CTO To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 3CAFF62E-DC5B-11DD-8138-4D5610C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4963D09D.3020805@dcrocker.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Dave CROCKER Date: January 6, 2009 4:43:57 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip , Lee W McKnight , "John Ryan" Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Obama CTO Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net Dave, The direction this thread has gone underscores the need to distinguish between a role that is "chief of government internal technologies" versus "chief of technology advice for government policy". The former has an internal focus, while the latter is external. Having the internal job be highly biased toward IT probably makes sense, as long as "IT" combines computing, networking and telecommunications. Having the chief technical adviser for US policy development involving research, industry, trade, finance, etc., etc., be biased towards IT would be a rather serious mistake. It not sufficient, for example, to cover much of the work on 'green' or biotech. Around high tech companies, this confusion of roles is common, since a company needs someone to run IT and someone to be insightful about product directions. My own hope is that Obama chooses someone for advising on the development of government policies, rather than government IT. The latter is important, of course, but the pressing need for the country is intelligent technology advise about new, controversial and essential directions in policy. It takes considerable skill to ferret out core issues and tradeoffs in these choices, and that requires someone with a broad understanding of complex systems issues that can combine multiple technical topics. IT is part of that. But only part. d/ David Farber wrote: > From: Lee W McKnight > > The IT assumption is reasonable. Since the Federal Government is > (mainly) an information processing engine, the most broadly relevant > tech expertise for a federal CTO is IT. > -----Original Message----- > From: "John Ryan" > Dave: in everything (or nearly everything) I've read about the Obama > CTO, it's assumed, as implicit, that the T stands for IT. Need it? > Should not a cabinet-level or cabinet-advisory CTO also consider > biotech, energy, transportation, ... -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jan 7 14:13:01 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180YO9@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180N86@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD200O0NWHNG8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:05:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A677C91 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:05:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B20A835 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:03:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E30834 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:03:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E521BF78 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:03:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F392C1BF6C for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:03:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:03:03 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] JetBlue Passenger Forced To Cover Arabic Shirt Gets $240k From JetBlue, TSA Employees To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-474--416486727 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 52509034-DC5F-11DD-961B-EB51113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 535D3B08-DC5F-11DD-936F-EE3DAB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-474--416486727 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://consumerist.com/5125004/jetblue-passenger-forced-to-cover-arabic-shirt-gets-240k-from-jetblue-tsa-employees ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-474--416486727 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://consumerist.com/5125004/jetblue-passenger-forced-to-cover-arabic-shirt-gets-240k-from-jetblue-tsa-employees

--Apple-Mail-474--416486727--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jan 7 14:13:07 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180YO9@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180N86@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD200OO0XU11Z@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:34:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0365E26F28 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:34:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6F75F for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E788174 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:28:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3D788C68D for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:28:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CD138C68B for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:28:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:28:05 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] cto (my modesty almost made me not send this :-) djf) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <68D41EA1-F845-4FB1-BF04-5868465AAE2A@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: D15EE530-DC62-11DD-9EEA-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: E6E48BEE-DC62-11DD-B3E3-A42DBB85DE66 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49640CDA.9030305@kwic.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: martin cook Date: January 6, 2009 9:00:58 PM EST To: David Farber Subject: cto prof. farber is by far and away the best choice for this position. The only downside that can be seen is.. honesty. perhaps not an admirable quality for "political animal's".. =============== whoever "believes censorship to be an abuse has not understood. Without its tireless twin, self-censorship, censorship could not work... "Self-censorship outruns in elegance and shrewdness everything that the most vicious (censor) could imagine... Its target (often met) is the prohibition to think... Hans Magnus Enzensberger ======================= mc -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jan 7 14:13:16 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180YO9@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD400D0180N86@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:12:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD3001PN7JF2G@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:04:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E054D26077 for ; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8274230FB for ; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EB2630F1 for ; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530988DDB2 for ; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1D1BE8DDB1 for ; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:55:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:55:52 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Obama picks RIAA's favorite lawyer for a top Justice post | Politics and Law - CNET News To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-509--402517575 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: D8904480-DC7F-11DD-8AE6-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: D99AF69A-DC7F-11DD-A16D-E96710C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Apple-Mail-509--402517575 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10133425-38.html ------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-509--402517575 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10133425-38.html

--Apple-Mail-509--402517575--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 8 07:46:32 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD500001KTGIU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD500001KTCES@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:46:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD500M01DNLNM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:16:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD5002GNDUH2H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:15:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF9A67710 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:16:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF50C3A52 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:16:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 212B83636 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:11:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55AE3631 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:11:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3088E629 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:11:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C7AA8E628 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:11:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:11:10 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Obama supporters downplay CTO's near-term role To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Pobox-Relay-ID: AD79259E-DD6C-11DD-A1B2-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: AEA22E66-DD6C-11DD-A8D5-716B10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: January 7, 2009 3:12:17 PM EST To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Obama supporters downplay CTO's near-term role Obama supporters downplay CTO's near-term role CNET.com Posted by Stephanie Condon As supporters of President-elect Barack Obama in Washington try to downplay near-term expectations for his administration's chief technology officer, an Obama aide on Tuesday said reports of an imminent announcement are incorrect. With nearly of all Obama's cabinet named, recent speculation has swirled around whether news about the CTO post would be next, with one report saying to expect an announcement on Wednesday. The member of Obama's transition team, who asked not to be named, said that would not happen. Still unclear are key details: who will fill the role, and what, exactly, the CTO will be tasked with doing. One possibility is that the CTO could be involved with, or even lead, policy groups handling topics as wide-ranging as Net neutrality, health information technology, and cybersecurity. Another is that the job could be limited to overseeing federal technology efforts--an area that could certainly use some improvement. RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 8 15:13:50 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600J015IWH0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600J015INFT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD500B01NA71Z@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:39:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD5006QQNA7GP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:39:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A11A37365 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE5F417C for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 365593F41 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:35:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [208.72.237.25]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262783F3C for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:34:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 051401C13A for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:34:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B18C31C139 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:34:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:34:55 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] FCC Reform Website Now Open To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <7BBF58F7-0DC7-495E-81C2-E0B4DF2BB694@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 244A2DF0-DD89-11DD-9A0D-2E3B113D384A-04440718!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: 25EA40E6-DD89-11DD-8301-BD8B10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Gigi B. Sohn" Date: January 8, 2009 7:53:49 AM EST To: "David Farber" Subject: FCC Reform Website Now Open Reply-To: gbsohn@publicknowledge.org Dear David, Thank you for your interest in the "Reforming the Federal Communications Commission" project jointly sponsored by Public Knowledge and Silicon Flatirons, a Center for Law, Technology, and Entrepreneurship at the University of Colorado. We wanted to let you know that the website created as a follow up to the conference is now open at: http://fcc-reform.org The purpose of this website is to provide information and solicit *your* suggestions about what changes need to take place at the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) for the agency to restore the public's confidence that it will meet its legal obligation to promote the "public interest, convenience and necessity." On this website, we will post the papers related to the conference, including Phil Weiser's keynote paper, the panelists written responses to it, and former FCC General Counsel Henry Geller's April 1974 paper entitled "A Modest Proposal to Reform the Federal Communications Commission," which until now has never been available on line, and which clearly demonstrates that FCC reform is a topic whose time has come. The website also has a comprehensive bibliography of resources related to the topic, many of which were written by the conference panelists. Again, we are seeking thoughtful input from you, the public. Submit your own response to Phil's paper or any of the others. Provide brief comments or suggestions. Supplement the bibliography. Offer ideas on how we can continue to spotlight this issue. In short, we want you to become part of a conversation that will surely last well into the next four years and beyond. Thank you! Gigi Sohn President and Co-Founder, Public Knowledge Phil Weiser Executive Director and Founder, Silicon Flatirons Center This email was sent to dave@farber.net. You can instantly unsubscribe from these emails by clicking the link below: http://publicknowledge.cmail3.com/t/y/u/djtjiy/iytjldujd/ -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 8 15:13:53 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600J015IWH0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600J015INFT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD500H01OVH3S@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:18:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD500GFCP2HG5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:18:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE5D7AE1 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:18:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB18631B8 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:15:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com [207.106.133.19]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D1DE467 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:14:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907578ECAA for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:14:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (unknown [71.199.97.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5726E8ECA9 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:14:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:14:08 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Dean Baker: President-Elect Obama Suggests Defaulting on the National Debt To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 9E880A9C-DD8E-11DD-9A70-5720C92D7133-04440718!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com X-Listbox-UUID: CCF4D4B4-DD8E-11DD-ACB1-C9D12B2B072B X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 The Huffington PostJanuary 8, 2009 Dean Baker Co-Director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research Posted January 7, 2009 | 08:49 PM (EST) President-Elect Obama Suggests Defaulting on the National DebtPresident-elect Obama apparently believes that the crisis brought on by the collapse of the housing bubble will require defaulting on the national debt. The New York Times reported today that Obama believes that "changes in Social Security and Medicare will be central to efforts to bring federal spending in line." While Medicare is projected to face shortfalls because of the incredible inefficiency of the U.S. health care system, the Congressional Budget Office projects that Social Security will be fully funded until 2049 from its own stream of tax revenues and the U.S. bonds it holds. If Mr. Obama plans to cut Social Security in the near future, then this effectively amounts to a default on the bonds held by the trust fund which were purchased with workers' Social Security taxes. If the budget situation is so dire that it is necessary to default on the government debt, then surely we should be considering defaulting on the bonds held by Robert Rubin, Peter Peterson, and other wealthy bankers, not just the bonds that were bought to pay Social Security benefits for the country's workers. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 8 15:13:56 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600J015IWH0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600J015INFT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD6003010I5AN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:25:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD6000AQ0I5FP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:25:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5676E8E4 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB67F63 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:23:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0A85F62 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:23:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n08INH0P023997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:23:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:23:16 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] W3C Workshop on the Mobile Web, 1-2 April, Maputo, Mozambique To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_vF4YKVDhORUXzAEUWj+dRQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 6EB77654-DDB1-11DD-A938-6C0EAB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_vF4YKVDhORUXzAEUWj+dRQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: George Sadowsky Date: January 8, 2009 11:00:23 AM EST To: David Farber Subject: W3C Workshop on the Mobile Web, 1-2 April, Maputo, Mozambiqu= e Dave, In the interest of helping ICT penetration in developing countries in= =20 Africa, would you be willing to post this to the IP list? Your list = =20 has widespread geographical and topic scope. George ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE WORLD WIDE WEB CONSORTIUM Africa Perspective on the Role of Mobile Technologies in Fostering = =20 Social Development 1-2 April 2009, Maputo, Mozambique Hosted by the Ministry of Science and Technology of the Government of= =20 Mozambique ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/MW4D_WS/ ~=20 ~=20 ~=20 ~=20 ~=20 ~=20 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~~ W3C WORKSHOP CALL FOR PARTICIPATION The W3C Workshop on the =ABAfrica Perspective on the Role of Mobile = =20 Technologies in Fostering Social and Economic Development=BB aims to = =20 understand specific challenges of using mobile phones and Web =20 technologies to deliver services to underprivileged populations of = =20 developing countries, and to capture the specificities of the African= =20 context. More specifically, workshop participants will discuss the barriers fo= r =20 potential content providers (NGO/ grassroots, government, =20 entrepreneur, etc.) to develop and deploy services, and the barriers = =20 for the targeted population to access these services (issues around = =20 illiteracy, internationalization, accessibility, usability, etc.). TOPICS OF DISCUSSION The Web, and ICT in general, has been recognized as a great tool to = =20 potentially resolve the historical divides between developed and = =20 developing economies by providing an infrastructure to deploy minimal= =20 services (health, education, business, government, etc.) to rural = =20 communities and under-privileged populations. A new hope is coming = =20 with the very high penetration rate of mobile telephony in emerging = =20 economies. The challenges that the workshop will explore involve a = =20 coordinated approach from different fields, and different actors. Topics that might serve as appropriate discussion points for position= =20 papers include, but are not limited to: * Analysis of use-cases / real-world projects. * Challenges of integrating ICTs in rural communities. * Usability and Human-Computer Interfaces (HCI) challenges of mobile= =20 browser and mobile content. * Challenges and potential solutions against illiteracy. * Analysis on the way the mobile phones and/or the Web could improve= =20 people's lives in developing countries. * Comparison between different potential platforms to support ICT's = =20 deployment (mobile phones, low-cost laptop, telecenters, etc.). * Challenges of sustainability, scalability and replicability. * Challenges and opportunity of integrating mobile phones in specifi= c =20 domains: eGovernment projects (mGovernment), e-health projects, =20 disaster management, etc. WHO SHOULD ATTEND? Representatives from the following communities are encouraged to atte= nd: * ICT for Development experts * Academics from developed and developing nations * Field practitioners and NGO/grassroots organizations * Local entrepreneurs with experience in ICT services * Usability, accessibility and Web experts * Mobile industry and digital divide experts REQIREMENTS FOR PARTICIPATION There is no participation fee and W3C membership is not required in = =20 order to participate in the workshop. Because of the space limitatio= n =20 and to ensure relevance of interests, each participant must submit a = =20 statement of interest before February 12, 2009. In addition, each = =20 participant wishing to have a paper published on the workshop Web sit= e =20 and/or wishing to make a presentation during the event must submit a = =20 position paper abstract no later than January 12, 2009. More details = =20 are available on the workshop page at: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/MW4D= _WS/#Participation Authors will be notified of the decision of the Program Committee by = =20 January 25, 2009. All statement of interests, as well as selected = =20 papers will be made public before the workshop. IMPORTANT DATES * January 12, 2009 - Deadline for abstract submission * January 25, 2009 - Committee decisions and abstract selection * February 20, 2009 - Program released * March 10, 2009 - Deadline for full paper submissions * March 15, 2009 - End of sponsorship opportunity * March 20, 2009 - Deadline for registration * April 1-2, 2009 - Workshop WORKSHOP ORGANIZATION The workshop will be chaired by St=E9phane Boyera (W3C,Chair of the = =20 Mobile Web for Social Development group)and George Sadowsky. The Program Committee currently hosts: * Ken Banks, Kiwanja.net * Anthony Bloome, Peace Corps * Philip Hoschka, W3C * Michael Maltese, Legatum Center * Gary Marsden, University of Cape Town * Americo Muchanga, University Eduardo Mondlane, Mozambique * David Sawe, Government of Tanzania * Alice Wanjira Munya, Kenya ICT Action Network * Raul Zambrano, UNDP SPONSOR THIS WORKSHOP! This workshop offers a sponsorship program, as a marketing opportunit= y =20 that enables sponsors to showcase their organization and to =20 communicate to the community of participants, and to the industry at = =20 large, that their organization is a driving force within the mobile = =20 Web for social development community. There are three levels of = =20 sponsorship (Platinum/Gold/Silver) offering a wide range of benefits.= =20 For further information, please contact St=E9phane Boyera =20 (boyera@w3.org) and Marie-Claire Forgue (mcf@w3.org) before 15 March = =20 2009. Note: this sponsorship program is designed to enable =20 participation by individuals and organizations with particular =20 expertise, but who might not otherwise be able to attend due to trave= l =20 or other costs. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~ George Sadowsky george.sadowsky@gmail.co= m 2182 Birch Way george.sadowsky@attglobal.ne= t Woodstock, VT 05091-8155 http://www.georgesadowsky.org= / tel: +1.802.457.3370 GSM mobile: +1.202.415.193= 3 Voice mail & fax: +1.203.547.6020 Grand Central: +1.202.370.773= 4 SKYPE: sadowsky ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_vF4YKVDhORUXzAEUWj+dRQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: George Sadowsky <g= eorge.sadowsky@gmail.com>
Date: January 8, 2009 11:00= :23 AM EST
To: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
Subject: W3C Workshop = on the Mobile Web, 1-2 April, Maputo, Mozambique

Dave,

In the interest of helping ICT penetration in develop= ing countries in Africa, would you be willing to post this to the IP = list?  Your list has widespread geographical and topic scope.

George

~~~~= ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THE WORLD WIDE WEB CONSORTIUM

Africa Perspective on the Role of Mobile = Technologies in Fostering Social Development

1-2 April 2009,  Maputo, Mozambique

Hosted by the Ministry of Science and Techn= ology of the Government of Mozambique

=
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/MW4D_WS/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


W3C WORKSHOP CALL FOR PARTICIPATION

The W3C Workshop on the =ABAfrica = Perspective on the Role of Mobile Technologies in Fostering Social an= d Economic Development=BB aims to understand specific challenges of u= sing mobile phones and Web technologies to deliver services to underp= rivileged populations of developing countries, and to capture the spe= cificities of the African context.

More spec= ifically, workshop participants will discuss the barriers for potenti= al content providers (NGO/ grassroots, government, entrepreneur, etc.= ) to develop and deploy services, and the barriers for the targeted p= opulation to access these services (issues around illiteracy, interna= tionalization, accessibility, usability, etc.).

=
TOPICS OF DISCUSSION

The Web, and ICT in general, has been recognized as a great tool to= potentially resolve the historical divides between developed and dev= eloping economies by providing an infrastructure to deploy minimal se= rvices (health, education, business, government, etc.) to rural commu= nities and under-privileged populations. A new hope is coming with th= e very high penetration rate of mobile telephony in emerging economie= s. The challenges that the workshop will explore involve a coordinate= d approach from different fields, and different actors.
Topics that might serve as appropriate discussion points = for position papers include, but are not limited to:

*&= nbsp; Analysis of use-cases / real-world projects.
*  Challen= ges of integrating ICTs in rural communities.
*  Usabi= lity and Human-Computer Interfaces (HCI) challenges of mobile browser= and mobile content.
*  Challenges and potential solutions ag= ainst illiteracy.
*  Analysis on the way the mobile ph= ones and/or the Web could improve people's lives in developing countr= ies.
*  Comparison between different potential platfor= ms to support ICT's deployment (mobile phones, low-cost laptop, telec= enters, etc.).
*  Challenges of sustainability, scalability a= nd replicability.
*  Challenges and opportunity of int= egrating mobile phones in specific domains: eGovernment projects (mGo= vernment), e-health projects, disaster management, etc.
WHO SHOULD ATTEND?

Repres= entatives from the following communities are encouraged to attend:

*  ICT for Development experts
*  Academics from developed and developing nations
<= div>*  Field practitioners and NGO/grassroots organizations
*  Local entrepreneurs with experience in ICT services
*  Usability, accessibility and Web experts
*&n= bsp; Mobile industry and digital divide experts

=
REQIREMENTS FOR PARTICIPATION

<= div>There is no participation fee and W3C membership is not required = in order to participate in the workshop.  Because of the space l= imitation and to ensure relevance of interests, each participant must= submit a statement of interest before February 12, 2009. In addition= , each participant wishing to have a paper published on the workshop = Web site and/or wishing to make a presentation during the event must = submit a position paper abstract no later than January 12, 2009. More= details are available on the workshop page at: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/MW4D_WS/#Participation=

Authors will be notified of the = decision of the Program Committee by January 25, 2009. All statement = of interests, as well as selected papers will be made public before t= he workshop.

IMPORTANT DATES

*  January 12, 2009 -  Deadline for abstra= ct submission
*  January 25, 2009 -  Committee de= cisions and abstract selection
*  February 20, 2009 - = Program released
*  March 10, 2009 -   = Deadline for full paper submissions
*  March 15, 2009= -    End of sponsorship opportunity
* = March 20, 2009 -    Deadline for registration
*  April 1-2, 2009 -   Workshop

WORKSHOP ORGANIZATION

Th= e workshop will be chaired by St=E9phane Boyera (W3C,Chair of the Mob= ile Web for Social Development group)and George Sadowsky.
<= br>
The Program Committee currently hosts:

*  Ken Banks, Kiwanja.net
*  Anthony Blo= ome, Peace Corps
*  Philip Hoschka, W3C
*&nb= sp; Michael Maltese, Legatum Center
*  Gary Marsden, U= niversity of Cape Town
*  Americo Muchanga, University= Eduardo Mondlane, Mozambique
*  David Sawe, Governmen= t of Tanzania
*  Alice Wanjira Munya, Kenya ICT Action= Network
*  Raul Zambrano, UNDP


SPONSOR THIS WORKSHOP!

=
This workshop offers a sponsorship program, as a marketing= opportunity that enables sponsors to showcase their organization and= to communicate to the community of participants, and to the industry= at large, that their organization is a driving force within the mobi= le Web for social development community.  There are three levels= of sponsorship (Platinum/Gold/Silver) offering a wide range of benef= its. For further information, please contact St=E9phane Boyera (boyera@w3.org) and Marie-Claire Forgu= e (mcf@w3.org) before 15 March 2009= . Note: this sponsorship program is designed to enable participation = by individuals and organizations with particular expertise, but who m= ight not otherwise be able to attend due to travel or other costs.


--
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
George Sadowsky       = ;         &= nbsp;        &nb= sp;    george.sadowsky@gmail= .com
2182 Birch Way = ;                    &nbs= p;     george.sadowsky@attglobal.net
Woodstock, VT  05091-8155     &n= bsp;         http://www.georgesadowsky.org/
<= div>tel: +1.802.457.3370  &n= bsp;        &nbs= p;         =   GSM mobile: +1.202.415.1933
Voice mail & fax: +1.203.547.6020  = ;     Grand Central: +1.202.370.7734 =          &n= bsp;          
SKYPE: sadowsky

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_vF4YKVDhORUXzAEUWj+dRQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 8 15:14:00 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600J015IWH0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600J015INFT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:13:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600A011JUKF@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:48:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD6008901JUZT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:47:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1293227B21 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D575F for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:25:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F1D6E for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:25:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n08IPNBd013931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:25:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:25:22 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] A rare peek at Homeland Security's files on travelers To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_5Q3LU8LM51AZpIxBSap7TA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: C943285C-DDB1-11DD-BDE2-A75066144955 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_5Q3LU8LM51AZpIxBSap7TA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Bob Weber Date: January 8, 2009 10:01:18 AM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: A rare peek at Homeland Security's files on travelers For IP if you wish http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-24971907 A rare peek at Homeland Security's files on travelers Is this useful information, or a waste of time? By Sean O'Neill The oversize white envelope bore the blue logo of the Department of Homeland Security. Inside, I found 20 photocopies of the government's records on my international travels. Every overseas trip I've taken since 2001 was noted. I had requested the files after I had heard that the government tracks "passenger activity." Starting in the mid-1990s, many airlines handed over passenger records. Since 2002, the government has mandated that the commercial airlines deliver this information routinely and electronically. A passenger record typically includes the name of the person traveling, the name of the person who submitted the information while arranging the trip, and details about how the ticket was bought, according to documents published by the Department of Homeland Security. Records are made for citizens and non-citizens who cross our borders. An agent from U.S. Customs and Border Protection can generate a travel history for any traveler with a few keystrokes on a computer. Officials use the information to prevent terrorism, acts of organized crime, and other illegal activity. I had been curious about what's in my travel dossier, so I made a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for a copy. My biggest surprise was that the Internet Protocol (I.P.) address of the computer used to buy my tickets via a Web agency was noted. On the first document image posted here, I've circled in red the I.P. address of the computer used to buy my pair of airline tickets. (An I.P. address is assigned to every computer on the Internet. Each time that computer sends an e-mailor is used to make a purchase via a Web browser it has to reveal its I.P. address, which tells its geographic location.) The rest of my file contained details about my ticketed itineraries, the amount I paid for tickets, and the airports I passed through overseas. My credit card number was not listed, nor were any hotels I've visited. In two cases, the basic identifying information about my traveling companion (whose ticket was part of the same purchase as mine) was included in the file. Perhaps that information was included by mistake. [snip] ---------------------- Managing Director, Strategy Kinetics, LLC Mobile: +1-617-308-3336, eFax: +1-617-812-0443 AIM/Skype: BobWeberBOS www.strategykinetics.com ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_5Q3LU8LM51AZpIxBSap7TA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Bob Weber <robertw= eber@earthlink.net>
Date: January 8, 2009 10:01:18 = AM EST
Subject: A rare peek at Homeland Security's f= iles on travelers

For IP if you wish

http://= travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-24971907

A rare peek at Home= land Security's files on travelers
Is this useful information, or= a waste of time?

By Sean O'Neill

The oversize white = envelope bore the blue logo of the Department of Homeland Security. I= nside, I found 20 photocopies of the government's records on my inter= national travels. Every overseas trip I've taken since 2001 was noted= .

I had requested the files after I had heard that the govern= ment tracks "passenger activity." Starting in the mid-1990s, many air= lines handed over passenger records. Since 2002, the government has m= andated that the commercial airlines deliver this information routine= ly and electronically.

A passenger record typically includes = the name of the person traveling, the name of the person who submitte= d the information while arranging the trip, and details about how the= ticket was bought, according to documents published by the Departmen= t of Homeland Security. Records are made for citizens and non-citizen= s who cross our borders. An agent from U.S. Customs and Border Protec= tion can generate a travel history for any traveler with a few keystr= okes on a computer. Officials use the information to prevent terroris= m, acts of organized crime, and other illegal activity.

I had= been curious about what's in my travel dossier, so I made a Freedom = of Information Act (FOIA) request for a copy.

My biggest surp= rise was that the Internet Protocol (I.P.) address of the computer us= ed to buy my tickets via a Web agency was noted. On the first documen= t image posted here, I've circled in red the I.P. address of the comp= uter used to buy my pair of airline tickets.

(An I.P. address= is assigned to every computer on the Internet. Each time that comput= er sends an e-mailor is used to make a purchase via a Web browser&nbs= p; it has to reveal its I.P. address, which tells its geographic loca= tion.)

The rest of my file contained details about my tickete= d itineraries, the amount I paid for tickets, and the airports I pass= ed through overseas. My credit card number was not listed, nor were a= ny hotels I've visited. In two cases, the basic identifying informati= on about my traveling companion (whose ticket was part of the same pu= rchase as mine) was included in the file. Perhaps that information wa= s included by mistake.

[snip]

----------------------
Managing Director, Strategy Kinetic= s, LLC
Mobile: +1-617-308-3336,  eFax: +1-617-812-0443
A= IM/Skype: BobWeberBOS
 www.strategykinetics.com


Archives
--Boundary_(ID_5Q3LU8LM51AZpIxBSap7TA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 8 22:43:20 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600D01PU8AI@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:32:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600C01PU0XE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:32:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600D01LTCMG@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:05:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD600G4NLTCZ9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:05:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F39E4 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:05:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBAB2EEF for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:04:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035EFEEE for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:04:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0924Khb024469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:04:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:04:19 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <5879DF34-A243-4CCE-BC01-AC380FFB7F07@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: D67DD2DE-DDF1-11DD-A036-3E0CAB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090108221259.57759.qmail@simone.iecc.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: John Levine Date: January 8, 2009 5:12:59 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt I believe this originally appeared in TPM Cafe at http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/07/president-elect_obama_suggests_defaulting_on_the_n/ Wherever it was, it's nonsense. It is quite true that there is a large accumulated surplus from Social Security taxes, and that under the CBO's very conservative assumptions, the surplus won't be spent down for at least 40 years. Under more realistic assumptions, it'll probably be a lot more than 40 years, perhaps indefinitely. SS is no financial danger in the forseeable future. Nonetheless, the claim that SS changes would be equivalent to default on the national debt is absurd. Were SS benefits to be decreased, the surplus money would still be paid out to SS recipients, it would just be paid out later. There is a widespread misconception about Social Security -- despite a lot of smoke and mirrors to the contrary, it is not an investment plan like a 401(K), it is basically insurance. Its goal, which it meets rather well, is to ensure that Americans who worked will not die in poverty. The account stuff is to track whether you've worked long enough to qualify for benefits; the amount put in does not match what you get out and never has. There are no bonds in the SS surplus with anyone's name on them. What you get out mostly depends on how long you live after you retire. It's hard to believe that Dean Baker doesn't understand this, so I'm at a loss to fathom what he's trying to do here. Cutting Social Security benefits is bad policy and bad economics, but please, the issue is complex enough without turning it into a farce. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex- Mayor "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly. > President-Elect Obama Suggests Defaulting on the National > DebtPresident-elect Obama apparently believes that the crisis brought > on by the collapse of the housing bubble will require defaulting on > the national debt. The New York Times reported today that Obama > believes that "changes in Social Security and Medicare will be central > to efforts to bring federal spending in line." > While Medicare is projected to face shortfalls because of the > incredible inefficiency of the U.S. health care system, the > Congressional Budget Office projects that Social Security will be > fully funded until 2049 from its own stream of tax revenues and the > U.S. bonds it holds. > If Mr. Obama plans to cut Social Security in the near future, then > this effectively amounts to a default on the bonds held by the trust > fund which were purchased with workers' Social Security taxes. ... -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jan 8 22:43:30 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600D01PU8AI@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:32:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD600C01PU0XE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:32:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD6000018SOBN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:24:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD600LLM8SOQ7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:24:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F97F7DD2 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:24:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1EE490D for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:24:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91D7650 for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:19:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB98964E for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:19:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n08LJgiK019441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:19:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:19:41 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] WORTH READING A rare peek at Homeland Security's files on travelers To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <68B57132-C8AA-4626-A84B-B068185ED709@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 1447176A-DDCA-11DD-87C3-5A55AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <496654D5.60804@cavebear.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Karl Auerbach Date: January 8, 2009 2:32:37 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] A rare peek at Homeland Security's files on travelers David Farber wrote: > *Subject: **A rare peek at Homeland Security's files on travelers* It was odd that the person used the Freedom of Information Act to request records about himself. He ought to have used the Privacy Act. The two acts bear confusingly similar code numbers: 5 USC 552 vs 5 USC 552a. But that is about as far as the similarity goes. Agencies just love to conflate Privacy Act requests as if they were FOIA requests because the former is somewhat more stringent, has shorter timelines, and provides less agency discretion about if and how to respond. By conflating the two, agencies often cite FOIA grounds to delay or to refuse to disgorge information that they are required to promptly disgorge under the Privacy Act, and then to make things worse, they use FOIA rules to try to get people to pay fees for what the Privacy Act gives for free. If a person wants information about himself/herself the primary vehicle is the Privacy Act. FOIA can be also used but if it is it should be done as a separate request under a separate cover; otherwise the agency will almost certainly end up ignoring the Privacy Act aspect and treat the whole thing under FOIA. It is sad that people don't know the difference; it is sadder that we let agencies get away with this shell game; it is most sad that we have privacy laws in this country that are so shamefully weak as to be nearly vacuous. --karl-- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jan 9 15:00:42 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD700F01ZL2FF@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:00:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD700F01ZKZF8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:00:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD700101VXUV3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:41:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD700104VXUUR@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:41:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DCD3623 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:42:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C2FC87 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:19:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D484EC85 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:19:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.195] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n09IJR7p023803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:19:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:19:26 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Congress Should Delay the Digital TV Transition To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3947527A-0C55-4D9F-850E-E5B4343A9A6F@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 1056DA04-DE7A-11DD-B6BB-D516AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901081705.n08H5x2v017285@chrome.vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 For a year I have said not to hold your breath on the transition. Every one said -- no it is "no problem"-- hmmm djf Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: January 8, 2009 12:05:59 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: lauren@vortex.com Subject: Congress Should Delay the Digital TV Transition Congress Should Delay the Digital TV Transition http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000490.html Greetings. Ever since the "final" timing of the U.S. digital television (DTV) transition analog programming cutoff was announced for February 17 of this year, I have suggested that betting your life against another delay was perhaps a bit risky. Now comes word that a variety of interested parties are wisely pushing for just such a delay, but partly for a somewhat surprising and rather depressing reason ( http://www.wftv.com/digital-tv/18437037/detail.html ). My concern all along was primarily consumer confusion. Promos trying to explain the situation seemed to run more often on channels only available to cable and satellite subscribers -- who were much less in need of the information (since by definition they already had at least one set that would "survive" the transition). The key announcements seemed to show up much less frequently on broadcast channels where they were really needed. Even worse, much of the information that has been available has led to even more confusion among broadcast TV viewers, many of whom have been falsely led to believe that they needed to subscribe to cable or satellite to keep receiving broadcast TV signals. The available DTV converters are just plain confusing to many viewers, especially folks who have been watching the same old TVs with "rabbit ear" antennas for ages. Even if they get everything hooked up right, many people will find that their reception under the digital regime is unacceptable due to coverage variations and differing antenna requirements. And I wonder how many persons with digital televisions and converters realize that they usually have to trigger manually scans to pick up digital channel changes? Most of these problems could have been predicted. But now comes word that the federal program to help pay for converter boxes has run out of funds, being tied to the expiration of unused $40 converter coupons. Even if Congress bypassed the funding requirements today, the coupons can take weeks to reach people after their requests have been approved, and there's barely more than a month left before the February 17 analog programming cutoff for full power stations. There is also rising concern that FCC call centers will be swamped with confused (former) viewers starting at the deadline. While we can argue about the manner in which the more technical aspects of the transition have been handled, the mismanagement of the converter box coupon program is inexcusable. It didn't take a genius to figure out that there would be a rush of coupon requests near the cutoff date, and to run out of resources at exactly that time is utterly shameful -- and potentially dangerous as well. Many viewers could in theory buy converters completely with their own money of course, but given the current economic climate, it's likely that significant numbers would forgo getting converters if that were their only option. And cutting people off from all television in this day and age has enormous public safety ramifications. A month after the official cutoff date, even public safety announcements on the analog channels are supposed to cease. The entire DTV transition project has been mismanaged from the word go. While it's impossible to predict exactly how bad the picture will be after February 17th, simple prudence dictates that the DTV transition deadline be delayed until the coupon program can be realigned and better public information properly disseminated. I recommend a delay of six months to one year. I'm as eager as anyone else to see the new uses of the spectrum that will be freed up by the completed DTV transition -- but not at the cost of millions of people, often exactly those persons who most depend on a single old TV for their connection to the outside world, being left out in the broadcasting cold. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jan 9 15:00:43 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD700F01ZL2FF@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:00:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD700F01ZKZF8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:00:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD700C01YXV6N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:46:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD700597YXV3G@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:46:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57DDB7F67 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:47:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42EE141D9 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:47:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E747C4B for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:41:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C60E27C3A for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:41:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.195] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n09JfqeN014300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:41:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:41:52 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2128A1FC-D6A3-4033-AFCA-DD56F20E4959@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 92FE70BA-DE85-11DD-BDE3-05CC2847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901091722.n09HM5R15832@viper.oldcity.dca.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Bob Schmidt Date: January 9, 2009 12:20:01 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt Hi Dave for IP if you wish... -- Bob Good points by John. If you look at employment, what we see is approximately 148 million in the workforce today. Looking at baby boomers, I estimate approximately 2/3 will actually retire in their 60's - the rest will remain in the workforce in some fashion - and presumably continue contributing to social security to some degree. There are almost as many boomlet kids as there are boomers and there are 1+ boomlet kids graduating from college and entering the workforce for roughly every boomer who will retire, making the generational hand off essentially a wash. Thus the labor force and employment should remain steady at 148 million until around 2030 at which point it will slowly decline. There is a claimed social security shortfall of some $11 or $12 trillion through 2050. If you do the math, between now and then, $5 a day per employee essentially eliminates that shortfall completely. That additional contribution could be any combination of contribution splits from employers and employees to get to the $5 amount. 100/0, 0/100, 50/50, 60/40 - whatever. Not chump change, but we used to talk about giving up a luxury like Starbucks and you can see that if we each forego the equivalent of 1 pack of cigarettes a day, or one gourmet coffee a day, or a couple of ITunes downloads, we could essentially fund Social Security into perpetuity. Bob Schmidt Provider Marketing Group Orlando, FL At 09:04 PM 1/8/2009, you wrote: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: John Levine > Date: January 8, 2009 5:12:59 PM EST > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: Re: [IP] Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National > Debt > > I believe this originally appeared in TPM Cafe at > http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/07/president-elect_obama_suggests_defaulting_on_the_n/ > > Wherever it was, it's nonsense. It is quite true that there is a > large accumulated surplus from Social Security taxes, and that under > the CBO's very conservative assumptions, the surplus won't be spent > down for at least 40 years. Under more realistic assumptions, it'll > probably be a lot more than 40 years, perhaps indefinitely. SS is no > financial danger in the forseeable future. > -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jan 9 21:09:35 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD800I01GN1WE@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:09:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD800I01GMUW7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:08:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD8008015AAWX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:03:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD8007A05AADZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:03:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9BBA7387 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:04:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42B14965 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:04:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51AC742F3 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:58:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23CBB42EE for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:58:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.195] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n09Lwcdj019454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:58:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:58:38 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] History of the Internet (watch with a stiff drink djf) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <47B8DDD0-4B97-4C0E-A04B-7D50DE6C79DA@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: AEA0597E-DE98-11DD-84C3-AA8910C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <1fc32c8f0901091316u7069135fg904fe5bd521925fa@mail.gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Michael Slavitch" Date: January 9, 2009 4:16:05 PM EST To: ip@v2.listbox.com, dave@farber.net Subject: History of the Internet For IP if you wish. http://infosthetics.com/archives/2009/01/the_history_of_the_internet.html Someone's rather somewhat wrong interpretation of Internet history. I expect that IP people will have a say about this. Michael Slavitch Ottawa Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 09:20:40 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EIBV0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EI7UT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD800201LVVO9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:02:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD80024TLVVEE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:02:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE60750B for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:02:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13EE83133 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:02:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7741848F2 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:57:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D6348ED for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0A3upSh027447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:56:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:56:51 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Bell's and line counts To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2A0B3171-6E4C-4352-9C1A-F28274BE7ECE@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: B953FF6A-DECA-11DD-A628-E83610C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090110022853.97FD4241B8@panix5.panix.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "David Lesher" Date: January 9, 2009 9:28:53 PM EST To: dave@farber.net (David Farber) Subject: Bell's and line counts Prof F: The Bells have been whining that the number of phone lines being rented has been falling. That's a new experience for them; even during the {previous....} Depression, line counts didn't drop. An obvious explanation is increasing numbers of cellular-only households. A second one getting less notice: many households had 2nd or 3rd lines for dialup access; and they're being dropped in favor of broadband. But Bruce Kushnick has stumbled on another factor. Now, at least in the FIOS case, VZ requires you to surrender the copper feeding your POTS, and they cut it off to prevent future use. (The existing copper is regulated and may be rented by COVAD, etc; but not the fiber. Their executives, by the way, denied this coercion in a House hearing, then later sorta admitted it. ) I assume ATT is similar, but don't have personal experience with that. It appears than when you get FIOS [VZ] or U-Verse [ATT] service, and your friendly Bell moves your POTS service from copper to that media; they count that as a loss. If true, the number of "lines" may well not have dropped as much as they claim. I'm curious as to another issue: FIOS is deployed on both Bell-owned and electric company-owned poles; and in ducts. There's various tariffed rates for such sharing, and settlements between all the players, including cable companies. I have to wonder if unregulated FIOS VZ pays regulated VZ for such usage, and if so, at what rates? I suspect your experience at the FCC exposed you to the wonders of utility bookkeeping and rate bases. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? comes to my mind. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 09:20:41 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EIBV0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EI7UT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD9007012B5OL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:57:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900JK22B4JJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:57:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7A2ED7 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:57:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A081EA5 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:55:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B805A3 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:55:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0A9swUf010264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:54:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:57:20 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: History of the Internet (watch with a stiff drink djf) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <0B43F664-E085-45D9-9F18-80C184A830C1@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: BF90E8F2-DEFC-11DD-A0B1-A728AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <1231550097.0@marut.quarterman.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "John S. Quarterman" Date: January 9, 2009 8:14:50 PM EST To: dave@farber.net, "Michael Slavitch" Cc: "John S. Quarterman" , "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] History of the Internet (watch with a stiff drink djf) > http://infosthetics.com/archives/2009/01/the_history_of_the_internet.html I don't know which part is more amusing: the banking cloud that eats a human at the beginning, the attribution of remote access to air conditioning, or IMPs as interfaces to mainframes preceding the ARPANET, or.... X.25 -> gateways -> OSI -> TCP? Huh? So many mythconceptions to choose from! -jsq -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 09:20:42 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EIBV0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EI7UT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD9007012CNQI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:58:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900JKB2CNJJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F502550 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:58:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8415A8E00 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:55:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C338B8DFB for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:55:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0A9swUg010264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:55:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:55:17 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] WORTH READING Congress Should Delay the Digital TV Transition To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: CD629534-DEFC-11DD-8FC9-77DE2847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901100405.n0A45dw27296@mustang.oldcity.dca.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Bruce Kushnick" Date: January 9, 2009 11:05:44 PM EST To: Subject: RE: [IP] Congress Should Delay the Digital TV Transition Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EIBV0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EI7UT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900L0146880@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:37:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900JBN467LV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:37:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B310139 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:37:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3A469 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED887D6D0 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:35:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AAYwL4010600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:34:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:34:55 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt]] To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <1DD69470-9EDB-4B21-B803-19C94414D6D8@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_C5/+5lHxqnJyeuFXrmhx4Q)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 6A3A96C2-DF02-11DD-9E7C-8523E71063C4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <496819EE.7090205@verizon.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_C5/+5lHxqnJyeuFXrmhx4Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Dean Baker Date: January 9, 2009 10:45:50 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt]] Hi David, I had this note passed along to me. I have a couple of quick points: First, I can assure you I understand the finances of Social Security and I have no illusions about there being individual accounts with bonds. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. Social Security taxes were raised in 1983 with the explicit intention of running a surplus over the current needs of the system. Under the law, the surplus was to be used to buy U.S. government bonds. These bonds were to be used to pay for the costs of Social Security for the baby boomers' retirement. In the event that Congress substantially reduces benefits, so that the bonds are not used for the baby boomers' Social Security, then this would amount to a defacto default on the bonds. Of course it is not a legal default in that Congress created the law, therefore Congress can change the law. But, there is no reason that the workers who lose their benefits should accept this logic in the sense that we elect Congress. If the argument is that the country's fiscal situation is so dire that Congress has to default on the bonds held by the Social Security trust fund, then it is perfectly reasonable to demand a partial default on the debt more generally. Rather than having retirees accept a 100 percent default on the bonds held by Social Security, with other bondholders getting paid in full, why not have everyone get a 20 percent haircut? There would be enormous consequences for this sort of partial default on U.S. debt, but there should also be enormous consequences for defaulting on the bonds held by the Social Security trust fund. The elites would like the people who lose their benefits to just suck it up, but there is no reason that they should agree to do that. Since there are a huge number of people who would stand to lose benefits, and they vote in high numbers, there is no reason why they should not insist that their representatives in Congress take steps to apply the same sort of pain to bondholders more generally that the elites would seek to impose on them. This is not a legal question. It is a political question. regards, Dean -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Fwd: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt] Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:29:57 -0500 From: James Love To: Dean Baker -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: David Farber Reply-to: dave@farber.net To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 21:04:19 -0500 Begin forwarded message: From: John Levine Date: January 8, 2009 5:12:59 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt I believe this originally appeared in TPM Cafe at http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/07/president-elect_obama_suggests_defaulting_on_the_n/ Wherever it was, it's nonsense. It is quite true that there is a large accumulated surplus from Social Security taxes, and that under the CBO's very conservative assumptions, the surplus won't be spent down for at least 40 years. Under more realistic assumptions, it'll probably be a lot more than 40 years, perhaps indefinitely. SS is no financial danger in the forseeable future. Nonetheless, the claim that SS changes would be equivalent to default on the national debt is absurd. Were SS benefits to be decreased, the surplus money would still be paid out to SS recipients, it would just be paid out later. There is a widespread misconception about Social Security -- despite a lot of smoke and mirrors to the contrary, it is not an investment plan like a 401(K), it is basically insurance. Its goal, which it meets rather well, is to ensure that Americans who worked will not die in poverty. The account stuff is to track whether you've worked long enough to qualify for benefits; the amount put in does not match what you get out and never has. There are no bonds in the SS surplus with anyone's name on them. What you get out mostly depends on how long you live after you retire. It's hard to believe that Dean Baker doesn't understand this, so I'm at a loss to fathom what he's trying to do here. Cutting Social Security benefits is bad policy and bad economics, but please, the issue is complex enough without turning it into a farce. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex- Mayor "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly. > President-Elect Obama Suggests Defaulting on the National > DebtPresident-elect Obama apparently believes that the crisis brought > on by the collapse of the housing bubble will require defaulting on > the national debt. The New York Times reported today that Obama > believes that "changes in Social Security and Medicare will be central > to efforts to bring federal spending in line." > While Medicare is projected to face shortfalls because of the > incredible inefficiency of the U.S. health care system, the > Congressional Budget Office projects that Social Security will be > fully funded until 2049 from its own stream of tax revenues and the > U.S. bonds it holds. > If Mr. Obama plans to cut Social Security in the near future, then > this effectively amounts to a default on the bonds held by the trust > fund which were purchased with workers' Social Security taxes. ... ------------------------------------------- -- James Love, Director, Knowledge Ecology International http://www.keionline.org | mailto:james.love at keionline.org Wk: +1.202.332.2671 | US Mobile +1.202.361.3040 | Geneva Mobile +41.76.413.6584 -- Dean Baker (baker@cepr.net) Co-Director Center for Economic and Policy Research 1611 Connecticut Ave., NW Washington, DC 20009 202-293-5380 (ext 114) 202-332-5218 (H) www.cepr.net ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_C5/+5lHxqnJyeuFXrmhx4Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Dean Baker <dean.bak= er1@verizon.net>
Date: January 9, 2009 10:45:50 PM E= ST
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [IP] Re:   Dean Baker nonsense about De= faulting on the National Debt]]

Hi David,

I had this note passed along to me. = I have a couple of quick points:

First, I can assure you I u= nderstand the finances of Social Security and I have no illusions about there being individual accounts with bonds. However, this has= absolutely nothing to
do with the issue at hand.

Social= Security taxes were raised in 1983 with the explicit intention of ru= nning a surplus over
the current needs of the system. Under the l= aw, the surplus was to be used to buy U.S. government
bonds. Thes= e bonds were to be used to pay for the costs of Social Security for t= he baby boomers'
retirement.

In the event that Congress = substantially reduces benefits, so that the bonds are not used for th= e baby
boomers' Social Security, then this would amount to a defa= cto default on the bonds. Of course it is not
a legal default in = that Congress created the law, therefore Congress can change the law.=

But, there is no reason that the workers who lose their ben= efits should accept this logic in the sense that
we elect Congres= s. If the argument is that the country's fiscal situation is so dire = that Congress has to default
on the bonds held by the Social Secu= rity trust fund, then it is perfectly reasonable to demand a partial = default
on the debt more generally. Rather than having retirees a= ccept a 100 percent default on the bonds held by
Social Security= , with other bondholders getting paid in full, why not have everyone = get a 20 percent haircut?

There would be enormous consequenc= es for this sort of partial default on U.S. debt, but there should al= so be
enormous consequences for defaulting on the bonds held by t= he Social Security trust fund. The elites would like
the people w= ho lose their benefits to just suck it up, but there is no reason tha= t they should agree to do that. Since
there are a huge number of = people who would stand to lose benefits, and they vote in high number= s, there is no
reason why they should not insist that their repr= esentatives in Congress take steps to apply the same sort of pain to =
bondholders more generally that the elites would seek to impose = on them.

This is not a legal question. It is a political qu= estion.

regards,

Dean





=
-------- Original Message -------- Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:29:57 -0500 James Love <james.love@keionline.org> =
Subject: [Fwd: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about = Defaulting on the National Debt]
Date:
From:
= To: Dean Baker <baker@cepr.net> 


-------- Forwarded Message --------
=46rom: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
Reply-to: dave@farber.net
To: ip <ip@v2.listbox.com>
Subject: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the Nationa=
l
Debt
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 21:04:19 -0500


Begin forwarded message:

=46rom: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
Date: January 8, 2009 5:12:59 PM EST
To: dave@farber.net
Subject: Re: [IP] Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the Nationa=
l =20
Debt

I believe this originally appeared in TPM Cafe at
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/07/president-elect=
_obama_suggests_defaulting_on_the_n/

Wherever it was, it's nonsense.  It is quite true that there is a
large accumulated surplus from Social Security taxes, and that under
the CBO's very conservative assumptions, the surplus won't be spent
down for at least 40 years.  Under more realistic assumptions, it'll
probably be a lot more than 40 years, perhaps indefinitely.  SS is no
financial danger in the forseeable future.

Nonetheless, the claim that SS changes would be equivalent to default
on the national debt is absurd.  Were SS benefits to be decreased, th=
e
surplus money would still be paid out to SS recipients, it would just
be paid out later.

There is a widespread misconception about Social Security -- despite =
a
lot of smoke and mirrors to the contrary, it is not an investment pla=
n
like a 401(K), it is basically insurance.  Its goal, which it meets
rather well, is to ensure that Americans who worked will not die in
poverty.  The account stuff is to track whether you've worked long
enough to qualify for benefits; the amount put in does not match what
you get out and never has.  There are no bonds in the SS surplus with
anyone's name on them.  What you get out mostly depends on how long
you live after you retire.

It's hard to believe that Dean Baker doesn't understand this, so I'm
at a loss to fathom what he's trying to do here.  Cutting Social
Security benefits is bad policy and bad economics, but please, the
issue is complex enough without turning it into a farce.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet=
 for =20
Dummies",
Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com,=
 ex-=20
Mayor
"More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.

> President-Elect Obama Suggests Defaulting on the National
> DebtPresident-elect Obama apparently believes that the crisis broug=
ht
> on by the collapse of the housing bubble will require defaulting on
> the national debt. The New York Times reported today that Obama
> believes that "changes in Social Security and Medicare will be cent=
ral
> to efforts to bring federal spending in line."
> While Medicare is projected to face shortfalls because of the
> incredible inefficiency of the U.S. health care system, the
> Congressional Budget Office projects that Social Security will be
> fully funded until 2049 from its own stream of tax revenues and the
> U.S. bonds it holds.
> If Mr. Obama plans to cut Social Security in the near future, then
> this effectively amounts to a default on the bonds held by the trus=
t
> fund which were purchased with workers' Social Security taxes. ...




-------------------------------------------
Archives: 
RSS Feed: 
/www.listbox.com">http://www.listbox.com

--=20
James Love, Director, Knowledge Ecology International
=
http://www.keionline.org | mailto:james.love at keionline.org
Wk: +1.202.332.2671 | US Mobile +1.202.361.3040 | Geneva Mobile +41.7=
6.413.6584




--=20

Dean Baker (baker@cepr.net)
Co-Director
Center for Economic and Policy Research=20
1611 Connecticut Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20009
202-293-5380 (ext 114)
202-332-5218 (H)
ww=
w.cepr.net

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_C5/+5lHxqnJyeuFXrmhx4Q)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 09:20:44 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EIBV0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EI7UT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900L014GVS0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:43:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD9009DE4GVFJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:43:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDD8127D34 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:44:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF31C8271 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:36:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20AB8826C for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AAaMTR000241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:36:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:36:20 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: END OF DICSSION DJF Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <750E3D86-4DEE-4DB0-874C-EF87D643553F@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 891070E4-DF02-11DD-A07C-4C122947B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4967E5F0.7060202@acb.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Andrew Burnette Date: January 9, 2009 7:04:00 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Dean Baker nonsense about Defaulting on the National Debt Dave, while I 100% agree that calling it a default on debt is "alarmist" at the kinder end of the scale, let's call it what it is. Congress for decades has been hiding horrendous budget deficits of the federal government by silently borrowing the entire social security surplus. It's nothing short of nauseating. Most year of the past 3 decades have had actual operating deficits 50-100% above that which get printed in the paper. Sure, the OMB and so on put the numbers in the fine print, but it is akin to the hidden "other 7%" SS/payroll tax regular employees never see (paid by employers) on their paystubs. (My opinion is that sheer outrage among the working middle class would flip washington up end a few times if that entire tax amount were shown on paychecks) Here's where it gets ugly. When those notes from the SS trust fund come due, the federal operational budget is required to pay back those debts. So the question becomes "with what, more debt?" and from where might that debt be financed. Default? Perhaps that's just a misnomer. But I know if I stop paying my credit cards to pay my mortgage, someone will claim I'm in default. Should the federal budget be any different? Best regards, andy burnette -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 09:20:45 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EIBV0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EI7UT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900C0172Y5R@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:40:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900B4X72XB4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:40:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A001EECA for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:40:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61D0143C for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:38:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BA343A for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:38:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0ABcjxY011161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:38:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:38:44 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] AT&T, Verizon Manipulating "Access Line" Losses. U-verse and FiOS are NOT included. 25th Anniversary Report Coming. To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 43795EFC-DF0B-11DD-B51F-9609AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901080815.n088FBR14067@viper.oldcity.dca.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Bruce Kushnick" Date: January 8, 2009 3:13:12 AM EST To: Subject: AT&T, Verizon Manipulating "Access Line" Losses. U-verse and FiOS are NOT included. 25th Anniversary Report Coming. Teletruth News Alert -- January 8th, 2008 (NOTE: (see below) New Networks Institute will be releasing "25th Anniversary Report of Key Financial Indicators of AT&T, Verizon and Qwest" later this month.) AT&T and Verizon Are Manipulating "Access Line" Losses. U-verse and FiOS are NOT included as "access" lines. Verizon's largest competitor is -- Verizon. FCC data on Verizon and AT&T phone lines shows major phone line increases, not decreases. Companies are manipulating the data to get deregulation to raise rates and tax relief. AT&T and Verizon have been complaining that they are losing 'access lines' because of competition and should therefore be 'deregulated'. This has allowed them to continue to raise phone rates over the last decade, and in some states, like New Jersey, they are claiming that they are competitive and should not have to pay telecom related taxes or even property taxes. Read this article from New Jersey http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/verizon_plans_to_halt_certain.html We have uncovered a serious manipulation of the data to essentially game the regulatory system and get major financial favors - even keeping their networks closed to competition. What's going on? 1) Verizon and AT&T are not counting FiOS or U-verse, their new fiber- based products, as 'access lines', even though they are replacing the customers' existing line or even using the line, as is the case with U-verse. 2) Verizon and AT&T are 'double-counting' FIOS and U-verse as both a loss to access lines, instead of as a gain to the access line count. 3) Verizon and AT&T are leaving out virtually all 'broadband' connections in their line accounting. 4) Verizon, AT&T and Qwest are not counting an additional two hundred million lines which would show major growth. There are a host of other tricks, such as including the "competitive lines" the company lost, or DSL replacement of a second line. The Math 1) Verizon and AT&T are not counting FiOS or U-verse, their new fiber- based products in their access line counts. The stats: In the Verizon, 3rd Quarter report, 2008, Verizon claimed they had 37 access lines, and 41 million lines in 2007 - a drop of 3.5 million lines. However, Verizon also added 1.6 million FiOS TV customers and 2.2 million FiOS Internet customers as of the 3rd quarter 2008 - a total of 3.8 million lines. When Verizon goes to a home they pull out or disconnect the customer's existing copper 'access' line and replace it with a upgraded fiber wire. Yet, they are not counting these 3.8 million additions in the access line numbers. AT&T is still using the wire, but still changing the line count. Exhibit Verizon's Access Lines vs the Additions of FiOS (000) Source, Verizon. 9/30/07 9/30/08 Adding FiOS Actual Access lines 40,719 37,072 40,872 44,672 change -8.96% 0.38% 9.71% Lines Lost 3,647 2) Verizon is 'double-counting'. Verizon is showing a drop of lines caused by the replacing of the wire of 3,647 million lines. At the same time, 3.8 million FiOS lines should have been added to the Verizon line count, not subtracted. Thus, not counting 7.6 million additional lines. If they just added the 3.8 million lines then Verizon would have had a modest increase of .38%, instead they show a decline of 9%. However, if they accounted for both the failure to show FiOS as an addition, and not a loss of lines, the company's statistics are off by 7.6 million. Suddenly, the company's numbers show a 9.71% increase from 2007 to 2008. 3) Verizon and AT&T are leaving out virtually all broadband connections. To add insult to injury, Verizon also had 8.5 million 'broadband connections', AT&T claims 14.8 million 'broadband connections' and 3 million 'video connections'. Based on the data supplied by the SEC-based annual and quarterly reports, there is know way of knowing how many actual services replaced the traditional access lines and were not counted. 4) FCC DATA: Total Lines Verses the Bells Access lines --- Almost 200 Million Lines Missing in Bell Count. The Bells' stated number of lines in their press releases and annual reports shows the lines went from 114 million in 1984 to 188 million in 2000, then down to 140 million by 2006. If we use the peak of 188 million lines in 2000, according to AT&T, Verizon and Qwest, there's been a 25% decrease in lines. (We use 2006 in this example because the FCC does not publish later data for total lines.) However, the FCC required the Bells to send in data about ALL phone lines, not what they Bells called "switched access" lines. Exhibit Bell Lines Vs FCC Bell "Total Lines",1984-2006 (In the millions) 1984 1990 1995 2000 2005 2006 From2000 overall Bell Lines 114 135 158 188 148 140 -25.4% 23% "Total" 118 130 166 245 312 337 37.7% 187% Difference 197 "Total Lines" tells a different story and it includes almost 200 million lines the Bell companies have refused to discuss in their current discussion of actual installed lines. Many of these lines are 'special access' or 'non-switched' lines or digital lines. A special access line can be an alarm circuit, for example. According to the FCC's "Statistics of Common Carriers" for the years 2005 and 2006, the Bell's "Total" lines went from 118 million in 1984 to 337 million in 2006, a steady year by year increase. From 2000, these data points show the number of lines increasing almost 38%. Overall, while the Bells rise and fall numbers gives the total increase at 23%, the FCC's Total line numbers reveals a 187% increase. Why would a company distort line counts? It may be that they want more 'deregulation' benefits, not to mention tax breaks, or larger parts of the proposed stimulus package. If they are perceived as being put up by 'competition', then the regulators might be more obliging. We note that in our full analysis of line counts we agree that there has been some loss to competition from the cable companies or wireless services. However, even when someone 'cuts the cord' for a wireless service, AT&T and Verizon own most of the marketplace and have the largest market share in their own territories. All the information has been taken from Bell annual and quarterly reports and FCC data. 25th Anniversary Report to be Released this Month. 1/1/09 is the official 25th anniversary of the break up or AT&T. Known as "divestiture", 25 years ago AT&T was divided into seven regional companies, commonly known as the Regional Bell Operating Companies. AT&T and MCI were competing and there were a host of other independent phone companies, such as GTE. By 2009, Humpty Dumpty has been put back together again in the form of three non-competing companies - AT&T, Verizon and Qwest - that control critical infrastructure; the Public Switched Telephone Networks (PSTN). As America sits and discusses how to create a stimulus package for broadband and the Internet, it is clear that most proposals simply want to repeat history and are not addressing the primary issues of who should control and build critical infrastructure, much less pay for it. This study gives key financial indicators in a 25 year analysis including revenues, employees, number of lines, construction expenditures, depreciation, profits, broadband deployment, FCC data capabilities, and the price of local, long distance and wireless service. For More Information: Bruce Kushnick, Chairman, Teletruth http://www.teletruth.org Executive Director, New Networks Institute http://www.newnetworks.com -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 09:20:46 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EIBV0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EI7UT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900D017R5DL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:54:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900BD67R5B4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:54:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21B0428D31 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:55:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1588B0A for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:45:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875398AF9 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:45:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0ABjA7F011257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:45:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:45:09 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Obama's Broadband Plan --- To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <6E9631CE-C109-4666-82A6-7A5D4C17874B@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_bna7UVpGBMCwEeB+LF6FXQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 25BADC96-DF0C-11DD-BB38-8FF42847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090109072933.816E6706F@lists.bway.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_bna7UVpGBMCwEeB+LF6FXQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bruce Kushnick" Date: January 9, 2009 2:29:36 AM EST To: Subject: [OIA] Obama's Broadband Plan --- Placing bets on just how little change will occur, or more to the = =20 point about how much of our change ends up in the pockets of AT&T and= =20 Verizon=85 http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/09_03/b41160273651= 96.htm Obama's Broadband Plan Tax breaks for companies that increase Internet speed or create new = =20 networks are likely to go to existing large players By Arik Hesseldahl The Obama Administration has pledged support for universal broadband,= =20 or making speedy Internet service available to all Americans. But the= =20 ideas under consideration by the President-elect's transition team ar= e =20 likely to fall short of the radical changes some activists have sough= t. At the core of the $20 billion to $30 billion effort under discussion= =20 by Obama's advisers are tax breaks for companies that extend the = =20 availability of broadband or, in regions where it already exists, = =20 boost the speed of service, several people involved in the discussion= s =20 tell BusinessWeek. Companies that build broadband networks in areas = =20 with no service could receive as much as 60% of their investment back= =20 in tax credits. Companies that increase the speed of existing network= s =20 could get tax credits of as much as 40%. The tax incentives also coul= d =20 be structured to promote high broadband speeds, according to Jeffrey = =20 Campbell, director of technology and communications policy for networ= k =20 equipment maker Cisco Systems (CSCO). For example, some analysts say = =20 the government could give 20% tax credits for 20-megabit-per-second = =20 service and 40% credits for 100-megabit service. As currently conceived, the incentives would be available to any = =20 company. However, those most likely to benefit would be existing = =20 broadband providers such as AT&T (T), Verizon Communications (VZ), an= d =20 Comcast (CMCSA), because they have the capital to make investments, = =20 and it costs less to extend their networks than it does to build new = =20 ones. The new Administration appears unlikely to push forcefully for = =20 more competition in broadband, an idea that activist groups such as = =20 Free Press and Public Knowledge say is essential if the U.S. wants to= =20 catch up to broadband leaders such as Korea. "Broadband is a natural = =20 duopoly," counters Robert D. Atkinson, president of the Information = =20 Technology & Innovation Foundation, a nonpartisan think tank. =20 Proposals to create a third competitor to take on the telecom and = =20 cable companies in most markets, he says, are "misguided." Bonds in the Offing? The Obama transition team is still working on the broadband plan, and= =20 details could change. One issue that has not been resolved is whether= =20 the federal government will help companies issue bonds to finance = =20 broadband buildouts. Such a program could help companies such as = =20 Clearwire (CLWR), a struggling Kirkland (Wash.) startup that wants to= =20 roll out wireless broadband service across the country. Blair Levin, = =20 point person for broadband on the transition team, declined to commen= t =20 for this story. Levin and his team are working on proposals to stimulate demand for = =20 broadband service. Schools, libraries, and health-care organizations = =20 could get tax breaks or grants for expanding the range of services = =20 they offer online. One of Obama's talking points during the =20 Presidential campaign was that wider use of digital health records = =20 could improve the industry's productivity and cut costs. In addition to the tax credits under discussion, the federal =20 government may also provide grants to states for the construction of = =20 broadband networks in regions that never get coverage. States probabl= y =20 would use the money to hire private companies to build networks in = =20 remote areas. The Agriculture Dept. already has a Rural Development = =20 Broadband Program, which has connected nearly 600,000 households in 4= 0 =20 states since 2002. The broadband push is an important part of the Obama Administration's= =20 broader stimulus plan because it addresses several goals. Besides = =20 creating immediate jobs in construction and allowing more people to = =20 use the Internet, the effort could raise the country's broadband = =20 standing internationally. Once ranked fourth in the world by the = =20 Organization for Economic Cooperation & Development, the U.S. has = =20 fallen to 15th among developed countries in broadband penetration, = =20 well behind nations such as Denmark, theNetherlands, and Norway. = =20 "Broadband is the key to America's economic future," says S. Derek = =20 Turner, research director at Free Press. "Broadband is a great way to= =20 create thousands of new jobs, but we have to do it in the right way." Although details of the Obama plan have not been announced, telecom = =20 and cable companies are in favor of the government's support for = =20 universal broadband. "It's a worthy goal," says Thomas J. Tauke, = =20 executive vice-president at Verizon Communications. The existing = =20 broadband companies say it's crucial that Washington doesn't hurt the= =20 ongoing investments in Internet infrastructure. Many outfits, for = =20 example, don't think the government should make direct investments in= =20 broadband networks that could compete against the telecom and cable = =20 players' services. But Turner at Free Press is skeptical that a broadband program relyin= g =20 heavily on tax credits is the best approach. The risk, he says, is = =20 that the country will fail to encourage competition, and the money = =20 spent will go largely to the telecom and cable companies that already= =20 dominate the business. "There's no point to doing all this if all = =20 we're doing is writing the incumbent [players] a blank check," he say= s. With Pete Engardio and Peter Elstrom in New York. Hesseldahl is a reporter for BusinessWeek.com. _______________________________________________ Open Infrastructure Alliance http://lists.bway.net/listinfo/oia ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_bna7UVpGBMCwEeB+LF6FXQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bruce Kushnick" <bruc= e@newnetworks.com>
Date: January 9, 2009 2:29:36 A= M EST
Subject: [OIA] Obama's Broadband P= lan ---

<= font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman">Placing bets on just how little change will occur, = or more to the point about how much of our change ends up in the pock= ets of AT&T and Verizon=85

<= a href=3D"http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/09_03/b4= 116027365196.htm" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "= >http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/09_03/b4116027365= 196.htm

Obama's Broadband Pl= an

Tax breaks for companies that= increase Internet speed or create new networks are likely to go to e= xisting large players

By Arik Hesseldahl=

The Obama Admin= istration has pledged support for universal broadband, or making spee= dy Internet service available to all Americans. But the ideas under c= onsideration by the President-elect's transition team are likely to f= all short of the radical changes some activists have sought.

At the core of the $20 billion to $30 billion effort under discussio= n by Obama's advisers are tax breaks for companies that extend the av= ailability of broadband or, in regions where it already exists, boost= the speed of service, several people involved in the discussions tel= l BusinessWeek. Companies that= build broadband networks in areas with no service could receive as m= uch as 60% of their investment back in tax credits. Companies that in= crease the speed of existing networks could get tax credits of as muc= h as 40%. The tax incentives also could be structured to promote high= broadband speeds, according to Jeffrey Campbell, director of technol= ogy and communications policy for network equipment maker Cisco Syste= ms (CSCO). For example, some analysts say the governm= ent could give 20% tax credits for 20-megabit-per-second service and = 40% credits for 100-megabit service.

= As currently conceived,= the incentives would be available to any company. However, those mos= t likely to benefit would be existing broadband providers such as AT&= amp;T (T), Verizon Communications (VZ), a= nd Comcast (CMCSA), because they have the capital to= make investments, and it costs less to extend their networks than it= does to build new ones. The new Administration appears unlikely to p= ush forcefully for more competition in broadband, an idea that activi= st groups such as Free Press and Public Knowledge say is essential if= the U.S. wants to catch up to broadband leaders such as Korea. "Broa= dband is a natural duopoly," counters Robert D. Atkinson, president o= f the Information Technology & Innovation Foundation, a nonpartis= an think tank. Proposals to create a third competitor to take on the = telecom and cable companies in most markets, he says, are "misguided.= "

Bonds in the Offing?

CLWR), a struggling Kirkland (Wash.) startup that= wants to roll out wireless broadband service across the country. Bla= ir Levin, point person for broadband on the transition team, declined= to comment for this story.

Levin and his team are working o= n proposals to stimulate demand for broadband service. Schools, libra= ries, and health-care organizations could get tax breaks or grants fo= r expanding the range of services they offer online. One of Obama's t= alking points during the Presidential campaign was that wider use of = digital health records could improve the industry's productivity and = cut costs.

In addition to the tax credits under discussio= n, the federal government may also provide grants to states for the c= onstruction of broadband networks in regions that never get coverage.= States probably would use the money to hire private companies to bui= ld networks in remote areas. The Agriculture Dept. already has a Rura= l Development Broadband Program, which has connected nearly 600,000 h= ouseholds in 40 states since 2002.

The broadband push is an = important part of the Obama Administration's broader stimulus plan be= cause it addresses several goals. Besides creating immediate jobs in = construction and allowing more people to use the Internet, the effort= could raise the country's broadband standing internationally. Once r= anked fourth in the world by the Organization for Economic Cooperatio= n & Development, the <= /span>U.S. has fallen to 15th among= developed countries in broadband penetration, well behind nations su= ch as Denmark, theNetherlands, and Norway. "Broadba= nd is the key to America's economic future," says S. Derek Turner, re= search director at Free Press. "Broadband is a great way to create th= ousands of new jobs, but we have to do it in the right way."

Although details of the Obama plan have not been announced, telecom = and cable companies are in favor of the government's support for univ= ersal broadband. "It's a worthy goal," says Thomas J. Tauke, executiv= e vice-president at Verizon Communications. The existing broadband co= mpanies say it's crucial that&n= bsp;Washington doesn't hurt the ongoing investments in Internet infrastructure. = Many outfits, for example, don't think the government should make dir= ect investments in broadband networks that could compete against the = telecom and cable players' services.

= But Turner at Free Pres= s is skeptical that a broadband program relying heavily on tax credit= s is the best approach. The risk, he says, is that the country will f= ail to encourage competition, and the money spent will go largely to = the telecom and cable companies that already dominate the business. "= There's no point to doing all this if all we're doing is writing the = incumbent [players] a blank check," he says.=

 New York. 
Hesseldahl=  is a reporter for = BusinessWeek.com.

=  
__________________________= _____________________
Open Infrastructure Alliance
http://lists.bway.net/listinfo/oia
<= /div>
Archives
--Boundary_(ID_bna7UVpGBMCwEeB+LF6FXQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 09:20:48 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EIBV0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900201EI7UT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900H019IF70@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:32:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900F839IFTU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:32:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8399EA3 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:33:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FA44DE4 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:31:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5284DD9 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:31:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0ACVNGe000848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:31:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:31:23 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Whole Earth Catalog June 1971 - Electronic Edition -- another era djf To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <6F73A0B5-F84D-4D75-A5AF-281FFC61DA0C@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_mmFut0p02TO+Ng2o/Scn0g)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 99A5AAB8-DF12-11DD-BF55-A47D10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_mmFut0p02TO+Ng2o/Scn0g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.wholeearth.com/issue-electronic-edition.php?iss=1150 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_mmFut0p02TO+Ng2o/Scn0g) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

http://www.wholeearth.com/issue-electronic-edition.php?iss=1150

--Boundary_(ID_mmFut0p02TO+Ng2o/Scn0g)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 12:48:57 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O5FHH@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O57G2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900M01N0WAS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900KHNN0W2U@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE4BE8EA for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A6AF2F9 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316812F6 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AHJoJQ014768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:16:25 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <236A26D9-EA0B-4509-81BC-B64B87EE10C4@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: E67853CC-DF3A-11DD-8E10-DC17AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4968BEC9.8030602@csudh.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Larry Press Date: January 10, 2009 10:29:13 AM EST To: "dave@farber.net" Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Obama's Broadband Plan --- > * Placing bets on just how little change will occur, or more to the > point about how much of our change ends up in the pockets of AT&T a= nd > Verizon=85 * The administration is seeking rapid spending as economic stimulus, bu= t =20 we also need to look to the future. For example, we need to encourage fiber in the last mile. The OECD = =20 says FTTx is used in 45% of Japanese broadband connection, 39% in = =20 Korea, 19% in Sweden, 18% in The Slovak Republic, and 3% in the US. The bad news is that we are behind some nations; the good news is tha= t =20 the telephone and cable companies do not own fiber connecting 100% of= =20 our homes and buildings ... yet. We will eventually have a lot of fiber installed, but who will own it= ? =20 Verizon? We have seen how they use "their" copper "pipes." Are ther= e =20 viable alternatives? Ownership by local governments? Coops? Home = =20 and building owners? Larry Press -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 12:49:00 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O5FHH@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O57G2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900M01N0ZAX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900KHQN0Z2U@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23AEF9CD for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B538CC8 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5508CC2 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AHJoJP014768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:14:24 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Nanoscale 'Levitation' Discovery Could Lead to Better Nanomachines To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <055B2850-91C2-4652-BAFE-DD6F687C73B0@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: E72E5A64-DF3A-11DD-93A8-22CE2847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: January 9, 2009 6:49:53 PM EST To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Nanoscale 'Levitation' Discovery Could Lead to Better Nanomachines Nanoscale 'Levitation' Discovery Could Lead to Better Nanomachines By exploiting a quantum mechanical quirk, a team of researchers has discovered how to levitate a tiny object. The finding sounds magical, but it could have an important practical application -- helping scientists build better nanoscale machines. "We could use this as a quantum mechanical lubricant," says Harvard physicist Federico Capasso, one of the authors of a paper published this week in the journal Nature. The new research uses a force first described by the Dutch physicist Hendrik Casimir in 1948. Casimir predicted that due to quantum energy fluctuations, two metal plates placed very close together -- within nanometers of each other -- would attract one another. Casimir's prediction was borne out in lab experiments, but until recently was interesting only to theoretical physicists. In recent years, however, as scientists have begun to work toward building nanoscale machines, they've realized that the Casimir force could cause practical problems -- making the tiny parts of those machines stick together and gumming up the works. Capasso, in fact, first became interested in the problem when working at Bell Labs in the 1990s, building micro electromechanical systems (MEMS), the technology used in airbag sensors, among other things. "We knew that if we kept scaling down the dimensions, from micrometer to nanometer, at some point these surfaces could stick to each other because of Casimir attraction," Capasso says. Since the 1960s, though, researchers also realized that theoretically, if the air between the plates were replaced by the right material, the Casimir force would cause the materials to repel one another rather than attract. However, because the forces at work were so tiny, they were never able demonstrate the repulsive Casimir force in the lab. [snip] RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 12:49:02 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O5FHH@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O57G2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900M01N11B2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900KHTN112U@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4435A2D for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA3FE4781 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31D2477D for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AHJoJS014768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:56 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <4755FFE8-83B1-4DA5-9954-03E12A550365@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: E8A64D2A-DF3A-11DD-969C-0F2610C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4968BEC9.8030602@csudh.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Larry Press Date: January 10, 2009 10:29:13 AM EST To: "dave@farber.net" Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Obama's Broadband Plan --- > * Placing bets on just how little change will occur, or more to the > point about how much of our change ends up in the pockets of AT&T a= nd > Verizon=85 * The administration is seeking rapid spending as economic stimulus, bu= t =20 we also need to look to the future. For example, we need to encourage fiber in the last mile. The OECD = =20 says FTTx is used in 45% of Japanese broadband connection, 39% in = =20 Korea, 19% in Sweden, 18% in The Slovak Republic, and 3% in the US. The bad news is that we are behind some nations; the good news is tha= t =20 the telephone and cable companies do not own fiber connecting 100% of= =20 our homes and buildings ... yet. We will eventually have a lot of fiber installed, but who will own it= ? =20 Verizon? We have seen how they use "their" copper "pipes." Are ther= e =20 viable alternatives? Ownership by local governments? Coops? Home = =20 and building owners? Larry Press -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 12:49:04 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O5FHH@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O57G2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900M01N1GBD@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900KI4N1G2U@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F28A7E9A for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B2A46DB for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1844B2F8 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32DB52F5 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AHJoJM014768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:11:33 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Whole Earth Catalog June 1971 - Electronic Edition -- another era djf To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <0437C8D7-FDBE-40E0-8D7A-E37CE22C7541@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: E5E2A3D6-DF3A-11DD-8B55-CC17AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Brian Randell Date: January 10, 2009 9:04:37 AM EST To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Whole Earth Catalog June 1971 - Electronic Edition -- another era djf Dave: > http://www.wholeearth.com/issue-electronic-edition.php?iss=1150 This prompted me to wonder if Computer Lib/Dream Machines, which was inspired by the Whole Earth Catalogue, was available on line (though I have my own treasured copy, from the time when we made it a recommended text for our first year students.) I found just excerpts at: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/books/computer-lib/ Cheers Brian -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 12:49:05 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O5FHH@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O57G2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900M01N1LBK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900KIAN1K2U@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B031D35 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:24:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10BF18CCD for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804EB8CC3 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AHJoJO014768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:13:08 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Congress Should Delay the Digital TV Transition To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <298865B4-9A87-46C4-A4D3-231D3D1CEAE3@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: E7869350-DF3A-11DD-8B2B-23CE2847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090110161541.GA23260@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: January 10, 2009 11:15:41 AM EST To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] WORTH READING Congress Should Delay the Digital TV Transition Dave, By the way, though I didn't mention this in my essay a couple of days ago urging DTV transition delay, it appears that there may be some DTV converter price gouging going on now so close to the current analog cutoff date. At local stores here in L.A., I've seen that the exact same converters that were available for *free* a couple of months ago (that is, $40, minus the $40 coupon) are now priced $20 higher! Same box, same store. Only difference -- the deadline looms. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com - - - On 01/10 04:55, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Bruce Kushnick" > Date: January 9, 2009 11:05:44 PM EST > To: > Subject: RE: [IP] Congress Should Delay the Digital TV Transition > > > > > viewers, > ear" > requirements. > > > > We wrote an article about why there should be a delay... The real > secret > -- > the antenna configurations were not designed for digital signals and > in > whole strips of America's rural fringe areas are going to lose signals > even > with new antennas. > > We wrote an article > http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=0 > 0383 > > Tom Allibone of Teletruth actually went to customers' homes in > Hunterdon > county, NJ to do real world testing --- The result was -- 100% lost > New > York > channels, even though they are in the NY City MSA > > We did a separate report on the survey. > http://www.newnetworks.com/dtvreport.htm > > > So customers go out, buy the box, find it doesn't work, then goes back > to > the store who has no idea about an antenna -- and even those who > bought > new > antennas --- or new TVs are not guaranteed they will work. > > According to the original documents, the NTIA claimed it would work > with > existing technology -- the rabbit ears... with no real world testing. > > And, then there's the question of, well, collusion. Every media outlet > has > been essentially using the materials supplied by the NTIA, FCC, and > NAB > -- > and virtually no programming even mentioned that the person may need a > new > antenna until December 2008. And, most programming today does not > mention > the antenna issue. > > So, in the middle of a winter snowstorm, seniors go on the roofs of > their > houses to attempt to adjust an antenna that can't be adjusted --- and > spend > hundreds more on antennas that they really don't have the money to > spend > on > -- then the cable companies comes over and raises their left eyebrow > -- > have > I got a deal for you... > > Should we be talking TV-Lifeline? > > B. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 12:49:07 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O5FHH@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900O01O57G2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:48:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900M01N9JQ7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:29:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900KLRN9J2U@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:29:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5A07678 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:29:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F7A94F6B for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:29:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB422F7 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 876A32F4 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AHJoJN014768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:19:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:11:53 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Whole Earth Catalog June 1971 - Electronic Edition -- another era djf To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_zKJz6jyOLpuL2SSuP51qJw)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: E574A336-DF3A-11DD-943A-C517AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <53419081-7AE6-4CC9-8891-FFB48D980D32@gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_zKJz6jyOLpuL2SSuP51qJw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Jonathan P Gill Date: January 10, 2009 9:37:04 AM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: Jonathan P Gill Subject: Re: [IP] Whole Earth Catalog June 1971 - Electronic Edition -- another era djf Dave, Great to see this online. We really need a New Whole Earth Catalogue for the Re-localization movement that is emerging in this new epoch. This time focused on community, not so much on the individual. Thanks, Jock Jock Gill Pellet Futures P.O. Box 3 Peacham, VT 05862 Live Green & Thrive! O: +1 (781) 396-0492 C: +1 (617) 449-8111 VT: (802) 613-1444 On Jan 10, 2009, at 7:31 AM, David Farber wrote: > > http://www.wholeearth.com/issue-electronic-edition.php?iss=1150 > > Archives ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_zKJz6jyOLpuL2SSuP51qJw) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin forwarded message:





<= span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-style: = normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: no= rmal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent:= 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spac= ing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vert= ical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-= text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; ">
Jock Gill
Pellet Fu= tures
P.O. Box 3
Peacham,  VT  05862
Live Green & Thrive!
O: +1 (781) 396-0492
C: +1 (617) 449-8111=
VT: (802) 613-= 1444





Archives
--Boundary_(ID_zKJz6jyOLpuL2SSuP51qJw)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 17:26:37 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDA00M01104VB@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:26:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDA00M01101V4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:26:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900401QV8Z9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:47:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD9001NXQV74J@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:47:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AADD8C1B for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:47:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C5A5F for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD1F63 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AIjdc2004817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:45:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:45:38 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <50337A3E-CAAA-4A6E-B8D9-B73C1D278C2F@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: F0E2C7BE-DF46-11DD-9A9A-8D324FEFE1AF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4968E1BE.8080801@cmu.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Rahul Tongia Date: January 10, 2009 12:58:22 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip , Larry Press Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- Reply-To: tongia@cmu.edu Dave, (1) I wholeheartedly agree that we need way more fiber, but (2) we ma= y =20 be able to do much more with existing infrastructure as well. I write about how/why DSL is way overpriced in urban markets re. (2) = =20 on the link below. Re. (1) for many parts of the US, there is a =20 relatively inexpensive way to get fiber - poles. Ariel fiber is quit= e =20 cheap. The poles are there. Getting your hands on it is the =20 challenge. E.g., in parts of Rural PA, there are 3 "utilities" that = =20 own about a third of the poles (cable, telephony, and power). They = =20 give each other access (sometimes regulated). The problem is none of= =20 them (or the regulators) have figured out (or ?wanted to figure out) = =20 how to manage fiber. The claims of "safety issues" on electric poles and space requirement= s =20 is hokey. There are optical fibers available that are embedded =20 *within* electrical distribution cable. A GREAT solution IMHO. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rtongia/web2/FCC.html#FCC-Personal_Reactions [see a few paras down re. (1) and (2) Rahul David Farber wrote: > Begin forwarded message: > From: Larry Press > Date: January 10, 2009 10:29:13 AM EST > To: "dave@farber.net" > Cc: ip > Subject: Re: [IP] Obama's Broadband Plan --- >> * Placing bets on just how little change will occur, or more to th= e >> point about how much of our change ends up in the pockets of AT&T = and >> Verizon=85 * > The administration is seeking rapid spending as economic stimulus, = =20 > but we also need to look to the future. > For example, we need to encourage fiber in the last mile. The OECD= =20 > says FTTx is used in 45% of Japanese broadband connection, 39% in = =20 > Korea, 19% in Sweden, 18% in The Slovak Republic, and 3% in the US. > The bad news is that we are behind some nations; the good news is = =20 > that the telephone and cable companies do not own fiber connecting = =20 > 100% of our homes and buildings ... yet. > We will eventually have a lot of fiber installed, but who will own = =20 > it? Verizon? We have seen how they use "their" copper "pipes." Ar= e =20 > there viable alternatives? Ownership by local governments? Coops?= =20 > Home and building owners? > Larry Press > ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 17:26:38 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDA00M01104VB@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:26:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDA00M01101V4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:26:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900501R0Y4N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:50:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD900525R0Y0B@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:50:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBEBB707E for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:50:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF0D23D7C for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:50:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44CC242A0 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B22429B for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AIjdc3004817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:10 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: F56CC8DE-DF46-11DD-B367-786010C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901101815.LAA11928@lariat.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Brett Glass Date: January 10, 2009 1:15:19 PM EST To: dave@farber.net, "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- At 10:16 AM 1/10/2009, Larry Press wrote: > For example, we need to encourage fiber in the last mile. The OECD > says FTTx is used in 45% of Japanese broadband connection, 39% in > Korea, 19% in Sweden, 18% in The Slovak Republic, and 3% in the US. Given the cost of Internet backbone bandwidth, fiber in the last mile is not only unnecessary but wasteful, especially in rural areas. Today, bandwidth costs $4 to $6 per megabit per second per month, wholesale, at urban peering points... and that's not counting any of the expense to deliver it to the consumer, which is greater than the cost of the bandwidth itself. In rural areas and even many suburbs, bandwidth costs $100 to $400 per megabit per second per month. Fiber has far more capacity than is needed to deliver any service level for which consumers can actually afford to pay. Wireless, in particular, is far more cost-effective than fiber for the last mile -- especially in areas with low population density such as outlying suburbs and rural areas (which constitute most of the land area of the United States). The capital cost to cover 9 square miles of rural area is roughly $1,000, while the expense of fiber coverage for a similar area can run into the millions. This, together with the fact that it provides opportunities for competition and consumer choice, is why wireless is so important as a "third pipe." Any forum on broadband policy which does not include wireless providers, and recognize wireless as a viable and economical way of reaching consumers, is seriously deficient and incomplete and threatens to push our country toward duopoly and inadequate broadband deployment. --Brett Glass -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jan 10 17:26:39 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDA00M01104VB@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:26:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDA00M01101V4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:26:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KD900501R2I7F@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:51:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KD90053RR2I0B@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:51:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9427416 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:51:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1CC41EB for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:51:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD9F5F for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:47:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B22E65 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:47:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0AIjdc4004817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:45 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <8D527066-EAB5-4D2E-9C40-FCF18A2AAF69@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 193C825E-DF47-11DD-A8CA-BA0238BE9A37 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4968EC39.1070904@csudh.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Larry Press Date: January 10, 2009 1:43:05 PM EST To: "tongia@cmu.edu" Cc: "dave@farber.net" , ip Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- Rahul Tongia wrote: > (1) I wholeheartedly agree that we need way more fiber, but (2) we > may be able to do much more with existing infrastructure as well. > I write about how/why DSL is way overpriced in urban markets No doubt -- Europeans seem to be doing more with DSL than we are. Robert Atkinson, who was quoted in the Business Week article that Bruce posted, also stresses that point. (See http://www.itif.org/index.php?id=212) . Still, in the long run, don't you think we will have fiber connections to most urban and many rural locations? If that is the end state, I'd hate to see Verizon own it. I also understand the desire to act quickly for reasons of economic stimulus -- I wonder how many local governments have "shovel ready" network plans ready to go. Larry -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Jan 11 08:30:18 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDB00D016UF5G@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:30:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDB00D016UA57@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:30:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDA00G01CFWNU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDA00DLYCFWLD@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9364FD33 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:33:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F67261A for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:29:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D9E619 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:29:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0B2TlGS022169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:29:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:29:48 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] National Research Council report on health care information technology report released today 1/9 To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: B9A2A576-DF87-11DD-83CD-325CAB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Joseph Traub Date: January 10, 2009 3:17:07 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: Joseph Traub Subject: National Research Council report on health care information technology report released today 1/9 Dave, I think this is a very timely report, especially with the new administration's interest in this issue. I hope you'll post. Joe *************************************************************** Joseph Traub, Chair Computer Science and Telecommunications Board, National Academies ****************************************************************** The pre-publication copy of the National Research Council's report on health care information technology, entitled "Computational Technology for Effective Health Care: Immediate Steps and Strategic Directions" is now available at www.nlm.nih.gov/pubs/reports/comptech_prepub.pdf . Undertaken under the auspices of the Computer Science and Telecommunications Board of the National Academies, the project was chaired by Bill Stead of Vanderbilt University and a member of the Institute of Medicine. (The file is about 300 KB in PDF.) In brief, this report finds that current efforts aimed at the nationwide deployment of health care IT will not be sufficient to achieve the vision of 21st century health care, and may even set back the cause if these efforts continue wholly without change from their present course, and that success in this regard will require greater emphasis on providing cognitive support for health care providers and for patients and family caregivers on the part of computer science and health/biomedical informatics researchers. Vendors, health care institutions, and government will also have to pay attention to cognitive support, which refers to computer-based tools and systems that offer clinicians and patients assistance for thinking about and solving problems related to specific instances of health care. The prepublication version is available for free, but it will undergo further editorial correction before it is published in book form, which will occur in about 8 to 10 weeks . -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Jan 11 14:24:04 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDB00801N7PUL@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:23:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDB00801N7MUE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDB00M01GIQAM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:59:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDB00K9GGIPGU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:59:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738D17A89 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:59:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E594234 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:59:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79ED188DD for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:54:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A954888D4 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:54:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0BGseI8015532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:54:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:54:39 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] The Real Cost of Delaying Digital TV To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <603A0682-A558-4269-AB77-6C673EAD0374@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 8CEECCAC-E000-11DD-806F-7EE32847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 ) at the very least pick a better race car driver "-) djf Begin forwarded message: =46rom: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: January 9, 2009 10:25:45 AM EST To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] The Real Cost of Delaying Digital TV THE REAL COST OF DELAYING DIGITAL TV Analysts say a prolonged delay to digital-only television broadcastin= g =20 could also be bad news for the wireless service providers who plan to= =20 use the airwaves that will be freed up as a result of the change. It = =20 may also put a damper on plans by broadcasters to air popular =20 programming once TV signals have gone digital and viewers have done = =20 away with outmoded TVs that only pick up analog signals. Mobile-phone= =20 service providers have a lot riding on the transition. Industry =20 leaders including AT&T and Verizon Wireless have spent billions of = =20 dollars on the airwaves that will be freed up when the transition = =20 happens and intend to use that spectrum to provide advanced services,= =20 including Web surfing and mobile video. While the services aren't = =20 scheduled to go live immediately after the transition, an extended = =20 delay could prove problematic. "Every day they can't roll out the = =20 system affects when they can bring [new products] to market," says Ti= m =20 Bajarin, president of industry researcher Creative Strategies. Howeve= r =20 long the delay, if it comes, Congress will have to pick a new =20 changeover date that will cause the least disruption for viewers=97fo= r =20 example, after the NCAA basketball tournament, which airs in March. = =20 The government also needs to do a better job educating consumers abou= t =20 the converter-box coupons and the changeover in general, analysts say= . =20 Many consumers are unaware of the boxes, and believe they need to buy= =20 a new TV. "There's still a lot of confusion," says Creative =20 Strategies' Bajarin. "The real solution for this is for the governmen= t =20 to be much more aggressive in getting the message out." Courtesy of the Benton Foundation RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Jan 11 14:24:05 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDB00801N7PUL@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:23:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDB00801N7MUE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDB00M01GSDQY@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:05:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDB002O8GSDKO@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:05:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857D928890 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:05:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FC274116 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:56:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7965A4110 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:56:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0BGudgD029374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:56:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:56:38 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <9F8A3023-87D4-4483-879A-CA66070CFFE5@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: D3E15FC6-E000-11DD-ACBC-705B10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901110126.SAA15783@lariat.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Brett Glass Date: January 10, 2009 8:26:21 PM EST To: Larry Press Cc: "dave@farber.net" Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Broadband Plan --- At 05:46 PM 1/10/2009, Larry Press wrote: >> I wouldn't trust my local government to understand how to provide >> decent infrastructure, nor to maintain it adequately. They can >> barely maintain their own internal network adequately! > > But, if they had a stimulus funding, perhaps they could invest in > cluefull people. None would want to work for the head IT person, who is said, by her employees and co-workers, to be something which rhymes with "witch." > (I am reminded of Singapore, where government jobs have high status > and compensation and attract good people). > > I would also assume they would be smart enough to coordinate their > planning and investment with their customers -- you and the other > ISPs. Nope. They'd favor large entities such as the phone company and the cable company. We know, because we once tried to bid on supplying them with bandwidth. They did everything they could -- in some cases, things that were legally questionable -- to ensure that only large companies needed to apply. In fact, in an attempt to keep me from bidding at all, they tried to impose a requirement that the service not be wireless. > Since there are only three of you, I would think you and the local > government could work together. We've completely given up on our local government. Again, they're incompetent and motivated purely by internal politics and empire- building. They won't even coordinate RF frequencies with us! > Alternatively, could you and your fellow ISPs form a coop that > allowed you to share meaningful infrastructure? My competitors are all from out of town or out of state. They are not collegial. They won't even return phone calls, much less cooperate. But even if they did, there's nothing that needs sharing. We're quite capable of building out our wireless network on our own. In fact, I have plans to install four new access points before spring, despite the freezing weather. > I'm not trying to hassle with you, but looking for alternatives to > giving a bunch of stimulus money to Verizon, et al. Why not try giving it to small business for a change? --Brett Glass -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 12 07:42:41 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDC00901ZB1V2@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDC00901ZAXUX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:42:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDC00I01OHE5P@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:48:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDC00AC9OHDCV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:48:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FEFCE6E for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:48:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABCD86D3 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:47:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26BDA86CC for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:47:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0C8lB7s009599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:47:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:47:11 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] U.S. Group Wants Total Driving Cell Phone Ban -- Or -- "Are you talking to yourself again?" To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2FC584C8-AE9B-475D-94B8-E4C241AB76BF@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 9D1D1CA2-E085-11DD-B95C-EAF12847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200901120424.n0C4OGhB020157@chrome.vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 remind me of prohibition djf Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: January 11, 2009 11:24:16 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: lauren@vortex.com Subject: U.S. Group Wants Total Driving Cell Phone Ban -- Or -- "Are you talking to yourself again?" U.S. Group Wants Total Driving Cell Phone Ban -- Or -- "Are you talking to yourself again?" http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000492.html Greetings. The U.S. National Safety Council wants to ban all cell phone use when driving, both hands-free and hand-held ( http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN1129237820090112 ). Now, from a technical standpoint this does make more sense than banning only the use of hand-held cell phones when driving, since study after study shows that hands-free is just as distracting ( http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000396.html ). However, I question whether the U.S. has the political will for such a total ban on cell phone use by drivers, and I also set forth the following query ... When viewing someone in another vehicle, assuming no visible flashing lights in their ears and such, how can you tell the difference between someone talking on a hands-free cell phone vs. someone talking to themselves? Would police be issued specialized gear to detect cell phone signals? Just how would such a ban be managed from a practical standpoint? Of course, the answer is that it would *not* be practical. The solution is not to concentrate on cell phone use, but rather on actual *distracted driving* in its various forms -- including when caused by eating, putting on makeup, tuning the radio, playing with the other hi-tech gadgets on the car console, yelling at the kids in the back seat, being visually diverted by the under-clad body waiting at the crosswalk, or ... The distracted driving itself is what really counts, not the innumerable possible actions that we take while driving with the *potential* to distract us. It's time to bring some sense back into this debate, not more nonsense. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jan 12 20:11:37 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDD00101XZBE3@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDD00101XZ7DY@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:11:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDD00O01XGDWY@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:00:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDD00KAXXGD2Q@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:00:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F0C80A0 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:00:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6A41D115 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56147BEB for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:54:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 357E8BEA for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:54:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.200] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0D0rqo4007985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:54:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:54:09 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?, 60 Minutes: Speculation Affected Oil Price Swings More Than Supply And Demand - CBS News To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <94B69776-CF82-4114-9EE6-DCEBE8C74112@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ueSoFyufu73IttNnJe/O7w)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: AFF49616-E10C-11DD-BEA0-3F4DAB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_ueSoFyufu73IttNnJe/O7w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/08/60minutes/main4707770.shtml ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_ueSoFyufu73IttNnJe/O7w) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/08/60minutes/main4707770.shtml

--Boundary_(ID_ueSoFyufu73IttNnJe/O7w)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue Jan 13 07:26:06 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDE00J01T79G9@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:25:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDE00J01T745Y@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:25:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDE00201MG29O@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDE004B4MPTDK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:05:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5504128C97 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:06:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4A15371 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:50:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D817536C for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:50:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0D9otCc015677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:50:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:50:54 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?, 60 Minutes: Speculation Affected Oil Price Swings More Than Supply And Demand - CBS News To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: AE01E9F8-E157-11DD-8846-362D10C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <496BF513.3020800@nma.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Ed Gerck, Ph.D." Date: January 12, 2009 8:57:39 PM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Did Speculation Fuel Oil Price Swings?, 60 Minutes: Speculation Affected Oil Price Swings More Than Supply And Demand - CBS News When access to cash was easy, companies in the sector were able to generate cash flow by continuously /borrowing/ and /repaying/ money with a cost (interest rate) that was lower than the return from the relentless price increase that was /created/ by controlling and reducing the fuel supply. When credit dried up, the companies were forced to sell fuel in order to meet their obligations, when price started to drop not because demand dropped but because cash was needed by the seller. But not just with oil companies. The financial sector of many companies was also able to generate more cash than the production sector. The present crash was mostly a "reset" to a saner model, but not for all actors. This perverse inversion, where sales is not as important as the financial schemes that are created to exploit the moment, has been the major factor sustaining insurance companies for years. Best regards, Ed Gerck -- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue Jan 13 07:26:07 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDE00J01T79G9@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:25:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDE00J01T745Y@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:25:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDE00E01N72BT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:16:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDE002I3N71BS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:16:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70EF98246 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:16:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6592453DB for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:16:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED315D4B for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:06:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0135FD4A for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:06:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0DA6tSu002264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:06:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:06:55 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Pittsburgh Comcast DOCSiS 3.0 installation To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <1873578D-3B6F-4377-B15E-6DA09D5D73B3@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: EAB3842C-E159-11DD-B28E-9D74AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Comcast cut over , at least in Shadyside and other parts of the area, their DOCSIS 3.0 upgrade. I see , using speedtest and the Frederick MD server, numbers, like 11 mbps down and 2.4 mbps up. That compares with about 5 mbbs down in the past. The Comcast network seems to operate at 33 mbbs down and 7 up ( I assume that is speed uo to the internet gateway). -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue Jan 13 07:26:08 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDE00J01T79G9@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:25:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDE00J01T745Y@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:25:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDE00B01I3YYU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:27:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDE00C24I4TCC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:26:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706B984AA for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60CD558C0 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A3B897 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:16:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C968895 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:16:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0D8Ge5Z014825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:16:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:16:40 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Genachowski to head FCC To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <4FD523E8-37AA-4AC0-BA3D-CABB7ADD1112@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 849D99C0-E14A-11DD-AA4C-9C40AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4DE5FC3A-C995-4B34-B111-5ACF2AD0B9EC@warpspeed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: January 12, 2009 7:16:33 PM EST To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Genachowski to head FCC [Note: This item comes from friend Charles Brown. DLH] Genachowski to head FCC By Brian Santo CedMagazine.com - January 09, 2009 The next Chairman of the FCC is going to be Julius Genachowski, =20 according to sources familiar with the choice. That Genachowski was a leading candidate for the position was first = =20 reported several weeks ago by The Washington Post (story here). Genachowski, currently a venture capitalist, served as chief counsel = =20 to former FCC Chairman Reed Hundt. He also attended law school at = =20 Harvard with Barack Obama and led the development of the president-= =20 elect=92s technology and innovation agenda. Obama has said little about his agenda for the communications =20 industry. He has taken positions common with most recent politicians:= =20 He wants to promote universal broadband Internet access to all =20 Americans and is an advocate of net neutrality, though what is meant = =20 by net neutrality remains undefined.RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue Jan 13 15:07:11 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDF00001EJTGX@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:07:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDF00001EJOGS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:07:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDF004012R7D3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:54:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDF006F31BT2A@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:21:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A62C58605 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B0FE5FA4 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8EC38C53 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:17:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D4E8C4E for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:17:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0DFGe2v008570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:17:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:16:59 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: $Multi-billion Broadband stimulus decisions imminent To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 3B45E2B0-E185-11DD-8910-75D72847B4DB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090113142308.GA36826@sbcglobal.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "(Mr) Lyn R Kennedy" Date: January 13, 2009 9:23:09 AM EST To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] $Multi-billion Broadband stimulus decisions imminent On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 07:20:50PM -0500, David Farber wrote: > > "The team is mostly policy people and extraordinarily capable but > mostly non-technical." WHY?? The best way of solving this is to have > highly technical people included who can say, as I said often at the > FCC, as Chief Technologist, to pleadings by companies to the > Chairman, "you are not telling it correctly? " Unfortunately, this is true also in the emergency communications area. Police, fire, EMS, and OEP people are being saddled with radio systems designed by salesmen and approved by politicians, neither with real expertise in critical systems. The E-911 systems are also seriously deficient for similar reasons. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | 73, E-mail | lrkn@sbcglobal.net | | Lyn Kennedy | | | K5QWB ICBM | 32.5 North 96.9 West | ---Livin' on an information FARM road a few miles off the superhighway--- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jan 14 09:36:25 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDG00O01TWL73@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:36:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDG00O01TWI6K@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:36:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDG00J01SGE0B@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDG00FL4SMV09@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:08:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C3B86C9 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:09:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA45263BD9 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:09:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84C25F51 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:54:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98AC05F4C for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:54:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0EDs6Sf009231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:54:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:54:05 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: $Multi-billion Broadband stimulus decisions imminent To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: D181D604-E242-11DD-9CC1-1B8010C32F4E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <496CB6B9.7000500@reed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "David P. Reed" Date: January 13, 2009 10:43:53 AM EST To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Re: $Multi-billion Broadband stimulus decisions imminent When I started on the TAC a few years ago, it was explained to me that the reason so few senior and experienced technical people were engaged with FCC policies was mostly this: the senior technical people in the field all get most of their paycheck from companies who have an interest in the outcome. That logic makes little sense to me as logic, but I suspect it is true. I think that what lurks under the surface is the idea that technical people are (witting or unwitting) shills for their employers. Of course, one might wonder about current and former lawyers for companies, and economists working for or planning to work for think tanks that are funded by communications companies. But us technical folks are apparently viewed as more corruptible than lawyers or economists by mere employment. ANd therefore more likely to spin things to make their employers' businesses more profitable. I doubt this is true, and I would point out that most technical folks at least have some objective criteria about which they argue (physical laws, testable equipment, ...) and most will respond to facts, having been trained to do so as realist engineers. But nevertheless, there is a view of technically competent people as "propellerheads" who cannot be trusted to lead in the policy arena. Perhaps because we don't play golf with the preppies as much as we should??? Maybe it's the opposite: maybe "corruptible" people are easier to do business with. We techies get cranky about getting the facts right. David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "(Mr) Lyn R Kennedy" > Date: January 13, 2009 9:23:09 AM EST > To: David Farber > Subject: Re: [IP] $Multi-billion Broadband stimulus decisions imminent > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 07:20:50PM -0500, David Farber wrote: >> >> "The team is mostly policy people and extraordinarily capable but >> mostly non-technical." WHY?? The best way of solving this is to have >> highly technical people included who can say, as I said often at the >> FCC, as Chief Technologist, to pleadings by companies to the >> Chairman, "you are not telling it correctly? " > > Unfortunately, this is true also in the emergency communications area. > Police, fire, EMS, and OEP people are being saddled with radio systems > designed by salesmen and approved by politicians, neither with real > expertise in critical systems. > > The E-911 systems are also seriously deficient for similar reasons. > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > | 73, E-mail | > lrkn@sbcglobal.net | > | Lyn Kennedy > | | > | K5QWB ICBM | 32.5 North 96.9 > West | > ---Livin' on an information FARM road a few miles off the > superhighway--- > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jan 14 09:36:28 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDG00O01TWL73@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:36:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDG00O01TWI6K@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:36:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KDG00K01SNW2E@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:09:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KDG00I8ESNVGH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:09:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26324885D for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:09:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13AF363D02 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:09:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D6AB55 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:02:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7E8B52 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:02:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.198] (c-71-199-97-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.199.97.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0EE245U025590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:02:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:02:04 -0500 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] An update on Pittsburgh Comcast DOCSiS 3.0 installation To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2C73B3E9-3396-4B18-8339-858271EE17F3@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_WHKenvEyqS7xaJe/d8JFGw)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: EF1B5FC2-E243-11DD-AD09-3D14AB975BFC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_WHKenvEyqS7xaJe/d8JFGw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I am told that the DOCSIS 3.0 modem device is in final certification testing and that as part of the upgrade , substantial capacity was added to the network, which is part of the reason why the speeds were increased. In addition they seem now , at least on my facility, to be using acceleration tricks . Stay tunes when I get an upgraded modem (soon I hope) Till then the significantly increased speed is nice MORE MORE. Dave ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_WHKenvEyqS7xaJe/d8JFGw) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I am told that the DOCSIS 3.0 modem  device is in final certification testing and that as part of the upgrade  , substantial capacity was added to the network, which is part of the reason why the speeds were increased. In addition they seem now , at least on my facilit