From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Apr 1 07:07:02 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF002015JNGB@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 07:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF002015JKG6@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 01 Apr 2009 07:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J011O5KB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHF00F7S1O5P5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E81B1E999 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013E81C66E for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0881F025 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 434AA1F017 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n319crfo025865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:38:52 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Perhaps that quote should have been "First, kill all the bankers"?. To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <89454726-E47A-4CCA-B680-E552246574FC@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: ECBDECB0-1EA0-11DE-8549-681A5660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <2E61AE86-7A67-40D4-A9CC-C5BDDD255090@warpspeed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: March 31, 2009 8:09:58 AM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Perhaps that quote should have been "First, = =20 kill all the bankers"?. [Note: This item comes from reader Randall. DLH] =46rom: Randall Date: March 31, 2009 1:36:05 AM PDT To: johnmacsgroup@yahoogroups.com, Dewayne Hendricks Subject: Perhaps that quote should have been "First, kill all the = =20 bankers"?. [[Money Shot: The conventional wisdom among the elite is still that= =20 the current slump =93cannot be as bad as the Great Depression.=94 Thi= s =20 view is wrong. What we face now could, in fact, be worse than the = =20 Great Depression=97because the world is now so much more interconnect= ed =20 and because the banking sector is now so big. We face a synchronized = =20 downturn in almost all countries, a weakening of confidence among = =20 individuals and firms, and major problems for government finances. If= =20 our leadership wakes up to the potential consequences, we may yet see= =20 dramatic action on the banking system and a breaking of the old elite= . =20 Let us hope it is not then too late.]] ---- The crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United =20 States. One of the most alarming, says a former chief economist of th= e =20 International Monetary Fund, is that the finance industry has =20 effectively captured our government=97a state of affairs that more = =20 typically describes emerging markets, and is at the center of many = =20 emerging-market crises. If the IMF=92s staff could speak freely about= =20 the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this =20 situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy= =20 that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true = =20 depression, we=92re running out of time. by Simon Johnson ----------- The Quiet Coup ONE THING YOU learn rather quickly when working at the International = =20 Monetary Fund is that no one is ever very happy to see you. Typically= , =20 your =93clients=94 come in only after private capital has abandoned t= hem, =20 after regional trading-bloc partners have been unable to throw a = =20 strong enough lifeline, after last-ditch attempts to borrow from = =20 powerful friends like China or the European Union have fallen through= . =20 You=92re never at the top of anyone=92s dance card. The reason, of course, is that the IMF specializes in telling its = =20 clients what they don=92t want to hear. I should know; I pressed pain= ful =20 changes on many foreign officials during my time there as chief =20 economist in 2007 and 2008. And I felt the effects of IMF pressure, a= t =20 least indirectly, when I worked with governments in Eastern Europe as= =20 they struggled after 1989, and with the private sector in Asia and = =20 Latin America during the crises of the late 1990s and early 2000s. = =20 Over that time, from every vantage point, I saw firsthand the steady = =20 flow of officials=97from Ukraine, Russia, Thailand, Indonesia, South = =20 Korea, and elsewhere=97trudging to the fund when circumstances were d= ire =20 and all else had failed. Every crisis is different, of course. Ukraine faced hyperinflation in= =20 1994; Russia desperately needed help when its short-term-debt rollove= r =20 scheme exploded in the summer of 1998; the Indonesian rupiah plunged = =20 in 1997, nearly leveling the corporate economy; that same year, South= =20 Korea=92s 30-year economic miracle ground to a halt when foreign bank= s =20 suddenly refused to extend new credit. But I must tell you, to IMF officials, all of these crises looked = =20 depressingly similar. Each country, of course, needed a loan, but mor= e =20 than that, each needed to make big changes so that the loan could = =20 really work. Almost always, countries in crisis need to learn to live= =20 within their means after a period of excess=97exports must be increas= ed, =20 and imports cut=97and the goal is to do this without the most horribl= e =20 of recessions. Naturally, the fund=92s economists spend time figuring= =20 out the policies=97budget, money supply, and the like=97that make sen= se in =20 this context. Yet the economic solution is seldom very hard to work o= ut. No, the real concern of the fund=92s senior staff, and the biggest = =20 obstacle to recovery, is almost invariably the politics of countries = =20 in crisis. Typically, these countries are in a desperate economic situation for = =20 one simple reason=97the powerful elites within them overreached in go= od =20 times and took too many risks. Emerging-market governments and their = =20 private-sector allies commonly form a tight-knit=97and, most of the = =20 time, genteel=97oligarchy, running the country rather like a profit-= =20 seeking company in which they are the controlling shareholders. When = a =20 country like Indonesia or South Korea or Russia grows, so do the = =20 ambitions of its captains of industry. As masters of their mini-=20 universe, these people make some investments that clearly benefit the= =20 broader economy, but they also start making bigger and riskier bets. = =20 They reckon=97correctly, in most cases=97that their political connect= ions =20 will allow them to push onto the government any substantial problems = =20 that arise. In Russia, for instance, the private sector is now in serious trouble= =20 because, over the past five years or so, it borrowed at least $490 = =20 billion from global banks and investors on the assumption that the = =20 country=92s energy sector could support a permanent increase in =20 consumption throughout the economy. As Russia=92s oligarchs spent thi= s =20 capital, acquiring other companies and embarking on ambitious =20 investment plans that generated jobs, their importance to the =20 political elite increased. Growing political support meant better = =20 access to lucrative contracts, tax breaks, and subsidies. And foreign= =20 investors could not have been more pleased; all other things being = =20 equal, they prefer to lend money to people who have the implicit = =20 backing of their national governments, even if that backing gives off= =20 the faint whiff of corruption. But inevitably, emerging-market oligarchs get carried away; they wast= e =20 money and build massive business empires on a mountain of debt. Local= =20 banks, sometimes pressured by the government, become too willing to = =20 extend credit to the elite and to those who depend on them. =20 Overborrowing always ends badly, whether for an individual, a company= , =20 or a country. Sooner or later, credit conditions become tighter and n= o =20 one will lend you money on anything close to affordable terms. The downward spiral that follows is remarkably steep. Enormous =20 companies teeter on the brink of default, and the local banks that = =20 have lent to them collapse. Yesterday=92s =93public-private partnersh= ips=94 =20 are relabeled =93crony capitalism.=94 With credit unavailable, econom= ic =20 paralysis ensues, and conditions just get worse and worse. The =20 government is forced to draw down its foreign-currency reserves to pa= y =20 for imports, service debt, and cover private losses. But these =20 reserves will eventually run out. If the country cannot right itself = =20 before that happens, it will default on its sovereign debt and become= =20 an economic pariah. The government, in its race to stop the bleeding,= =20 will typically need to wipe out some of the national champions=97now = =20 hemorrhaging cash=97and usually restructure a banking system that= =92s gone =20 badly out of balance. It will, in other words, need to squeeze at = =20 least some of its oligarchs. Squeezing the oligarchs, though, is seldom the strategy of choice = =20 among emerging-market governments. Quite the contrary: at the outset = =20 of the crisis, the oligarchs are usually among the first to get extra= =20 help from the government, such as preferential access to foreign = =20 currency, or maybe a nice tax break, or=97here=92s a classic Kremlin = =20 bailout technique=97the assumption of private debt obligations by the= =20 government. Under duress, generosity toward old friends takes many = =20 innovative forms. Meanwhile, needing to squeeze someone, most emergin= g-=20 market governments look first to ordinary working folk=97at least unt= il =20 the riots grow too large. Eventually, as the oligarchs in Putin=92s Russia now realize, some = =20 within the elite have to lose out before recovery can begin. It=92s a= =20 game of musical chairs: there just aren=92t enough currency reserves = to =20 take care of everyone, and the government cannot afford to take over = =20 private-sector debt completely. [snip]RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Apr 1 07:07:03 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF002015JNGB@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 07:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF002015JKG6@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 01 Apr 2009 07:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J011U3V0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHF00G901U2X7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7695F67 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05BB101993 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB22365 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4130163 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n319grpo025925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:42:53 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Judge May Unmask Topix Anonymity -- Plus, the Search Engine Connection To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 88ED7BA0-1EA1-11DE-84DD-AC65D63A059F X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090401001544.GA29735@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: March 31, 2009 8:15:44 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Judge May Unmask Topix Anonymity -- Plus, the Search Engine Connection Judge May Unmask Topix Anonymity -- Plus, the Search Engine Connection http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000530.html Greetings. A Santa Clara County judge has moved a step closer to forcing Topix to release identifying information -- presumably mainly IP addresses -- of anonymous posters in a long-running defamation case ( http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=7213962 ). The implications are both complex and important. The core of the case seems relatively straightforward. A couple was accused, indicted, tried, and acquitted of serious sexual assault charges. Along the way, even before indictments, large numbers of viciously attacking anonymous comments appeared on Topix associated with the case -- more than 25K comments in all. The vindicated couple wants to find out who -- they apparently assume it's actually a relatively small number of individuals -- has been posting those comments, so that they can be pursued for defamation. That's where this all morphs from straightforward to messy and complex, and quickly falls into one of those "just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't true" situations that I bring up so often. Vicious defamation is presumably not a concept that most people would support. But the ability to anonymously comment is important as well -- and U.S. courts have not been terribly consistent on their rulings regarding the appropriate balance between the two. And as other seekers of presumed online miscreants have learned, an IP address alone doesn't necessarily point you at the right person -- not given public terminals and unsecured Wi-Fi access points. Yet as several stories on this case pointed out today, large numbers of highly offensive, factually incorrect attacking comments tend to rise to the beginning of search engine query results, in some cases swamping out any retorts or factual pages and comments -- a situation that could theoretically persist indefinitely. Some Google critics in particular have called for the censorship of search results in situations like this. I view such suggestions as both impractical and unwise. My basic philosophy is that in most cases the cure for "bad" information isn't censorship, but rather bringing *good* information to prominence. However, the manual manipulation of natural search results ordering is not something to be done lightly, and I would argue would be best avoided. There are possible alternatives -- albeit not trivial and noncontroversial ones. I have in the past proposed consideration of a limited and controlled "dispute links" mechanism that would provide a means of informing searchers that top search results contain disputed information ( http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000255.html ). To avoid abuse, such a capability might perhaps only be invoked under court order -- for example, to note that the couple being discussed were already found innocent of all charges. This mechanism would definitely not be simple and a myriad number of complicated issues would come into play. Whether or not in the final analysis it would even be a practical solution is not a foregone conclusion. But consider the parties in play in the Topix case. On one hand we have the couple declared innocent by a court. For them to be forever saddled with these sorts of attacking -- and now demonstrably false -- comments in top search results without any annotations regarding the court case's outcome seems fundamentally unfair. On the other hand, anonymous speech needs a high (though few would argue absolute) bar of protection to avoid all manner of anti-anonymity "scavenger hunts" run amok. So my question becomes, where could "more information" be appropriately and non-disruptively injected into the system to provide the maximal fairness for the aggrieved parties, yet also allow for the appropriate protection of anonymity? Given that search engines are the means by which most people will find their way into such discussions, it seems at the very least prudent to explore whether there are methodologies that search engines could deploy -- whether my "dispute links" concept or something else entirely -- that could help to defuse these dilemmas without tampering with natural search results determinations nor their associated orderings. As always, I welcome your thoughts. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com Twitter: LW1 -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Apr 1 16:13:22 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU4J2@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU0IX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00A019509N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHF004GM950I5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0DEF311 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6B384 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5148379 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n31CNVqP011257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:23:31 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: pro regulation viewpoint on cyber vulnerabiltiy To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <0CEFFBE7-29C7-432A-A000-41C96B5398AE@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Listbox-UUID: F1F13BDA-1EB7-11DE-8498-734FE488361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Vadim Antonov Date: April 1, 2009 7:33:30 AM EDT To: David Farber Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Re: pro regulation viewpoint on cyber vulnerabiltiy David -- for IP, if you wish. The science was never about consensus and "accepted theories". If the argument is sound, it can stand on its own, without recourse to acceptance by any number of credentialed people. The "scientific consensus" is often completely wrong: we still can remember when the coming Ice Age was the consensus, when doctors were certain that stomach ulcers are not caused by bacteria, when it was accepted that non-coding DNA has no function, etc, etc. The truth is, the existence of market failures postulated by most economic textbooks is counterfactual. This statement (accepted by economists of Austrian school) is very easy to falsify: doing so requires only a single clear-cut case of such phenomenon to exist. The fact that no such case was ever offered (not for the lack of trying), is quite telling. It is mainstream economics which is faith-based. It postulates phenomena which do not exist, and relies on logical and mathematical fallacies (such as averaging on collections of non-additive quantities, which is the basis of all econometrics). Most of what is taught in economic schools is plain old pseudoscience. The Austrian school is demonstrably unpopular among academic economists - it, essentially, says that the detailed predictions of economic developments are impossible - so all the fancy mathematics built by manistream economists has no bearing whatsoever on the reality. In this respect Austrian economics is very similar to the evolution theory. It is, to a large extent, qualitative. We know that when environment changes the living things will adapt to the new environment; we can make some guesses about how they will look like, but we cannot predict with quantitative certainity their forms and adaptations. The business people, those who care more about making money in the real market rather than about playing with fancy models, are significantly more enthusisastic about Austrian economics - it has proven its worth by predicting and explaining every major economic event, from Great Depression on, and including the current crisis. The Internet is a wonderful conservation machine - you can easily find, for example, public statements made by mainstream economists and by Austrian economists (such as Peter Schiff) few years ago and check the accuracy of their predictions. This is why Austrian books are now on bestseller lists (the latest one is "Meltdown" by Thomas Woods). Finally, the Windows example - the argument that people buy insecure operating system while lower-cost more secure one exists and this somehow demonstrates that market is failing to provide for their needs is logically fallacious. It contains the hidden assumption that the security is the only factor which makes an operating system valuable. The reality, of course, is that people choose operating systems on the basis of functionality they need, and the functionality is defined by applications. Windows has lots of applications; orders of magnitude more than Linux and other OSes. The very inability of Microsoft to drastically improve security of the system comes from the fact that Microsoft does not want to break compatibility with application software - and thus reduce its value to end users. This has absolutely nothing to do with imaginary "market control" - if users do care about security as much as publicity-seeking security experts say, and somebody figures out a way to run the same applications, but in a secure fashion, he will steal Microsoft's market in no time. In fact, my current employer (Symantec - I am a security expert) is a multibillion business built around making Windows more secure, and does a rather good job of making it good enough for most users. This is not a case of market failure; it is a case of techincal impossibility to offer Windows APIs while making the system as secure as Unix - so users are forced to choose between security and compatibility. The situation gradually improves, from both directions (Miscrosoft gradually introduces better APIs, while Linux accumulates application software). Thinking that some bureaucrats in Washington can help to resolve this technical conundrum by regulating software business is, well, naive. There's a lot of smart people in Silicon Valley and Seattle who were and are keenly aware of the problem and spent years working on it - and made some impressive progress, many years before any federal busybody knew how to spell "buffer overflow". (In fact, Microsoft dominance is partly due to the government-propped "intellectual property" regime; trademarks, copyrights, and patents are nothing more than temporary monopoly grants by the government. Thus, again, we have a good reason to qualify it as government failure.) --vadim > > From: Dave Wilson > Date: March 31, 2009 11:11:39 AM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Cc: ip > Subject: Re: [IP] Re: pro regulation viewpoint on cyber vulnerabiltiy > > Speaking solely for myself: Forgive me, but engaging in debates about > whether market failures can exist without government distorting the > market are a little like having an argument about Creation Science: It > flies in the face of accepted theory, it ignores demonstrable fact, > and since it's a faith based argument, nobody's mind will get changed. > > Here's an example of market failure that doesn't have anything to do > with government intervention in a market: Microsoft's Windows > operating system dominates the market for workstations. Other > operating systems are known to have identical capabilities, but are > far more secure (and in fact are less expensive), yet Windows > continues to dominate the market. Why? Because the company has market > control (as was established during a decade of excruciating antitrust > investigation); free market theory says Microsoft would either fix > Windows, or consumers would stop using it and immediately leave for > other, safer systems. The fact that this has not happened, despite the > widespread acknowledgment of the data I've stated above, is a classic > market failure. > > -dave -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Apr 1 16:13:23 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU4J2@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU0IX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00M01E5K40@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHF00K6OE5JFH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435541E7D4 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360C81C629 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FAD1FAE8 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 966A11FAE3 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n31EARcD002927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:10:29 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] UltraDNS service knocked offline by attack - Network World To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: DBBD8CA6-1EC6-11DE-B1AC-8B1B5660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/033109-ultradns-service-attacked.html?netht=ts_040109&nladname=040109dailynewsamal UltraDNS service knocked offline by attack NeuStar confirms 'significant' denial of service attack on Tuesday morning By Carolyn Duffy Marsan , Network World , 03/31/2009 NeuStar confirmed that some of its UltraDNS managed DNS service customers were knocked offline for several hours Tuesday morning by a distributed denial of service attack. "Early this morning, our monitoring systems detected a significant denial of service attack, which affected a small subset of our customers, in some cases for as long as a few hours," the Reston, Va. company said in a statement. "While we continue to investigate the cause, the extent, and the duration of the attack, service was completely restored by 10 a.m. EST." -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Apr 1 16:13:24 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU4J2@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU0IX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00N01EJYUM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:21:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHF00MAHEJX4J@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C5C5C26 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF4DD113A4 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CEF1BF03 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FC961BEED for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n31EARcE002927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:11:11 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: pro regulation viewpoint on cyber vulnerabiltiy To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: F4A557C6-1EC6-11DE-872B-55495C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Newmedia@aol.com Date: April 1, 2009 8:51:14 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [IP] Re: pro regulation viewpoint on cyber vulnerabiltiy Vadim: In fact, Microsoft's focus on improving the security capabilities of WIndows starting in 2000 was the direct result of government intervention. This was the primary issue "resolved" by the DoJ anti- trust case, as I suspect some people at Symantec who can attest. As the NSA representative at the last Comdex show told me, roughly 50 people from NSA "decamped" to the Redmond campus in mid-2000 and had remained there "on a rotating basis" from then on. Btw, he told me this in making the argument that Microsoft was not installing "backdoors" as the Chinese and others feared. Teaching Microsoft how to develop code that would pass Common Criteria tests was a part of the task, as well as the topic of the NSA booth at Comdex. I am not making an argument regarding "market failure" here and generally agree with your comments. Mark Stahlman New York City -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Apr 1 16:13:25 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU4J2@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU0IX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00401PSFC4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHF00398PSFKB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C8C975 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DC71B8D3 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 932E81B8C9 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n31IMcSS015167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:23:21 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: pro regulation viewpoint on cyber vulnerabiltiy To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <1F57789B-BDCF-4565-B281-BAB13BCCC096@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_IhlHJadHC4J0RW4BKhJUgQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 32565CFA-1EEA-11DE-833D-5B525C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_IhlHJadHC4J0RW4BKhJUgQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Newmedia@aol.com Date: April 1, 2009 12:03:51 PM EDT To: bmeeks@cox.net, dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: pro regulation viewpoint on cyber vulnerabiltiy Brock: I think it is widely understood that a) Microsoft "lost" as much as two years in its development of Vista learning how to write "secure" software and b) that the security configuration requirements in Vista were among the more obnoxious aspects of the OS Windows 7 (i.e. Vista- Lite) revamps much of this. In addition, from what I can tell, many people in the programming world nowadays consider Microsoft to be a first-class software development shop -- in part due to this exhaustive internal re- training effort. Based on many conversations I've had with folks in the security world, Microsoft now gets pretty high marks. Lastly, Microsoft's largest customer is/was the US Army. Meeting Common Criteria tests is pretty important in that world. COTS kinda forces the Pentagon to use Windows, it seems. None of that speaks to the everyday issues of trying to get people to wise-up and not download viruses and the problems of securing legacy- compatible APIs. Mark Stahlman New York City New Low Prices on Dell Laptops - Starting at $399 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_IhlHJadHC4J0RW4BKhJUgQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date= : April 1, 2009 12:03:51 PM EDT
Subject: Re: [IP= ] Re:     pro = regulation viewpoint on cyber vulnerabiltiy

Brock:
 
I think it is widely unde= rstood that a) Microsoft "lost" as much as two years in its developme= nt of Vista learning how to write "secure" software and b) that the s= ecurity configuration requirements in Vista were among the more obnox= ious aspects of the OS  Windows 7 (i.e. Vista-Lite) re= vamps much of this.
 
In addition, from wh= at I can tell, many people in the programming world nowadays consider= Microsoft to be a first-class software development shop -- in p= art due to this exhaustive internal re-training effort.  Ba= sed on many conversations I've had with folks in the security world, = Microsoft now gets pretty high marks.
 
La= stly, Microsoft's largest customer is/was the US Army.  Meeting = Common Criteria tests is pretty important in that world.  COTS k= inda forces the Pentagon to use Windows, it seems.
 <= /div>
None of that speaks to the everyday issues of trying to ge= t people to wise-up and not download viruses and the problems of secu= ring legacy-compatible APIs. 
 
Mark= Stahlman
New York City
 
 = ;

New Low Prices o= n Dell Laptops - Starting at $399

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_IhlHJadHC4J0RW4BKhJUgQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Apr 1 16:13:26 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU4J2@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU0IX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00401PUOKK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHF0014VPUOJP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DEA81E56B for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4181CEC7 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65F5D6B for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.41]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46ADE6A for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n31IMcSR015167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:22:35 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: who write the wall street software? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3184B03F-669B-4498-9D73-DCAD9895A259@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_elFvBpOJ/4+p2JMJiwztgQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.185.41 X-Listbox-UUID: 1DDADC6A-1EEA-11DE-A8F8-25F7E388361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <04c301c9b2ec$e7440370$b5cc0a50$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_elFvBpOJ/4+p2JMJiwztgQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: April 1, 2009 1:11:30 PM EDT To: , "'ip'" Subject: RE: [IP] who write the wall street software? This reminds me of people attempting to explain hedges to me back in = =20 the 60=92s or 70=92s. They said that you invest in Plan B so if Plan = A =20 failed you=92d limit your losses. I accepted that but asked whether t= hat =20 isn=92t just another way of saying you=92d accept a lower return for = lower =20 risk. They said no because =85 I was either too dumb to understand or they were trying to explain ho= w =20 they finally solved the problem of perpetual motion. As Mlodinow = =20 observed in The Drunkard=92s Walk statistically some of those people = =20 turned out to have guessed right and thus the idea was =93proven=94. = Sort =20 of like having 10 people walk across a busy street blindfolded and = =20 using the existence of a sole survivor to prove it is a good idea. -----Original Message----- =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 16:08 To: ip Subject: [IP] who write the wall street software? Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Thomas Lord Date: March 31, 2009 12:48:09 PM EDT To: David Farber , mary_shaw@cs.cmu.edu Subject: who write the wall street software? I think IP readers would like this: I AGREE djf http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=3Dcpt&title=3DMy +Manhattan+Project&expire=3D&urlID=3D35003522&fb=3DY&url=3Dhttp% 3A//nymag.com/news/business/55687/&partnerID=3D73272 The article is titled "My Manhattan Project" and it's by Michael Osinski. Quote: "I wrote the software that turned mortgages into bonds." The article raises many interesting questions, in my opinion, about engineering ethics (and journalistic ethics). -t ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_elFvBpOJ/4+p2JMJiwztgQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: April 1, 2= 009 1:11:30 PM EDT
<= font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 1= 2.0px Helvetica; color: #000000">Subject: RE: [IP= ] who write the wall street software?

This reminds me of people attempting to explain hedges = to me back in the 60=92s or 70=92s. They said that you invest in Plan= B so if Plan A failed you=92d limit your losses. I accepted that but= asked whether that isn=92t just another way of saying you=92d accept= a lower return for lower risk. They said no because =85
 
I was either = too dumb to understand or they were trying to explain how they finall= y solved the problem of perpetual motion. As Mlodinow observed in The Drunkard=92s Wa= lk statisticall= y some of those people turned out to have guessed right and thus the = idea was =93proven=94. Sort of like having 10 people walk across a bu= sy street blindfolded and using the existence of a sole survivor to p= rove it is a good idea.
 
-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber= .net] 
Sent:= Tuesday, March 31, 2009 16:08
To: ip
Subject: [IP] who write t= he wall street software?
 
 <= /div>
 
Begin forwarded message:
 
From: Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net<= /a>>
Subject: who write the= wall street software?
 
I think I= P readers would like this:  I AGREE djf
&nbs= p;
+Manhattan+Project&expire=3D&a= mp;urlID=3D35003522&fb=3DY&url=3Dhttp%
3A//nym= ag.com/news/business/55687/&partnerID=3D73272
 
 
The article is titled "My Man= hattan Project" and it's
by Michael Osinski.  Quo= te: "I wrote the software that
turned mortgages into b= onds."
 
The article raises many i= nteresting questions,
in my opinion, about engineering= ethics (and
journalistic ethics).
 
-t
 
 =
 
 
 =
 
 
-----------= --------------------------------
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--Boundary_(ID_elFvBpOJ/4+p2JMJiwztgQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Apr 1 16:13:28 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU4J2@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00J01UU0IX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHF00401Q1VWR@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHF003BQQ1VKB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFC61E16D for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2723319AA93 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF12BA5 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8C6A4 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n31IP80Q026954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:25:05 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] who write the wall street software?Better URL To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 765C89C4-1EEA-11DE-B449-C9FDE388361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200904011554.n31FsLS22059@viper.oldcity.dca.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: David Byrden Date: April 1, 2009 11:54:16 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] who write the wall street software? Dave: This is a non-broken link to the article mentioned (which is at nymag.com) http://tinyurl.com/d626x6 David Byrden > From: Thomas Lord > Date: March 31, 2009 12:48:09 PM EDT > > Subject: who write the wall street software? > The article is titled "My Manhattan Project" and it's > by Michael Osinski. Quote: "I wrote the software that > turned mortgages into bonds." -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 06:52:41 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00101ZJQLQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00101ZJNLL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00E01SXKWD@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHG00E33SXKOC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 521081E6FA for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD4B2625 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E67DD7 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8CEADD6 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n328PDsl013888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:25:57 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] New Rules for a New Age: Creating an 'Economic Stimulus Agency' out of the FCC To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <175D8DA4-72E4-427C-A0F5-E421D3BB5DDC@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: E7081D80-1F5F-11DE-AB9F-FBE4E388361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <1050054214.7131238660452510.JavaMail.LOCKE$@smtp-relay.wharton.upenn.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 New Rules for a New Age: Creating an 'Economic Stimulus Agency' out of the FCC http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/index.cfm?fa=viewfeature&id=2197 Wharton legal studies and business ethics professor Kevin Werbach recently worked with the Obama administration's transition team on a review of the Federal Communications Commission and related technology and telecommunications issues. In an interview with Knowledge@Wharton, he says that advances in technology and the urgent need to restart the economy require the commission to rethink its role -- not just as a regulator, but as an agency that creates jobs and encourages investment. Visit http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/index.cfm?fa=viewfeature&id=2197 for the complete story. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 06:52:42 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00101ZJQLQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00101ZJNLL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00E01SYYY4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:30:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHG00E47SYXOC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70ABF5C5B for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938FF1234C for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2109A1F959 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6791F950 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n328PDsk013888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:25:12 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Reflecting on regulations and markets and (cyber)security To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <0D5DC6E9-677E-49AD-8F7C-CC7F67BA98FF@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_T3SIqcQxSiF3t7riX3IKBw)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: CDD393E4-1F5F-11DE-BD4C-C1865660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <055c01c9b336$2dfb7570$89f26050$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_T3SIqcQxSiF3t7riX3IKBw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: April 1, 2009 9:56:02 PM EDT To: , "'ip'" Subject: Reflecting on regulations and markets and (cyber)security I feel obliged to respond to some of the recent posts about market = =20 failures and attempts to blame =93them=94 for cyber-security failures= . We need to be careful about confusing economists=92 models with reali= ty. =20 It=92s like confusing the Regulatorium=92s term =93call completion= =94 with the =20 normal social meaning. The former is about the other phone ringing an= d =20 the latter is about having the call answered by another human. In = =20 reading about =93market failure=94 the economists=92 use of the term = seems =20 to be quaint at best. I=92m not sure what is meant by =93free market = =20 theory=94 either. They both seem to assume there are simple absolute = =20 metrics of the kind I associate with intelligent design. In practice markets, like evolution, don=92t have any particular = =20 direction or promises. And there are many ecological niches and marke= t =20 configurations. Let=92s not confuse a few examples and simplistic mod= els =20 with the larger concepts. What we can do is try to understand how = =20 systems work and how they respond to constraints. It=92s also importa= nt =20 to understand the specifics of different configurations and identify = =20 our metrics. I consider telecom to be a dysfunctional marketplaces because it = =20 creates an inherent conflict of interest in its current configuration= =20 and captures value that would create more value to society if we had = a =20 different funding model. I posted comments about Walgreens=92 pricing= of =20 memory stick to show that particular inefficiencies are normal and we= =20 need to be wary about judging markets. Markets necessarily exist within the context of governments. Jared = =20 Diamond=92s books, Guns, Germs and Steel, and Collapse provide useful= =20 lessons in governance and markets. The cooperation that we associate = =20 with functioning markets are a form of governance. But governance in = =20 itself doesn=92t guarantee that markets will function well according = to =20 measures like minimizing pollution. As with evolution our ability to = =20 predict results let alone assure them is very limited. The tirade against Windows ignores realities and the basics of =20 business. One is the question of what measure we use for =93best=94 = =96 =20 adopting a platform and having a body of knowledge about how to use i= t =20 is, in itself, a very positive reason for adopting a given operating = =20 system. You can=92t compare the bits out of context. The second point= is =20 barriers to entry are indeed part of doing business. While I complain= =20 about telecom holding value captive, it=92s a very specific example. = =20 Businesses need to capture at least some of the value of their effort= s =20 and you need a long time base for products. In fact customers complai= n =20 if the update cycle for products is too fast. Stability in itself is = a =20 value. Cyber-security isn=92t a simple thing and it=92s about more than the = =20 network. It=92s also about social patterns and usage. There is a role= =20 for laws and regulations but I=92d be very wary about assuming we can= =20 legislate a solution to complex problems. I share some of the others=92 frustrations though, as Mark Stahlman h= as =20 point out Windows is not necessarily na=EFve. I don=92t see why we wo= uld =20 assume that Unix is necessarily more =93secure=94. I tend to think th= at =20 improvement lies in the direction of rethinking the role of operating= =20 systems rather than choosing a =93better=94 one. But that=92s another= topic. ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_T3SIqcQxSiF3t7riX3IKBw) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: April 1, 2= 009 9:56:02 PM EDT
<= font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 1= 2.0px Helvetica; color: #000000">Subject: Reflect= ing on regulations and markets and (cyber)security

I feel obliged to respond to some of = the recent posts about market failures and attempts to blame =93them= =94 for cyber-security failures.
 
We need to be careful about confus= ing economists=92 models with reality. It=92s like confusing the Regu= latorium=92s term =93call completion=94 with the normal social meanin= g. The former is about the other phone ringing and the latter is abou= t having the call answered by another human. In reading about =93market failure=94 the economis= ts=92 use of the term seems to be quaint at best. I=92m not sure what= is meant by =93free market theory=94 either. They both seem to assum= e there are simple absolute metrics of the kind I associate with inte= lligent design.
 
In practice markets, like evolution, don=92t have any = particular direction or promises. And there are many ecological niche= s and market configurations. Let=92s not confuse a few examples and s= implistic models with the larger concepts. What we can do is try to u= nderstand how systems work and how they respond to constraints. It= =92s also important to understand the specifics of different configur= ations and identify our metrics.
 
I consider telecom to be a dysfunc= tional marketplaces because it creates an inherent conflict of intere= st in its current configuration and captures value that would create = more value to society if we had a different funding model. I posted c= omments about Walgreens=92 pricing of memory stick to show that parti= cular inefficiencies are normal and we need to be wary about judging = markets.
 
Markets necessarily exist within the context of governments. = Jared Diamond=92s books, <= /span>Guns, Germs and Steel, and Collapse provide useful lessons in governance and markets. T= he cooperation that we associate with functioning markets are a form = of governance. But governance in itself doesn=92t guarantee that mark= ets will function well according to measures like minimizing pollutio= n. As with evolution our ability to predict results let alone assure = them is very limited.
 
The tirade against Windows ignores realities a= nd the basics of business. One is the question of what measure we use= for =93best=94 =96 adopting a platform and having a body of knowledg= e about how to use it is, in itself, a very positive reason for adopt= ing a given operating system. You can=92t compare the bits out of con= text. The second point is barriers to entry are indeed part of doing = business. While I complain about telecom holding value captive, it= =92s a very specific example. Businesses need to capture at least som= e of the value of their efforts and you need a long time base for pro= ducts. In fact customers complain if the update cycle for products is= too fast. Stability in itself is a value.
 
=
Cyber-security isn=92t a si= mple thing and it=92s about more than the network. It=92s also about = social patterns and usage. There is a role for laws and regulations b= ut I=92d be very wary about assuming we can legislate a solution to c= omplex problems.
 
I share some of the others=92 frustrations though, as= Mark Stahlman has point out Windows is not necessarily na=EFve. I do= n=92t see why we would assume that Unix is necessarily more =93secure= =94. I tend to think that improvement lies in the direction of rethin= king the role of operating systems rather than choosing a =93better= =94 one. But that=92s another topic.
<= span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; "> 
 

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_T3SIqcQxSiF3t7riX3IKBw)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 06:52:43 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00101ZJQLQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00101ZJNLL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00F01T8VHX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHG00EA4T8VOC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DFFC5B47 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F67A2C58 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 792F01FBA0 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4FA1FB81 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n328XJY0013961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:33:18 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] our economy explained! To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <98560ACA-59B6-428C-AECF-8CAC094587DD@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: EF391EC2-1F60-11DE-AE86-AA355660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <000501c9b2ff$d33face0$79bf06a0$@com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "George Margolin" Date: April 1, 2009 3:26:52 PM EDT To: "'David Farber'" Subject: FW: our economy explained! Reply-To: Dave =96 I have NEVER sent a broadcast email before. But THIS one is= =20 clever, and sadly =96 probably accurate in explaining our financial = =20 meltdown. And having been born in Detroit =96 and having worked my way through = =20 college in many of the auto plants =96 it has =91AHAA!=94 =96 writte= n all =20 over it. IF you haven=92t seen it I thought you=92d enjoy it and do with it wh= at =20 you will. Best regards from an appreciative recipient of your list. Regards, George Margolin inventor@pobox.com Subject: our economy explained! =7F It all makes sense now, Subject: Derivative markets, an understandable explanation Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Detroit . In order to increase sales, she decides to allow her loyal customers - most of whom are unemployed alcoholics - to drink now but pay later. She keeps track o= f the drinks consumed on a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans= ). Word gets around about Heidi's drink now pay later marketing strategy and as a result, increasing numbers of customers flood into Heidi's b= ar and soon she has the largest sale volume for any bar in Detroit . By providing her customers' freedom from immediate payment demands, Heidi gets no resistance when she substantially increases her prices for wine and beer, the most consumed beverages. Her sales volume increases massively. A young and dynamic vice-president at the local bank recognizes these customer debts as valuable future assets and increases Heidi's borrowing limit. He sees no reason for undue concern since he has th= e debts of the alcoholics as collateral. At the bank's corporate headquarters, expert traders transform these customer loans into DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS. These securities are then traded on security markets worldwide. Naive investors don't really understand the securities being sold to them a= s AAA secured bonds are really the debts of unemployed alcoholics. Nevertheless, their prices continuously climb, and the securities become the top-selling items for some of the nation's leading brokera= ge houses. One day, although the bond prices are still climbing, a risk manager = at the bank (subsequently fired due his negativity), decides that the ti= me has come to demand payment on the debts incurred by the drinkers at Heidi's. Heidi demands payment from her alcoholic patrons, but being unemployed they cannot pay back their drinking debts. Therefore, Heid= i cannot fulfill her loan obligations and claims bankruptcy. DRINKBOND and ALKIBOND drop in price by 90 %. PUKEBOND performs bette= r, stabilizing in price after dropping by 80 %. The decreased bond asset value destroys the banks liquidity and prevents it from issuing new loans. The suppliers of Heidi's bar, having granted her generous payment extensions and having invested in the securities are faced with writi= ng off her debt and losing over 80% on her bonds. Her wine supplier clai= ms bankruptcy, her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor, who immediately closes the local plant and lays off 50 workers. The bank and brokerage houses are saved by the Government following dramatic round-the-clock negotiations by leaders from both political parties. The funds required for this bailout are obtained by a tax levied on employed middle-class non-drinkers. Finally an explanation I understand ..... A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 07:17:55 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH004010PS7W@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH004010PP7J@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHG00201ZRT2V@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHG0012BZRTQL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 686BC5F69 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 443AC55BD for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0853A1B56E for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4311B569 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n32AsL0K015669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:54:20 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Video of the session at CERT Technical Symposium on 10 March -- Reinventing the Internet - Can We and How Would We? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3E756B0A-3188-41F8-84AD-A289D0390FF7@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: A0739B0A-1F74-11DE-A8F3-3D235C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <5F75BA9581CE2F47A3D9496818F2BC7B0148E52213F2@EXCHANGE.sei.cmu.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 mms://wms.andrew.cmu.edu/001/CERT1_Session3.wmv Reinventing the Internet - Can We and How Would We? It has been said that no one engineered the Internet; rather it was cobbled together over time to address real and emerging needs. That cobbling built on the work of those who laid the foundations and necessarily required compromises to maintain compatibility. This panel will explore the hard problems challenging the Internet as we know it today, what we might do differently and how best to realize the next evolution of the Internet. The panelists have been asked to address what they see as the security challenges that must be addressed to ensure the continued viability of the Internet and how best to respond to those challenges. Moderator: David Farber, Distinguished Career Professor of Computer Science and Public Policy Panelists: Steve Crocker, CEO of Shinkuro, Inc. Larry Roberts, Chairman of Anagran, Inc. Paul Mockapetris, Chief Scientist and Chairman of the Board at Nominum, Inc. Guru Parulkar, Executive Director of the Clean Slate Internet Design Program and Consulting -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 13:19:27 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH00I01HGD52@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH00I01HG94T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH00A013W876@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHH006833W8KJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDB81E1CB for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27AC191B6 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E42CC790 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B3278E for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n32CKgTV000856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:20:42 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] A Video of the excellent lunch talk by Jonathan Zittrain at the CERT Technical Symposium on 11 March To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <21922598-CAA8-49AB-AAF9-D3171E64075A@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: B1369170-1F80-11DE-869D-D214E488361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <5F75BA9581CE2F47A3D9496818F2BC7B0148E52213F2@EXCHANGE.sei.cmu.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Jonathan Zittrain is the Co-Director, Harvard Law School's Berkman Center for Internet & Society mms://wms.andrew.cmu.edu/001/CERT2_Luncheon.wmv -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 13:19:28 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH00I01HGD52@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH00I01HG94T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH00H01H4RBM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHH00FB8H4QK7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5E86EF2 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D27711BF8 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487AA1B69C for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990DC1B689 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n32H7B1Q029692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:07:15 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Location-sharing Services Study To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_gIzVBL2I64MizTo+6BiqyQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: B70D9BAC-1FA8-11DE-A998-BA105C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <9435a1fc0904020848m3bdc4c5bi3cd3e823b7c908c6@mail.gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_gIzVBL2I64MizTo+6BiqyQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Janice Tsai Date: April 2, 2009 11:48:11 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Location-sharing Services Study Have Dave, I'm conducting a study on the risk-benefit perceptions of location- sharing technologies. If you deem it appropriate, please share the information below with the IP list. Thank you! ________________________ Fill out a 15 minute survey on location sharing! The purpose of this survey is to examine your personal perceptions about new location-sharing technologies. You must be over the age of 18. You will be entered into a raffle for a $75 Amazon.com gift certificate! http://carnegiemellon.location.sgizmo.com ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_gIzVBL2I64MizTo+6BiqyQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Janice Tsai <jytsai@an= drew.cmu.edu>
Date: April 2, 2009 11:48:11 AM EDT=

Hav= e Dave,

I'm conducting a study on the risk-benefit perceptions= of location-sharing technologies.  If you deem it appropriate, = please share the information below with the IP list.

Thank you= !



Archives
--Boundary_(ID_gIzVBL2I64MizTo+6BiqyQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 23:11:31 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00O018V28R@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00O018UZ8K@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH00O01V15FN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHH00KFIV156A@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACFC1EAC6 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 061131DEB6 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3248F1B130 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FC811B11E for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n32MA6ka023612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:10:05 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Truly Disturbing TSA Recording To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <40A2BB66-2037-4A34-A139-C04A7425814A@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_I6UIeIkipcBZzw98JlXU/w)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 0993700C-1FD3-11DE-ABEA-C13A5C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_I6UIeIkipcBZzw98JlXU/w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: No-Name Date: April 2, 2009 5:49:36 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording "Man detained and harassed at airport for carrying CASH!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMB6L487LHM&feature=channel_page ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_I6UIeIkipcBZzw98JlXU/w) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: No-Name <labmanager@gma= il.com>
Date: April 2, 2009 5:49:36 PM EDT
To: <= /font>dave@farber.net
Subj= ect: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording

"Man detained= and harassed at airport for carrying CASH!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXMB6L487LHM&feature=3Dchannel_= page




Archives
--Boundary_(ID_I6UIeIkipcBZzw98JlXU/w)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 23:11:32 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00O018V28R@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00O018UZ8K@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH00501XUXAC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHH001C5XUXOQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9291E3D8 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00897260B4 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08E569 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B84E65 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n32N4PxL014024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:04:38 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Sling Media Slings Bull at Slingbox Faithful To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: B6273662-1FDA-11DE-9C2E-AD2CB011A7C4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090402221141.GA10970@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: April 2, 2009 6:11:41 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Sling Media Slings Bull at Slingbox Faithful Sling Media Slings Bull at Slingbox Faithful http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000533.html Greetings. Sling Media, purveyors of the popular "Slingbox" line of devices that stream home television or other video/audio sources over the Internet, have just slung a smelly slug of excrement at their loyal customers and fans. Slingboxes permit users to quickly and easily stream content from -- and pretty fully remotely control -- their home cable boxes, TiVos, and the like. Because it's a hardware-based solution, it has proven much easier to use than free software-based systems such as "Orb" (which require capture cards and significant CPU resources) for many users, this despite Sling's move to encrypted data streams that shut out "unofficial" player applications. While the primary modality of Slingbox usage is streaming to specialized programs and embedded Web players (which have been included with the cost of the device), a big attraction of Slingbox has been its mobile apps -- such as the Slingbox player for Windows Mobile cell phones -- which actually works remarkably well, even at quite low, non-3G speeds. Even though this is an extra-cost item, it has proven to be very popular. For months now in the Slingbox world, anticipation has been riding high in anticipation of an iPhone version of the Slingbox mobile app, and speculation has been rampant that an Android version (e.g., for the HTC/Google G1 cell phone) is also in the works. But now comes word from Sling -- not an April's Fools joke unfortunately, that the iPhone app will only be compatible with new model (mostly HD-oriented) Slingboxes, and that owners of existing models will be out in the cold. Many Slingbox owners are livid, and it's easy to see why. We already *know* that Sling streams will play just dandy at low speeds, even into limited architectures like Windows Mobile. To allow for backwards compatible streaming of standard definition video into the mobile applications for the iPhone or other mobile platforms simply cannot be a rocket science level project. So there is only one likely reason that Sling Media is going down this non-backwards-compatible path -- simple greed. The first indications of Sling Media's greedy nature surfaced when they locked down their data to try prevent the implementation of unapproved applications, as noted above. But with Sling's new incompatibility manifesto, we see their greed in its full flowering, and what it portends for the future of the Slingbox platform is not at all encouraging. Rather than upgrading to newer Sling devices, I would urge current Slingbox owners -- and anyone else thinking about the purchase of Sling Media products, to instead wherever possible consider the use of Orb or similar services that operate using standard protocols, and devote whatever time and resources that they can to the development of open source software-based and hardware-based Internet video streaming systems. Sling Media's proprietary approach is no longer acceptable. As it stands right now, as far as I'm concerned, Sling has slung its last. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com Twitter: LW1 -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 23:11:33 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00O018V28R@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00O018UZ8K@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHH00501XUSA4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHH001C2XUROQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21A21E3A5 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39DE26085 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD1C1BB8A for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845D81BB7F for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n32N4PxK014024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:04:19 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] A Visit to BlackBerry App World To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <555EFE29-0932-4321-A49F-A8CF2BD27D42@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_eMQ0owkqxqybD7iVh6Vo5A)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 9E8522BC-1FDA-11DE-9C03-3A225C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_eMQ0owkqxqybD7iVh6Vo5A) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Jonathan B Spira" Date: April 2, 2009 6:25:29 PM EDT To: David Farber Subject: A Visit to BlackBerry App World Dave Research in Motion opened up their answer to Apple=B4s App Store (and= =20 Google=B4s Android Marketplace) this week: BlackBerry App World. It = =20 still has a long way to go to catch up with Apple, however. "BlackBerry App World is now open for business. The new application = =20 store is available from BlackBerry smartphones with a trackball or = =20 touchscreen such as the Pearl, Bold, Curve, and Storm; it does not = =20 support older BlackBerry devices with side wheels, which means that = =20 millions of knowledge workers with these models cannot benefit from = =20 what the store has to offer without replacing their hardware." http://www.basexblog.com/2009/04/02/test-drive-blackberry-app-world/ Regards/Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen/Sz=EDv=E9lyes =FCdv=F6zlet/Cordia= lement/=20 Cordiali saluti/Saludos/V=E4nliga h=E4lsningar /s/ Jonathan Jonathan B. Spira CEO and Chief Analyst Basex, Inc. 8 http://www.basex.com ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_eMQ0owkqxqybD7iVh6Vo5A) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Jonathan B Spira" <jspira@= basex.com>
Date: April 2, 2009 6:25:29 PM EDT<= /font>
To: David Farber <d= ave@farber.net>
Subject: A Visit to BlackBer= ry App World
<= br>

Dave =

Research in Motion open= ed up their answer to Apple=B4s App Store (and Google=B4s Android Mar= ketplace) this week: BlackBerry App World.  It still has a long = way to go to catch up with Apple, however.


"BlackBerry A= pp World is now open for business.  The new application store is= available from BlackBerry smartphones with a trackball or touchscree= n such as the Pearl, Bold, Curve, and Storm; it does not support olde= r BlackBerry devices with side wheels, which means that millions of k= nowledge workers with these models cannot benefit from what the store= has to offer without replacing their hardware."<SNIP> <= br>
http://www.b= asexblog.com/2009/04/02/test-drive-blackberry-app-world/ <= br>

Regards/Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen/Sz=EDv=E9ly= es =FCdv=F6zlet/Cordialement/Cordiali saluti/Saludos/V=E4nliga h=E4ls= ningar

/s/ Jonathan

Jonathan B. Spira
CEO and Chief Analyst
Basex, Inc= .
8 http://www.basex.com

<= br>
Archives
--Boundary_(ID_eMQ0owkqxqybD7iVh6Vo5A)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Apr 2 23:11:34 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00O018V28R@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00O018UZ8K@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00F0131MNS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHI00DI531MLK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6AA41E88D for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C92542CC2F for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ABC11BCC4 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3990A1BCB9 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n330wvC6026857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:58:59 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Had enough yet? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <1E12EC46-FB6E-4347-B5D2-003F9F8D696E@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_xoYonYLeIf0fAZt9FMI0FQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 9E7286B0-1FEA-11DE-A888-23365C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_xoYonYLeIf0fAZt9FMI0FQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Randall Webmail Date: April 2, 2009 7:41:14 PM EDT To: johnmacsgroup@yahoogroups.com, dewayne@warpspeed.com Cc: dave@farber.net Subject: Had enough yet? Merrill Lynch Bonuses Were 22 Times the Size Of AIG's By Megan Slack, Huffington Post Posted on March 31, 2009, Printed on April 2, 2009 http://www.alternet.org/story/134235/ Dennis Kucinich sent out a round of letters to top Treasury officials= =20 Monday morning, questioning how much they knew about bonuses paid to = =20 Merrill Lynch executives that totaled $3.62 billion, nearly 22 times = =20 the total bonuses paid to AIG executives. The payouts made up more = =20 that 36 percent of the TARP funds the financial institution received = =20 =66rom the Federal government. Kucinich points out that unlike AIG, the bonuses were not locked in b= y =20 preexisting contracts and were performance bonuses, as opposed to = =20 retention bonuses. The Merrill bonuses were 22 times larger than those paid by AIG = =20 ($3,620 million versus $165 million). They were also very large =20 relative to the TARP monies allocated to Merrill. The Merrill bonuses= =20 were the equivalent of 36.2% of TARP monies Treasury allocated to = =20 Merrill and awarded to BOA after their merger. The bonuses, awarded = =20 mostly as cash, were made only to top management at Merrill. To be = =20 eligible for the bonuses, Merrill employees had to have a salary of a= t =20 least $300,000 and attained the title of Vice President or higher. The Merrill bonuses were determined by Merrill's Compensation = =20 Committee at its meeting of December 8, 2008, shortly after BOA =20 shareholders approved the merger but before financial results for the= =20 Fourth Quarter had been determined. This appears to be a departure = =20 =66rom normal company practice, since the type of bonus Merrill award= ed =20 was a performance bonus that, according to company policy, was =20 supposed to reflect all four quarters of performance and was paid in = =20 January or later. In this case, however, the bonuses were awarded in = =20 December before Fourth Quarter performance had been determined. In his letter, Kucinich questions how much information about these = =20 bonuses was made available to shareholders, as well as the government= . BOA had knowledge of and influence over Merrill's intent to pay = =20 out bonuses even before BOA took control of Merrill. According to the= =20 merger agreement of September 15, 2008, Merrill's bonus awards were t= o =20 be made "in consultation with [Bank of America]." In an undisclosed = =20 attachment to the merger agreement, made public only recently by the = =20 Attorney General of New York State, Bank of America permitted Merrill= =20 the right to award up to $5.8 billion for calendar year 2008 =20 performance. While prior to the merger BOA knew of Merrill's intent to award = =20 billions of dollars in performance bonuses before the Fourth Quarter = =20 earnings were calculated, BOA did not disclose the details it =20 possessed about the Merrill bonuses and the unusualness of the timing= =20 of those bonuses to its shareholders prior to their vote on the merge= r. This raises important questions about what you knew about the = =20 Merrill bonuses, and what you did with your knowledge. If ordinary BO= A =20 shareholders were ignorant of the details of the Merrill bonus =20 arrangement, was the U.S. government as well. =A9 2009 Huffington Post All rights reserved. View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/134235/ ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_xoYonYLeIf0fAZt9FMI0FQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Randall Webmail <rvh40@i= nsightbb.com>
Date: April 2, 2009 7:41:14 PM EDT<= /font>
Subject: Had enough yet= ?

<= /div>Merrill Lynch Bonuses Were 22 Times the Size Of AIG's
By Mega= n Slack, Huffington Post
Posted on March 31, 2009, Printed on Apri= l 2, 2009
http:/= /www.alternet.org/story/134235/

Dennis Kucinich sent out a= round of letters to top Treasury officials Monday morning, questioni= ng how much they knew about bonuses paid to Merrill Lynch executives = that totaled $3.62 billion, nearly 22 times the total bonuses paid to= AIG executives. The payouts made up more that 36 percent of the TARP= funds the financial institution received from the Federal government= .

Kucinich points out that unlike AIG, the bonuses were not lo= cked in by preexisting contracts and were performance bonuses, as opp= osed to retention bonuses.

    The Merrill bonu= ses were 22 times larger than those paid by AIG ($3,620 million versu= s $165 million). They were also very large relative to the TARP monie= s allocated to Merrill. The Merrill bonuses were the equivalent of 36= .2% of TARP monies Treasury allocated to Merrill and awarded to BOA a= fter their merger. The bonuses, awarded mostly as cash, were made onl= y to top management at Merrill. To be eligible for the bonuses, Merri= ll employees had to have a salary of at least $300,000 and attained t= he title of Vice President or higher.

    The M= errill bonuses were determined by Merrill's Compensation Committee at= its meeting of December 8, 2008, shortly after BOA shareholders appr= oved the merger but before financial results for the Fourth Quarter h= ad been determined. This appears to be a departure from normal compan= y practice, since the type of bonus Merrill awarded was a performance= bonus that, according to company policy, was supposed to reflect all= four quarters of performance and was paid in January or later. In th= is case, however, the bonuses were awarded in December before Fourth = Quarter performance had been determined.

In his letter, Kucini= ch questions how much information about these bonuses was made availa= ble to shareholders, as well as the government.

  &n= bsp; BOA had knowledge of and influence over Merrill's intent to pay = out bonuses even before BOA took control of Merrill. According to the= merger agreement of September 15, 2008, Merrill's bonus awards were = to be made "in consultation with [Bank of America]." In an undisclose= d attachment to the merger agreement, made public only recently by th= e Attorney General of New York State, Bank of America permitted Merri= ll the right to award up to $5.8 billion for calendar year 2008 perfo= rmance.

    While prior to the merger BOA knew = of Merrill's intent to award billions of dollars in performance bonus= es before the Fourth Quarter earnings were calculated, BOA did not di= sclose the details it possessed about the Merrill bonuses and the unu= sualness of the timing of those bonuses to its shareholders prior to = their vote on the merger.

    This raises impor= tant questions about what you knew about the Merrill bonuses, and wha= t you did with your knowledge. If ordinary BOA shareholders were igno= rant of the details of the Merrill bonus arrangement, was the U.S. go= vernment as well.

=A9 2009 Huffington Post All rights reserved= .
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/134235/=

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_xoYonYLeIf0fAZt9FMI0FQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 07:46:31 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00G01WPBZE@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00G01WP8YX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00601RYMVJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:04:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHI0064TRYMJX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:03:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3EF6F94 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21829122AE for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8CF65 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C3674 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n339wuOc002508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:58:55 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Google is buying Twitter? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <4273AAD2-34EA-43DE-BC11-15BEA877F7BE@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_QL4VOn1wnD/CqRjAAMOfkA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 1D71E3DE-2036-11DE-BDF7-B040F265F389 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_QL4VOn1wnD/CqRjAAMOfkA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: No-Name Date: April 3, 2009 1:16:39 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Google is buying Twitter? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/03/AR2009040304363.html Sources: Google In Late Stage Talks To Acquire Twitter (Updated) Thursday, April 2, 2009; 7:49 PM Here's a heck of a rumor that we've sourced from two separate people close to the negotiations: Google is in late stage negotiations to acquire Twitter. We don't know the price but can assume its well, well north of the $250 million valuation that they saw in their recent funding. Twitter turned down an offer to be bought by Facebook just a few months ago for half a billion dollars, although that was based partially on overvalued Facebook stock. Google would be paying in cash and/or publicly valued stock, which is equivalent to cash. So whatever the final acquisition value might be, it can't be compared apples-to- apples with the Facebook deal. ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_QL4VOn1wnD/CqRjAAMOfkA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: No-Name <labmanager@gma= il.com>
Date: April 3, 2009 1:16:39 AM EDT<= /div>
Su= bject: Google is buying Twitter?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04= /03/AR2009040304363.html


Sources: Goo= gle In Late Stage Talks To Acquire Twitter (Updated)
 = ;
Thursday, April 2, 2009; 7:49 PM

Here's a heck of a rumor= that we've sourced from two separate people close to the negotiation= s: Google is in late stage negotiations to acquire Twitter. We don't = know the price but can assume its well, well north of the $250 millio= n valuation that they saw in their recent funding.

Twitter tu= rned down an offer to be bought by Facebook just a few months ago for= half a billion dollars, although that was based partially on overval= ued Facebook stock. Google would be paying in cash and/or publicly va= lued stock, which is equivalent to cash. So whatever the final acquis= ition value might be, it can't be compared apples-to-apples with the = Facebook deal.

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_QL4VOn1wnD/CqRjAAMOfkA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 07:46:32 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00G01WPBZE@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00G01WP8YX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00701S2B7K@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHI0065MS2AJX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878FF1EAAB for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6508737856 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25D9920E7F for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B8520E71 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33A0Jcn002530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:00:18 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Register.com suffers further DOS attack To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <065FA87A-45EC-4D9E-95C0-318FB5C5CB3C@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 3FACDA76-2036-11DE-80DB-EF325660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49D58473.1010708@bible.org> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "David Austin (bghp)" Date: April 2, 2009 11:37:23 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Register.com suffers further DOS attack Where has been the coverage on this? Our sites www.bible.org and others were denied DNS service yesterday and today. The only report was on twitter and http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/638/1051638/register-com-suffers-dos-attack david -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 07:46:33 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00G01WPBZE@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00G01WP8YX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHI00701S9LOH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHI0068YS9LJX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D281E37E for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E85F37F9B for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1416069 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E469065 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:02:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33A2VTs002545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:02:31 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] content paid for by ISPs To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_T3wYZ7+9VVGCCm/lA85HGQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 9D62353A-2036-11DE-89D6-EBE119A70398 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <784290.76342.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_T3wYZ7+9VVGCCm/lA85HGQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Farooq Butt Date: April 2, 2009 10:40:42 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: content paid for by ISPs Dave- for Ip if you like: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ba9230f4-1fa2-11de-a7a5-00144feabdc0.html Interesting issues raised! From an initial reading, it appears that the content industry seems happy to be paid a paycheck from ISP revenues irrespective of the quality of the content produced. Wonder what we'd get if Andrew Lloyd Weber or Gene Simmons or Palcido Domingo were effective employees of cable and DSL telcos ;-) fmb ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_T3wYZ7+9VVGCCm/lA85HGQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Farooq Butt <farooq@fa= rooqbutt.com>
Date: April 2, 2009 10:40:42 PM EDT=
Dave- for Ip if you like: 

http://www.= ft.com/cms/s/0/ba9230f4-1fa2-11de-a7a5-00144feabdc0.html
Interesting issues raised! From an initial reading, it appears = that the content industry seems happy to be paid a paycheck from ISP = revenues irrespective of the quality of the content produced. Wonder = what we'd get if Andrew Lloyd Weber or Gene Simmons or Palcido Doming= o were effective employees of cable and DSL telcos ;-) 

fmb

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_T3wYZ7+9VVGCCm/lA85HGQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:28:50 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ006012TM7C@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ002F62TMBW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DB01FB10 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968451C086 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C1762045A for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33F320454 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33DsqPo027190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:56:02 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: YouSling Media Slings Bull at Slingbox Faithful To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3455AEF8-AF8F-48F7-BA09-531E0267A32E@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 2DC1EA1A-2057-11DE-BB0A-E03C5660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <99b1c00c0904030522n35cca861p467e26ba48b09d42@mail.gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Dave Wilson Date: April 3, 2009 8:22:18 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Sling Media Slings Bull at Slingbox Faithful Slingbox is also offering a $50 credit to existing owners who want to upgrade. Interestingly, you don't have to trade in your old device. I wound up having to buy a second generation slingbox a couple of years ago when my original slingbox wouldn't work with the FIOS box (a problem that has since been corrected). -dave On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:04 PM, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Lauren Weinstein > Date: April 2, 2009 6:11:41 PM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: Sling Media Slings Bull at Slingbox Faithful > > > > Sling Media Slings Bull at Slingbox Faithful > > http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000533.html > > > Greetings. Sling Media, purveyors of the popular "Slingbox" line > of devices that stream home television or other video/audio sources > over the Internet, have just slung a smelly slug of excrement at their > loyal customers and fans. > > Slingboxes permit users to quickly and easily stream content from -- > and pretty fully remotely control -- their home cable boxes, TiVos, > and the like. Because it's a hardware-based solution, it has proven > much easier to use than free software-based systems such as "Orb" > (which require capture cards and significant CPU resources) for many > users, this despite Sling's move to encrypted data streams that shut > out "unofficial" player applications. > > While the primary modality of Slingbox usage is streaming to > specialized programs and embedded Web players (which have been > included with the cost of the device), a big attraction of Slingbox > has been its mobile apps -- such as the Slingbox player for Windows > Mobile cell phones -- which actually works remarkably well, even at > quite low, non-3G speeds. Even though this is an extra-cost item, it > has proven to be very popular. > > For months now in the Slingbox world, anticipation has been riding > high in anticipation of an iPhone version of the Slingbox mobile app, > and speculation has been rampant that an Android version (e.g., for > the HTC/Google G1 cell phone) is also in the works. > > But now comes word from Sling -- not an April's Fools joke > unfortunately, that the iPhone app will only be compatible with new > model (mostly HD-oriented) Slingboxes, and that owners of existing > models will be out in the cold. > > Many Slingbox owners are livid, and it's easy to see why. We already > *know* that Sling streams will play just dandy at low speeds, > even into limited architectures like Windows Mobile. To allow for > backwards compatible streaming of standard definition video into the > mobile applications for the iPhone or other mobile platforms simply > cannot be a rocket science level project. > > So there is only one likely reason that Sling Media is going down this > non-backwards-compatible path -- simple greed. > > The first indications of Sling Media's greedy nature surfaced when > they locked down their data to try prevent the implementation of > unapproved applications, as noted above. But with Sling's new > incompatibility manifesto, we see their greed in its full flowering, > and what it portends for the future of the Slingbox platform is not at > all encouraging. > > Rather than upgrading to newer Sling devices, I would urge current > Slingbox owners -- and anyone else thinking about the purchase of > Sling Media products, to instead wherever possible consider the use of > Orb or similar services that operate using standard protocols, and > devote whatever time and resources that they can to the development of > open source software-based and hardware-based Internet video streaming > systems. Sling Media's proprietary approach is no longer acceptable. > > As it stands right now, as far as I'm concerned, Sling has > slung its last. > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein > lauren@vortex.com > Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 > http://www.pfir.org/lauren > Co-Founder, PFIR > - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org > Co-Founder, NNSquad > - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org > Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition > for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org > Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com > Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy > Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com > Twitter: LW1 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:28:51 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ006012TT7U@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ002F22TSKS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32092ADC for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2EF6204AB for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60975204A6 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33DxGnr007721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:59:16 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: A1C217BE-2057-11DE-88C5-BE425660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49D53FFB.70705@cavebear.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Karl Auerbach Date: April 2, 2009 6:45:15 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Truly Disturbing TSA Recording David Farber wrote: > "*Man detained and harassed at airport for carrying CASH!"* Well, there's probably more to this than we are hearing. But I was somewhat annoyed by the TSA folks' unwillingness to say yes or now whether the person was free to go (although by context it was pretty clear that he was under effective arrest.) Last summer, before the elections, a TSA supervisor accused me of "suffering from Obamaism" because I asked why they were shouting (screaming actually) at my wife and myself in the middle of the JFK Air France ticket lobby. (Turns out that they had no such rules and that, in fact, TSA has rules that explicitly let us do what we were doing.) I filed a formal complaint and TSA's DC people excused their supervisor's clear attempt to engage in abusing a citizen on the basis of presumed political views on the grounds that the supervisor was making a joke. Yeah, right. The DC TSA complaint people never bothered to explain why it was OK for their people to make up their own secret local rules that violate overall TSA written procedures. I was thinking of sending TSA a box load of brown shirts but I figured that the symbolism would be lost on them. Congress and the President ought to consider dissolving the TSA and replacing it with a new protective agency that does not carry forth the abusive, self-justifying, and anti-citizen culture that is so deeply embedded into the TSA. (It's pretty clear that local TSA management makes a *big* difference. I've found the TSA at SFO to be much more reasonable, and no less effective, than at places where the TSA routinely uses arbitrary abuse and intimidation.) --karl-- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:28:52 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ006012VJD0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ001DB2VJ74@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93481FF51 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE921C534 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E0571CF99 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534B61CF90 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33DsqPp027190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:56:49 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Register.com suffers further DOS attack To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2504CF0D-8E71-4F34-B9BA-32A6038AE1BF@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_pKnPrl8N2MD8L63u/9ZBQQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 48A311D8-2057-11DE-A463-015C5C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <27230564.36701238754186544.JavaMail.root@mailbox.chesapeakeimaging.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_pKnPrl8N2MD8L63u/9ZBQQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Phillip Jackson Date: April 3, 2009 6:23:06 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Register.com suffers further DOS attack I am as well surprised this hasn't been covered more. This has caused serious downtime to a number of medical ASP solutions that I am aware of effecting operations at some of the East Coasts most well recognized hospitals. Ultimately this issue shows how truly vulnerable the Internet is. We were all sitting around waiting for a "worm" to cause trouble on April 1st; this issue takes the cake. Regards, Phil -- Phillip C Jackson CEO & President, SecureRAD LLC 122 Defense Highway | Suite 228 | Annapolis, MD 21401 Tel: (202) 841-0090 Fax: (443) 926-9340 Bridge: (616) 712-8000, 820991# ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farber" To: "ip" Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 6:00:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [IP] Register.com suffers further DOS attack Begin forwarded message: From: "David Austin (bghp)" Date: April 2, 2009 11:37:23 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Register.com suffers further DOS attack Where has been the coverage on this? Our sites www.bible.org and others were denied DNS service yesterday and today. The only report was on twitter and http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/638/1051638/register-com-suffers-dos-attack david ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_pKnPrl8N2MD8L63u/9ZBQQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Phillip Jackson <pjackson@chesapeakeimaging.net>
Date: Apri= l 3, 2009 6:23:06 AM EDT
Subject: <= font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><= b>Re: [IP] Register.com suffers further DOS attack

I am = as well surprised this hasn't been covered more.  This has cause= d serious downtime to a number of medical ASP solutions that I am awa= re of effecting operations at some of the East Coasts most well recog= nized hospitals.  

Ultimately this issue shows how truly vulnerable the Inte= rnet is.  We were all sitting around waiting for a "worm" to cau= se trouble on April 1st; this issue takes the cake.

Regards,Phil

--
Phillip C Jackson
CEO & President, SecureR= AD LLC
122 Defense Highway | Suite 228 | Annapolis, MD 21401
Tel: (202) 841-0090
Fax: (443) 926-9340
Bridge: (616) 712-800= 0, 820991#

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Farber= " <dave@farber.net>
T= o: "ip" <ip@v2.listbox.com>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 6:00:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada = Eastern
Subject: [IP] Register.com suffers further DOS attack 



Begin f= orwarded message:

From: "David Austin (bghp)" <daustin@bible.org>
Date: April 2, = 2009 11:37:23 PM EDT
To:&nbs= p;dave@farber.net
Su= bject: Register.com suffers further DOS attack

Where has been = the coverage on this?  Our sites www.bible.org=  and  
othe= rs were denied DNS service yesterday and today. The
only report wa= s on twitter and http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/63= 8/1051638/register-com-suffers-dos-attack
david



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--Boundary_(ID_pKnPrl8N2MD8L63u/9ZBQQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:28:53 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00701398G7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ001JB39874@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07DB565B2 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4470C110D6 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACCCF1CFBA for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0541CFAB for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:57:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33DsqPq027190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:57:48 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Had enough yet? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 6C653632-2057-11DE-9B8C-375F5C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090403013459.GA79961@redoubt.spodhuis.org> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Phil Pennock Date: April 2, 2009 9:34:59 PM EDT To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] Had enough yet? On 2009-04-02 at 20:58 -0400, David Farber forwarded: > The Merrill bonuses were 22 times larger than those paid by AIG > ($3,620 million versus $165 million). The CIA World Factbook entry for the USA: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html lists a US population of: 307,212,123 (July 2009 est.) and there's an older copy which lists: 303,824,646 (July 2008 est.) So between $11.78 and $11.91 for every US resident has just been paid by in bonuses to one company, from money collected as taxes? Again from the 2009 WFB: Labor force: 155.2 million (includes unemployed) (2008 est.) Unemployment rate: 7.2% (December 2008 est.) So the employed labor force can be estimated at 144 million; the 2007 figures from the 2008 WFB are 153.1m force, 4.6% unemployed, for an employed labor force of 146 million. So $24.78 per employed person, 2007, or $25.13 using the shrunk labor force. Call it roughly $25 per earning tax-payer. Of tax money. The AIG figures didn't upset me too much. It was mildly irritating, but corruption is so commonplace that less than 0.1% of the money they got going to bonuses ... it wasn't worth getting excited over, given all the other pork barrel excesses we see. But this ... this irritates me. -Phil -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:28:54 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ007013FXWB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ002HI3FWBW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484241F384 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1812D3F202 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E6569 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A475F68 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33E7h0h027728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:07:43 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Had enough yet? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: DCACCE86-2058-11DE-B38B-97D8E3CFAF45 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090403013459.GA79961@redoubt.spodhuis.org> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 I am astonished to see a little coverage is of this in the mainstream newspapers. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:28:55 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00I017F8LV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ00B667F8RT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D35931FFE6 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6EAE44B05 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D06563 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1F12BB7 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33FSklH010955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:28:46 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: TSA demands to know source of traveler's cash To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 35A7CCCE-2064-11DE-8AAB-CE3C62BD3D78 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <01DCC746-E62F-474C-B047-A36A5DF9B7C2@gillmor.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Dan Gillmor Date: April 3, 2009 10:42:39 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: TSA demands to know source of traveler's cash Dave, There's a modest silver lining in this report. Consider that it's on Fox News, and that one of the commentators on this program finds this situation scary. Recall, meanwhile, that Fox News and its allies have been among the loudest cheerleaders for the shredding of the Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights, during the past few years. Their hypocrisy aside, let's celebrate if Fox and others on the political right are suddenly rediscovering the value of civil liberties. Dan > Subject: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording > > "Man detained and harassed at airport for carrying CASH!" > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMB6L487LHM&feature=channel_page > -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:28:56 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00I017NDY7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ00B927NDOE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA881EC01 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6400044476 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CEE1C297 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E8B1C292 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33FW8gp011114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:32:09 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <8063DB3D-7BF8-4C0E-A0DD-8C1FF31818C2@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 9B63FAEC-2064-11DE-AA32-6E2C5C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49D61D0E.7060102@pix.cs.olemiss.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Tobin Maginnis Date: April 3, 2009 10:28:30 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording I think the implied actions of the TSA should be stated clearly. The TSA interrogators implied that they are part of a law enforcement team with local police and the DEA. And we all know that drug asset forfeiture laws allow the police to *sease and keep* cash that is *thought* to be related to drug trafficking. These "investigators" were about to score point with their local police buds by shaking down an innocent traveler. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:28:57 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00K017UI49@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ00BC67UIQH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6676763B2 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575248331C for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E009D536 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512F3535 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33FW8gq011114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:32:56 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: B65DF91A-2064-11DE-A757-0F17E488361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Mark Blacknell Date: April 3, 2009 10:20:37 AM EDT To: David Farber , Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording On 4/3/09 9:59 AM, "David Farber" wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Karl Auerbach > Date: April 2, 2009 6:45:15 PM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Cc: ip > Subject: Re: [IP] Truly Disturbing TSA Recording > > David Farber wrote: > >> "*Man detained and harassed at airport for carrying CASH!"* > > Well, there's probably more to this than we are hearing. But I was > somewhat annoyed by the TSA folks' unwillingness to say yes or now > whether the person was free to go (although by context it was pretty > clear that he was under effective arrest.) No, what's presented there is pretty much what happened. I know Steve Bierfeldt (I got to know him when he was managing a local congressional campaign that I was writing about). I'll bet that when just about anyone meets him, they're struck by two things: 1) his overt devotion to asserting his Constitutional rights (in VA, this is usually noted through the gun he wears in an open-carry manner) and 2) his almost preternatural politeness. I think both of those were on perfect display in that recording. They're also something that - in combination - really annoys those law enforcement officers who have come to believe that they have some inherent authority over the public that should never be questioned. There is an enormous chasm between my politics and Steve's, but I think he did us all a favor here, in effectively standing up to an abuse of TSA discretion. Would that more of us could do that. Mark ~ Mark Blacknell +1.202.270.5909 Washington, DC http://blacknell.net/dynamic/ -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:28:58 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00K01874UI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ00K328749O@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF901FF0F for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1554436D for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 480C71C305 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0907C1C2F4 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33FXxs3011182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:34:00 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Register.com suffers further DOS attack To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_38c2uT6FSGNzW4XqPBnyWg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: DC03AACA-2064-11DE-9AC9-79325C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <00b101c9b466$fc36e650$f4a4b2f0$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_38c2uT6FSGNzW4XqPBnyWg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: April 3, 2009 10:17:55 AM EDT To: , "'ip'" Subject: RE: [IP] Re: Register.com suffers further DOS attack The DNS =96 again. It=92s also a reminder that the dependency on the registries is a des= ign =20 problem with the current architecture. The DNS is a critical flaw = =96 =20 even Verizon once forgot to send in their check and lost their =20 identity. At least they had the heft to get it back. Others would not= =20 be so fortunate or may simply not exist =96 thus your legacy dies wit= h =20 you. The new RIP is 404. It=92s worse with your identity getting reso= ld. The dependency on the DNS also means that subsets of the net can=92t = =20 work apart from the whole =96 it=92s all-or-nothing since your identi= ty is =20 defined by a remote DNS rather than at the edge in an edge-to-edge = =20 architecture. This is a consequence of the use of the IP address as path the name = =20 and address (relatively stable identity, relatively stable location).= =20 Thus we need to DNS merely to maintain relationships. This is like = =20 telephony =96cellular telephony maintains the relationships inside th= e =20 network. As Skype demonstrates you can maintain the relationships = =20 outside the network. XNS also did this long ago. Of course eliminating the dependence on the DNS is about far more tha= n =20 DoS. =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 09:57 To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: Register.com suffers further DOS attack Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Phillip Jackson Date: April 3, 2009 6:23:06 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Register.com suffers further DOS attack I am as well surprised this hasn't been covered more. This has cause= d =20 serious downtime to a number of medical ASP solutions that I am aware= =20 of effecting operations at some of the East Coasts most well =20 recognized hospitals. Ultimately this issue shows how truly vulnerable the Internet is. We= =20 were all sitting around waiting for a "worm" to cause trouble on Apri= l =20 1st; this issue takes the cake. Regards, Phil -- Phillip C Jackson CEO & President, SecureRAD LLC 122 Defense Highway | Suite 228 | Annapolis, MD 21401 Tel: (202) 841-0090 Fax: (443) 926-9340 Bridge: (616) 712-8000, 820991# ----- Original Message ----- =46rom: "David Farber" To: "ip" Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 6:00:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [IP] Register.com suffers further DOS attack Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "David Austin (bghp)" Date: April 2, 2009 11:37:23 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Register.com suffers further DOS attack Where has been the coverage on this? Our sites www.bible.org and others were denied DNS service yesterday and today. The only report was on twitter and http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne= ws/638/1051638/register-com-suffers-dos-attack david ------------------------------------------- Archives =09 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_38c2uT6FSGNzW4XqPBnyWg) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_AyW1883VrPdbKJCiqrcDmQ)"; type="text/html" --Boundary_(ID_AyW1883VrPdbKJCiqrcDmQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: April 3, 2= 009 10:17:55 AM EDT
Subject: RE: [IP= ] Re:    Regis= ter.com suffers further DOS attack

= The DNS =96 again.
 
It=92s also a reminder that the dependency on the registr= ies is a design problem with the current architecture. The DNS is a c= ritical flaw =96 even Verizon once forgot to send in their check and = lost their identity. At least they had the heft to get it back. Other= s would not be so fortunate or may simply not exist =96 thus your leg= acy dies with you. The new RIP is 404. It=92s worse with your identit= y getting resold.
 
The dependency on the DNS also means that subsets of the = net can=92t work apart from the whole =96 it=92s all-or-nothing since= your identity is defined by a remote DNS rather than at the edge in = an edge-to-edge architecture.
 
This is a consequence of the use of the IP addres= s as path the name and address (relatively stable identity, relativel= y stable location). Thus we need to DNS merely to maintain relationsh= ips. This is like telephony =96cellular telephony maintains the relat= ionships inside the network. As Skype demonstrates you can maintain t= he relationships outside the network. XNS also did this long ago.
 
Of course eli= minating the dependence on the DNS is about far more than DoS.
 
 
From: David Farber= [mailto:dave@farber.net] 
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 09:57
To:=  ip
Subject:<= /b> [IP] Re: Regist= er.com suffers further DOS attack
=
 
 
 
Begin f= orwarded message:
 
From: Phillip Jackson <pjackson@chesapeakeimaging.net>
Date: April 3, 20= 09 6:23:06 AM EDT
<= span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; col= or: black; ">To: dave@farber.net
= Subject: Re: [IP] Register.com suffers further DOS attack
 
I am as well surpris= ed this hasn't been covered more.  This has caused serious downt= ime to a number of medical ASP solutions that I am aware of effecting= operations at some of the East Coasts most well recognized hospitals= .  

Ult= imately this issue shows how truly vulnerable the Internet is.  = We were all sitting around waiting for a "worm" to cause trouble on A= pril 1st; this issue takes the cake.

Regards,
Phil

-= -
Phillip C Jackson
CEO & President, SecureRAD LLC
122 D= efense Highway | Suite 228 | Annapolis, MD 21401

Tel: (202) 84= 1-0090
Fax: (443) 926-9340
Bridge: (616) 712-8000, 820991#
<= br>----- Original Message -----
From: "David Farber" <dave@farber.net>
To: "ip" <i= p@v2.listbox.com>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 6:00:18 AM GMT -= 05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [IP] Register.com suffers further= DOS attack 


Begin forwarded message:

From: "David Austin (bghp)" = <daustin@bible.org>
Date: April 2, 2009= 11:37:23 PM EDT
To: dave@farber.net
Subject: Register.com s= uffers further DOS attack

Where has been the coverage on this?=  Our sites www.bible.org=  and  
others were denied DNS service yesterday a= nd today. The
only report was on twitter and http://www.theinquirer.net/in= quirer/news/638/1051638/register-com-suffers-dos-attack
david<= br>



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To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <11F54BA3-0173-441A-A8FF-D508D0287AFF@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 931CDB04-2075-11DE-A2AD-2D5F5C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <3D372954472C42469E18E28EAF51CF8F@YOURFD5605001F> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Kevin Gainer" Date: April 3, 2009 12:39:02 PM EDT To: , Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Had enough yet? Not sure what your point is. All you're doing is repeating yet another anecdote on a theme that's played out ad naseum for twenty years (where have you been or maybe Economics is not your specialty?) If you rank all families in the U.S. by their annual income (about 120 million or so family units) and arbitarily lop off the top 1% of such units (i.e., 120,000 units at the top, not enough to fill a thimble) and add up the aggregate income rec'd by that 1%, that's fully 22% of national income. That means that MORE than 1 out of every 5 dollars generated in the entire economy ends up in the back pockets of the top 1%. Conclusion: You can put my name, and my vote, in the column labeled: "Absolutely, Irretrievably Opposed to the United States". The irony is I live in the 1% neighborhood and if you heard what my neighbors had to say, you'd think I was the proverbial shrinking violet. People are unbelievably pissed off at the extent of the inequality and it will prove to be the undoing of the whole society. regs, K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farber" To: "ip" Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 9:57 AM Subject: [IP] Re: Had enough yet? > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Phil Pennock > Date: April 2, 2009 9:34:59 PM EDT > To: David Farber > Subject: Re: [IP] Had enough yet? > > On 2009-04-02 at 20:58 -0400, David Farber forwarded: >> The Merrill bonuses were 22 times larger than those paid by AIG >> ($3,620 million versus $165 million). > > The CIA World Factbook entry for the USA: > https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html > > lists a US population of: > 307,212,123 (July 2009 est.) > and there's an older copy which lists: > 303,824,646 (July 2008 est.) > > So between $11.78 and $11.91 for every US resident has just been > paid by > in bonuses to one company, from money collected as taxes? > > Again from the 2009 WFB: > Labor force: > 155.2 million (includes unemployed) (2008 est.) > Unemployment rate: > 7.2% (December 2008 est.) > > So the employed labor force can be estimated at 144 million; the 2007 > figures from the 2008 WFB are 153.1m force, 4.6% unemployed, for an > employed labor force of 146 million. > > So $24.78 per employed person, 2007, or $25.13 using the shrunk labor > force. > > Call it roughly $25 per earning tax-payer. Of tax money. > > > The AIG figures didn't upset me too much. It was mildly irritating, > but > corruption is so commonplace that less than 0.1% of the money they got > going to bonuses ... it wasn't worth getting excited over, given all > the > other pork barrel excesses we see. > > But this ... this irritates me. > > -Phil > > > > > ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Apr 3 14:29:01 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBVS6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00D01FBRQK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00701CYRT2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ005BFCYR5F@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F6769B for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2508974 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81B005F for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.109] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33HYlNI007906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:34:46 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Had enough yet? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SzJLZA6SJII1gmv4Dknmlg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: CB7C3D46-2075-11DE-9488-C9CAE9B1431E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <0ACBF2E2-C3CD-4EEE-8AF0-91D232C38987@gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_SzJLZA6SJII1gmv4Dknmlg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Shannon McElyea Date: April 3, 2009 11:55:43 AM EDT To: David Farber , Dewayne Hendricks Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Had enough yet? re: " I am astonished to see a little coverage is of this in the = =20 mainstream newspapers." me too. Maybe AIG playup was a distraction - extra noise at the time when VP = =20 Cheney was in the news for being discovered by Seymour Hersh of = =20 running an assassination ring, and Kucinich was calling for an =20 investigation. although people do care more about their tax dollars = =20 going to unwarranted bonuses than going to assassination rings: http://kucinich.house.gov/NEWS/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=3D11462= 1 Kucinich Requests Investigation into =93Executive Assassination Ring= =94 Washington, Mar 16 - Washington D.C. (March 16, 2009) =96 Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-O= H) =20 Friday sent a letter to Chairman Edolphus Towns of the House Oversigh= t =20 and Government Reform Committee requesting an immediate investigation= =20 into allegations made by the investigative reporter Seymour Hersh tha= t =20 the White House operated an =91executive assassination ring=92 that = =20 circumvented Congressional oversight. Kucinich explains in the letter that, =93Mr. Hersh made the allegatio= n =20 before an audience at the University of Minnesota on Tuesday, March = =20 10, 2009. He stated, =91Under President Bush=92s authority, they= =92ve been =20 going into countries, not talking to the ambassador or the CIA statio= n =20 chief, and finding people on a list and executing them and leaving= =85 It =20 is a special wing of our special operations community that is set up = =20 independently. They do not report to anybody, except in the Bush-= =20 Cheney days, they reported directly to the Cheney office. . .Congress= =20 has no oversight of it.=92=94 Kucinich adds, =93If true, these operations violate longstanding U.S.= =20 policy regarding covert actions and illegally bypass Congressional = =20 oversight=85 Hersh is within a year or more of releasing a book that = is =20 said to include evidence of this allegation. However, we cannot wait= =20 a year or more to establish the truth.=94 The full text of the letter follows: http://www.nowpublic.com/world/dick-cheney-accused-running-assassinat= ion-ring On Apr 3, 2009, at 7:07 AM, David Farber wrote: I am astonished to see a little coverage is of this in the mainstrea= m =20 newspapers. ------------------------------------------- Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Randall Webmail Date: April 2, 2009 7:41:14 PM EDT To: johnmacsgroup@yahoogroups.com, dewayne@warpspeed.com Cc: dave@farber.net Subject: Had enough yet? Merrill Lynch Bonuses Were 22 Times the Size Of AIG's By Megan Slack, Huffington Post Posted on March 31, 2009, Printed on April 2, 2009 http://www.alternet.org/story/134235/ Dennis Kucinich sent out a round of letters to top Treasury officials= =20 Monday morning, questioning how much they knew about bonuses paid to = =20 Merrill Lynch executives that totaled $3.62 billion, nearly 22 times = =20 the total bonuses paid to AIG executives. The payouts made up more = =20 that 36 percent of the TARP funds the financial institution received = =20 =66rom the Federal government. Kucinich points out that unlike AIG, the bonuses were not locked in b= y =20 preexisting contracts and were performance bonuses, as opposed to = =20 retention bonuses. The Merrill bonuses were 22 times larger than those paid by AIG = =20 ($3,620 million versus $165 million). They were also very large =20 relative to the TARP monies allocated to Merrill. The Merrill bonuses= =20 were the equivalent of 36.2% of TARP monies Treasury allocated to = =20 Merrill and awarded to BOA after their merger. The bonuses, awarded = =20 mostly as cash, were made only to top management at Merrill. To be = =20 eligible for the bonuses, Merrill employees had to have a salary of a= t =20 least $300,000 and attained the title of Vice President or higher. The Merrill bonuses were determined by Merrill's Compensation = =20 Committee at its meeting of December 8, 2008, shortly after BOA =20 shareholders approved the merger but before financial results for the= =20 Fourth Quarter had been determined. This appears to be a departure = =20 =66rom normal company practice, since the type of bonus Merrill award= ed =20 was a performance bonus that, according to company policy, was =20 supposed to reflect all four quarters of performance and was paid in = =20 January or later. In this case, however, the bonuses were awarded in = =20 December before Fourth Quarter performance had been determined. In his letter, Kucinich questions how much information about these = =20 bonuses was made available to shareholders, as well as the government= . BOA had knowledge of and influence over Merrill's intent to pay = =20 out bonuses even before BOA took control of Merrill. According to the= =20 merger agreement of September 15, 2008, Merrill's bonus awards were t= o =20 be made "in consultation with [Bank of America]." In an undisclosed = =20 attachment to the merger agreement, made public only recently by the = =20 Attorney General of New York State, Bank of America permitted Merrill= =20 the right to award up to $5.8 billion for calendar year 2008 =20 performance. While prior to the merger BOA knew of Merrill's intent to award = =20 billions of dollars in performance bonuses before the Fourth Quarter = =20 earnings were calculated, BOA did not disclose the details it =20 possessed about the Merrill bonuses and the unusualness of the timing= =20 of those bonuses to its shareholders prior to their vote on the merge= r. This raises important questions about what you knew about the = =20 Merrill bonuses, and what you did with your knowledge. If ordinary BO= A =20 shareholders were ignorant of the details of the Merrill bonus =20 arrangement, was the U.S. government as well. =A9 2009 Huffington Post All rights reserved. View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/134235/ ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_SzJLZA6SJII1gmv4Dknmlg) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Shannon McElyea <shannonm= @gmail.com>
Date: April 3, 2009 11:55:43 AM EDT
To: = David Farber <dave@f= arber.net>, Dewayne Hendricks <dewayne@warpspeed.com>
Subject: Re: [IP= ] Re:   Had enough = yet?

re: " I am astonished= to see a little coverage is  of this in the mainstream newspape= rs."  me too. 

Maybe AIG playup was a di= straction - extra noise at the time when VP Cheney was in the news fo= r being discovered by Seymour Hersh of  running an assassination= ring, and Kucinich was calling for an investigation. although people= do care more about their tax dollars going to unwarranted bonuses th= an going to assassination rings:


Kucinich Requests Investigation into =93Executive Assassinat= ion Ring=94 

Washington, Mar 16 = -

Washington D.C. (March 16, 2009) =96 Congressman Dennis K= ucinich (D-OH) Friday sent a letter to Chairman Edolphus Towns of the= House Oversight and Government Reform Committee requesting an immedi= ate investigation into allegations made by the investigative reporter= Seymour Hersh that the White House operated an =91executive assassin= ation ring=92 that circumvented Congressional oversight.

Kucini= ch explains in the letter that, =93Mr. Hersh made the allegation befo= re an audience at the University of Minnesota on Tuesday, March 10, 2= 009.  He stated, =91Under President Bush=92s authority, they= =92ve been going into countries, not talking to the ambassador or the= CIA station chief, and finding people on a list and executing them a= nd leaving=85 It is a special wing of our special operations communit= y that is set up independently. They do not report to anybody, except= in the Bush-Cheney days, they reported directly to the Cheney office= . . .Congress has no oversight of it.=92=94

Kucinich adds, = =93If true, these operations violate longstanding U.S. policy regardi= ng covert actions and illegally bypass Congressional oversight=85 Her= sh is within a year or more of releasing a book that is said to inclu= de evidence of this allegation.  However, we cannot wait a year = or more to establish the truth.=94

The full text of the letter = follows: 

<snip>


http://www.nowpublic.com/world/dick-cheney-accused= -running-assassination-ring
On Apr 3, 2009, at = 7:07 AM, David Farber wrote:


I am astonished to see a little coverage is  of th= is in the mainstream newspapers.


-------------------------= ------------------
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Begin forwarded message:
=
Date: April 2, 2009 7:41:14 PM EDT<= /div>
Subject:&= nbsp;Had enough yet?

Merr= ill Lynch Bonuses Were 22 Times the Size Of AIG's
By Megan Slack, = Huffington Post
Posted on March 31, 2009, Printed on April 2, 2009=
http://www.alte= rnet.org/story/134235/

Dennis Kucinich sent out a round of= letters to top Treasury officials Monday morning, questioning how mu= ch they knew about bonuses paid to Merrill Lynch executives that tota= led $3.62 billion, nearly 22 times the total bonuses paid to AIG exec= utives. The payouts made up more that 36 percent of the TARP funds th= e financial institution received from the Federal government.

= Kucinich points out that unlike AIG, the bonuses were not locked in b= y preexisting contracts and were performance bonuses, as opposed to r= etention bonuses.

    The Merrill bonuses were = 22 times larger than those paid by AIG ($3,620 million versus $165 mi= llion). They were also very large relative to the TARP monies allocat= ed to Merrill. The Merrill bonuses were the equivalent of 36.2% of TA= RP monies Treasury allocated to Merrill and awarded to BOA after thei= r merger. The bonuses, awarded mostly as cash, were made only to top = management at Merrill. To be eligible for the bonuses, Merrill employ= ees had to have a salary of at least $300,000 and attained the title = of Vice President or higher.

    The Merrill bo= nuses were determined by Merrill's Compensation Committee at its meet= ing of December 8, 2008, shortly after BOA shareholders approved the = merger but before financial results for the Fourth Quarter had been d= etermined. This appears to be a departure from normal company practic= e, since the type of bonus Merrill awarded was a performance bonus th= at, according to company policy, was supposed to reflect all four qua= rters of performance and was paid in January or later. In this case, = however, the bonuses were awarded in December before Fourth Quarter p= erformance had been determined.

In his letter, Kucinich questi= ons how much information about these bonuses was made available to sh= areholders, as well as the government.

    BOA = had knowledge of and influence over Merrill's intent to pay out bonus= es even before BOA took control of Merrill. According to the merger a= greement of September 15, 2008, Merrill's bonus awards were to be mad= e "in consultation with [Bank of America]." In an undisclosed attachm= ent to the merger agreement, made public only recently by the Attorne= y General of New York State, Bank of America permitted Merrill the ri= ght to award up to $5.8 billion for calendar year 2008 performance.
    While prior to the merger BOA knew of Merril= l's intent to award billions of dollars in performance bonuses before= the Fourth Quarter earnings were calculated, BOA did not disclose th= e details it possessed about the Merrill bonuses and the unusualness = of the timing of those bonuses to its shareholders prior to their vot= e on the merger.

    This raises important ques= tions about what you knew about the Merrill bonuses, and what you did= with your knowledge. If ordinary BOA shareholders were ignorant of t= he details of the Merrill bonus arrangement, was the U.S. government = as well.

=A9 2009 Huffington Post All rights reserved.
View= this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/134235/


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--Boundary_(ID_SzJLZA6SJII1gmv4Dknmlg)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 00:17:16 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHK00D016KOJX@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHK00D016KKJQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00C01R7EJF@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ00AO9R7E0N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E79F56 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C3B74 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134E46C for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33Misr5017170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:44:54 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity and Internet To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 1CD55332-20A1-11DE-AB4C-A6B081FC71A2 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090403223128.GA12852@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: April 3, 2009 6:31:28 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity and Internet Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity and Internet http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000534.html Greetings. I'll keep this brief for now. Two U.S. Senators have proposed new legislation that would provide for a massive increase in federal involvement into key aspects of "cybersecurity," plus direct impacts on the global Internet's operations, control, and even the "certification and licensing" of related personnel. The draft bill, a copy of which I have archived here: http://lauren.vortex.com/Cyber-S-2009.pdf is of such broad and encompassing scope that I won't even try to critique it in detail yet. I urge you to read through it for yourself -- and hold on to your hats. Thought experiment: How will the rest of the world react to this proposal? --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com Twitter: LW1 -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 00:17:17 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHK00D016KOJX@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHK00D016KKJQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00C01RA1NF@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:46:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ00C1WRA1ED@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:46:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF35D974 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0275A74 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDECE5F for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33Ml13p017221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:47:35 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Register.com suffers further DOS attack To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <194D99B8-60B0-4723-92AE-68D7B5B52AE2@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 7D02D496-20A1-11DE-BBAD-BBBB645C3F75 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <0D307C37-2F02-4B57-B19A-7D176FBD6B79@tucows.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Ross Rader Date: April 3, 2009 1:03:04 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Register.com suffers further DOS attack > I am as well surprised this hasn't been covered more. This has > caused serious downtime to a number of medical ASP solutions that I > am aware of effecting operations at some of the East Coasts most > well recognized hospitals. > > Ultimately this issue shows how truly vulnerable the Internet is. > We were all sitting around waiting for a "worm" to cause trouble on > April 1st; this issue takes the cake. Greetings David - (please feel free to share this with IP if you wish) The Register.com outage doesn't show that the Internet is vulnerable - it shows how readily people put all their eggs in one basket. Domain sellers make it very easy for purchasers of Internet services to create central points of failure for themselves based on how these services are sold and used. (obDisclaimer: I work for a registrar) DNS resolution, Hosting and Domain Registration are all separate technical functions. Register.com, and most other registrars, most commonly sell bundles of services and add-ons that will help their customers "light up" their domain registration with DNS and other Internet services. However, there is no requirement for these services are sold, or used in this matter. This is an artifact of the market, of convenience, and not one of technical necessity (or ICANN regulation). Register.com is only a single point of failure if you let them be. It is trivial to use a registrar simply for registering names, using another provider to operate your DNS, a third for your website hosting and a fourth for your email services (or doing those last three yourself - which I admit is a fairly complex endeavor, probably more than what most folks are equipped to pick up themselves). A thoroughly disintegrated Internet service strategy means that the failure of your registrar should only prevent you from updating your Whois record. I'm a big believer that at the very least, domain owners should separate the operation of their technical hosting from their domain registration and resolution. At a minimum, this will help them minimize any issues they might have choosing a new provider for their hosting services if that provider turns out to be a dud, which in today's market, is all too common (a topic for another post, but it is difficult for a company to provide 'all-you-can-eat hosting" for $2.99/ yr and properly support those customers). At the very least, if your domain services are separate, you can find a new host quickly, re- upload your content and be back online in hours without having to figure out how to get your hold host provider to stop holding your domain name hostage. best, Ross Rader General Manager, Hover t. 416.538.5492 The Easiest Way To Buy and Use Your Domain Names http://www.hover.com Check out our blog at: http://stuff.hover.com Hover on Twitter: http://about.hover.com/twitter Check my availability at: http://rossrader.com/available ..sent from my phone -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 00:17:18 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHK00D016KOJX@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHK00D016KKJQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHJ00E01SEFPR@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHJ00CBOSEFWK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B7663D3 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A534120AB for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC7F2742 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D163F741 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n33Ml13o017221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:47:00 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Had enough yet? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3D73E788-1FEF-4398-9F03-C261B096F2F3@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_d82EfpwCGYar1cKJ5P6YnA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 5AF43700-20A1-11DE-8686-0D43E488361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <3D83F4DC-FB76-4BC2-AAB9-7644BF20AD4A@flyingcircuit.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_d82EfpwCGYar1cKJ5P6YnA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Charles Brown Date: April 3, 2009 6:06:33 PM EDT To: phil.pennock@spodhuis.org, David Farber Cc: Charles Brown Subject: Re: [IP] Had enough yet? The aggregate amount of bonuses paid on Wall Street for the past year was much, much greater. Folks still don't quite seem to grasp how things work in the corrupt nexus. Here's another brief example. Bear-Stearns managed to have its "accrued bonuses" and other "insider obligations" paid in a bankruptcy proceeding, even though they were "preference items", which means they could have been easily reversed or dispensed with by the bankruptcy court. But JP Morgan (new owner), Hank (Paulson) and Tim (Geithner) decided that you should pay those bonuses too, and that was back in March of 2008. Congress is just finding this all out? That's a bit of a very long stretch, don't you think? Notwithstanding the fact that the bonuses are criminal, it's like focusing on the guy selling marijuana on the street corner while tons of opium are being unloaded at the dock behind him, just off-camera, stage-left. The CDS market keeps rolling, rolling, and the MSM seems to have stumbled across this phenomenon as "insurance." Meanwhile, Wally is about to double-dip on the downside through the Geithner/Summers/Wally toxic asset plan and the accountants are strong-armed to reverse policy. You are going to pick the tab for that one too. Charlie Begin forwarded message: From: Phil Pennock Date: April 2, 2009 9:34:59 PM EDT To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] Had enough yet? On 2009-04-02 at 20:58 -0400, David Farber forwarded: > The Merrill bonuses were 22 times larger than those paid by AIG > ($3,620 million versus $165 million). The CIA World Factbook entry for the USA: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html lists a US population of: 307,212,123 (July 2009 est.) and there's an older copy which lists: 303,824,646 (July 2008 est.) So between $11.78 and $11.91 for every US resident has just been paid by in bonuses to one company, from money collected as taxes? Again from the 2009 WFB: Labor force: 155.2 million (includes unemployed) (2008 est.) Unemployment rate: 7.2% (December 2008 est.) So the employed labor force can be estimated at 144 million; the 2007 figures from the 2008 WFB are 153.1m force, 4.6% unemployed, for an employed labor force of 146 million. So $24.78 per employed person, 2007, or $25.13 using the shrunk labor force. Call it roughly $25 per earning tax-payer. Of tax money. The AIG figures didn't upset me too much. It was mildly irritating, but corruption is so commonplace that less than 0.1% of the money they got going to bonuses ... it wasn't worth getting excited over, given all the other pork barrel excesses we see. But this ... this irritates me. -Phil ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_d82EfpwCGYar1cKJ5P6YnA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Charles Brown <cbro= wn@flyingcircuit.com>
Date: April 3, 2009 6:06:33 PM = EDT
Cc: Charles Brown <<= a href=3D"mailto:cbrown@flyingcircuit.com">cbrown@flyingcircuit.com>
Subject: Re: [IP] Had enough yet?

The aggregate amount of bonuses paid on= Wall Street for the past year was much, much greater.  Folks st= ill don't quite seem to grasp how things work in the corrupt nexus. &= nbsp;

Here's another brief example.  Be= ar-Stearns managed to have its "accrued bonuses" and other "insider o= bligations" paid in a bankruptcy proceeding, even though they were "p= reference items", which means they could have been easily reversed or= dispensed with by the bankruptcy court.   But JP Morgan (new ow= ner), Hank (Paulson) and Tim (Geithner) decided that you should pay t= hose bonuses too, and that was back in March of 2008.  Congress = is just finding this all out?  That's a bit of a very long stret= ch, don't you think?  

Notwithstanding = the fact that the bonuses are criminal, it's like focusing on the guy= selling marijuana on the street corner while tons of opium are being= unloaded at the dock behind him, just off-camera, stage-left.  =  

The CDS market keeps rolling, rolling= , and the MSM seems to have stumbled across this phenomenon as "insur= ance."   Meanwhile, Wally is about to double-dip on the downside= through the Geithner/Summers/Wally toxic asset plan and the accounta= nts are strong-armed to reverse policy.  You are going to pick t= he tab for that one too.

Charlie
<= br>

Begin forwarde= d message:

From: Phil Pennock <phil.pennock@spodhuis.org>
Date: April 2, 200= 9 9:34:59 PM EDT
To: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
Subject: Re: [IP] Had enough yet?
<= br>On 2009-04-02 at 20:58 -0400, David Farber forwarded:
> The Mer= rill bonuses were 22 times larger than those paid by AIG
> ($3,620= million versus $165 million).

The CIA World Factbook entry fo= r the USA:
  https://www.cia.gov/library= /publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

lists a US p= opulation of:
  307,212,123 (July 2009 est.)
and ther= e's an older copy which lists:
  303,824,646 (July 2008 = est.)

So between $11.78 and $11.91 for every US resident has j= ust been paid by
in bonuses to one company, from money collected a= s taxes?

Again from the 2009 WFB:
  Labor force:<= br>155.2 million (includes unemployed) (2008 est.)
  Une= mployment rate:
7.2% (December 2008 est.)

So the employed l= abor force can be estimated at 144 million; the 2007
figures from = the 2008 WFB are 153.1m force, 4.6% unemployed, for an
employed la= bor force of 146 million.

So $24.78 per employed person, 2007,= or $25.13 using the shrunk labor
force.

Call it roughly $2= 5 per earning tax-payer. Of tax money.


The AIG figures did= n't upset me too much. It was mildly irritating, but
corruption is= so commonplace that less than 0.1% of the money they got
going to= bonuses ... it wasn't worth getting excited over, given all the
o= ther pork barrel excesses we see.

But this ... this irritates = me.

-Phil


Archives
--Boundary_(ID_d82EfpwCGYar1cKJ5P6YnA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 09:53:37 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHK00F01X9BJC@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 09:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHK00F01X97IY@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 09:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHK00201PWL7F@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 07:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHK00ODAPWKJV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 07:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAD26BF0 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 07:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7368E20D74 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 07:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D820F20D6E for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 07:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n34BFJQa023988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 07:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 07:15:18 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <0CDDBFC8-1F7E-4AFC-90FD-78D321DA28A3@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: E5A3139A-2109-11DE-B5E3-83745660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200904040832.n348W1x1007178@metis.hicks-net.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Gregory Hicks Date: April 4, 2009 4:32:01 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ghicks@hicks-net.net, ip@v2.listbox.com Subject: HITECH: Be afraid, be very afraid Reply-To: Gregory Hicks Dave: For IP if you desire... http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9130996 HITECH: Be afraid, be very afraid By Maureen Martin April 2, 2009 (Network World) Maureen Martin of The Heartland Institute, a think tank promoting public policy based on individual liberty, limited government and free markets, argues that the new Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health (HITECH) Act exposes too much personal information. When President Obama talked about computerizing medical records during the presidential campaign, the plan sounded benign; he said it would give "doctors and nurses easy access to all the necessary information about their patients." But now that his plan has become law, it turns out lots of other people will have "easy access" too. The Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health Act (HITECH) was passed by Congress and signed by President Obama on Feb. 17, 2009, as part of the stimulus bill. Despite supposedly heightened privacy provisions, the details of HITECH are chilling. These, of course, are the very details most members of Congress didn't bother reading before voting for the bill. Under HITECH, every American's "health information" is to be computerized by 2014. Health information is anything to do with "the past, present, or future physical or mental health or condition of an individual." It includes information known to "healthcare providers." Health information is not just what our doctors and nurses know but also information from any source that is known to our employers, schools and universities, which are now all defined as healthcare providers. The government, through the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, is to arrange for this information to be shared not only with direct healthcare providers but also with "the government" and "other interested parties." Creating these computerized records will require a vast assortment of laboring oars, all of which will have access to our electronic health information records. These include the outside "vendors of personal health records" that create and maintain them and the "third-party service providers" that help them out. It also includes "business associates" of "healthcare providers"-- and business associates' lenders, consultants, accountants and lawyers. All of these laboring oars are sworn to secrecy, of course, but what happens if they disclose your records? Not much. If the disclosure is accidental or unintentional, nothing happens. Those whose disclosures are willful may face prosecution for fines from US$10,000 to $100,000. But there are two reasons why this consequence is lame. First, crimes involving specific intent are notoriously difficult to prove. Second, there are no funds for more government prosecutors, who will likely view many privacy violations as too trivial to bother with, even if they are a big deal to the individual involved. And it gets worse. Our electronic health information records can be freely sold for research -- which means any "systematic investigation" aimed at contributing to general knowledge. And our employers can buy these records to "conduct an evaluation relating to medical surveillance of the workplace" and evaluate whether our illnesses or injuries are work-related. So employers can review our health information "just in case" our ailments might be work-related. And there are no restrictions on resale of this information by these employers and researchers. Finally, the U.S. Comptroller General is authorized to examine the extent to which all of this information-sharing is "successful with respect to the quality of the resulting healthcare provided to the individual" and report on this to the U.S. Senate and House. Which means it will be open season on our private information. Participation in this program by health care providers isn't mandatory, but the $19 billion in federal subsidies and penalties for Medicare/Medicaid doctors who don't join in are powerful incentives. There's only one way around all this: The next time you go to the doctor, just say, "Hi, doc, I'm feeling fine." Maureen Martin (mmartin@heartland.org) is senior fellow for legal affairs at The Heartland Institute. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregory Hicks | Principal Systems Engineer | Direct: 408.569.7928 People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf -- George Orwell The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. -- Thomas Jefferson "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." --Alexander Hamilton -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 15:02:11 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00001BJKD3@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00001BJHCX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL003012GPMI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHL00P922GP8E@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A811F94D for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5E21DA1A for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4AB8202C0 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E32202BB for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n34Fhgn8003690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:43:42 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity and Internet To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3B7A5CB1-846C-4AC1-8D09-1441A6BDB4B7@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 62D91EFC-212F-11DE-8B71-874B5660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Tice DeYoung Date: April 4, 2009 10:07:15 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: Tice DeYoung Subject: Re: [IP] Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity and Internet Dave, It is S.773, for those IPers interested. It was read on Thursday. Go to http://www.thomas.gov/bss/111search.html and put s.773 in the search bar. Tice On Apr 3, 2009, at 6:44 PM, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Lauren Weinstein > Date: April 3, 2009 6:31:28 PM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity > and Internet > > > > Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity and > Internet > > http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000534.html > > > Greetings. I'll keep this brief for now. Two U.S. Senators have > proposed new legislation that would provide for a massive increase in > federal involvement into key aspects of "cybersecurity," plus direct > impacts on the global Internet's operations, control, and even the > "certification and licensing" of related personnel. > > The draft bill, a copy of which I have archived here: > > http://lauren.vortex.com/Cyber-S-2009.pdf > > is of such broad and encompassing scope that I won't even try to > critique it in detail yet. I urge you to read through it for > yourself -- and hold on to your hats. > > Thought experiment: How will the rest of the world react to this > proposal? > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein > lauren@vortex.com > Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 > http://www.pfir.org/lauren > Co-Founder, PFIR > - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org > Co-Founder, NNSquad > - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org > Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition > for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org > Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com > Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy > Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com > Twitter: LW1 > > > > > ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 15:02:12 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00001BJKD3@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00001BJHCX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL004012V2CM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHL00PE42V18E@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979716278 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BD7C9C2F for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBEFC2045D for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463FE20452 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n34FpDOU003792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:51:12 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: TSA demands to know source of traveler's cash To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_NvSeFNptSH1Y1KVx3OCzLQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 6E864BC0-2130-11DE-96F8-276D5660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <8981c7040904040549u64c0646di92f37cfc8c06adba@mail.gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_NvSeFNptSH1Y1KVx3OCzLQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Sheryl Coe - Reportica Date: April 4, 2009 8:49:58 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: TSA demands to know source of traveler's cash You aren't familiar with our own Judge Napalotano! Author of many popular books on the Constitution and a native of New Jersey. I don't agree with all of his positions, but he's honest. Not a newcomer to caring about the constitution, but from a libertarian perspective. (In other words, the man who will give Bush AND Obama a hard time.) Look him up at Amazon.com including his past books such as Constitutional Chaos: What Happens When the Government Breaks its Own Laws. I don't agree with him on many issues, but I always listen to his arguments. Unfortunately, he makes the mistake often of acting as an mere electoral spoiler, pulling votes of those dissatisified to third parties. You are surprised Napolotano is on Fox? I myself am always suprised at people who see Fox News as having a principled stance. Which brings me to my second reason for posting... Fox News doesn't have opinions. They have profits, ratings and stakeholders who seek them. Fox is after ratings through unprincipled populism. Be it Sarah Palin or Ron Paul... If Fox thought Obama supporters were a demographic they could grab, they'd have The Daily Kos Nightly Report in prime time. For IP'ers of the NOT-FOX-NEWS political persuasion. The solution is not just to turn to MSNBC for news, because although Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow do care, immensely, they are carried on that network only as long as they bring in good ratings in especially hard-to-reach younger demographics. The solution is breaking up media monopolies. The solution to Fox News is not the liberal alternative, it's a diversity of ownership and viewpoints. Anti-trust and media ownership laws need to be revised with the current crises in mind. Smaller and more responsive companies will make democracy, and capitalism, work. Many corporate contributors will argue otherwise. So the voice of small-is-good needs to be heard. House: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml Senate: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm President: http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/ Those of us that elected Obama should not believe that supporting him means not criticising him. He's a born moderate. He builds consensus among parties whenever possible. Supporters of 'small is good' in business, media and government, need to show up at the party to be considered in the solution. Both segments of Bill Moyer's Journal this week (April 3rd) did a good job of making the case: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html Just a thought for IP... thanks for the always-lively discussion. Sheryl On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:28 AM, David Farber wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Dan Gillmor Date: April 3, 2009 10:42:39 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: TSA demands to know source of traveler's cash Dave, There's a modest silver lining in this report. Consider that it's on Fox News, and that one of the commentators on this program finds this situation scary. Recall, meanwhile, that Fox News and its allies have been among the loudest cheerleaders for the shredding of the Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights, during the past few years. Their hypocrisy aside, let's celebrate if Fox and others on the political right are suddenly rediscovering the value of civil liberties. Dan Subject: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording "Man detained and harassed at airport for carrying CASH!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMB6L487LHM&feature=channel_page ------------------------------------------- -- Sheryl Coe web@reportica.net Reportica www.Reportica.net ______________________ ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_NvSeFNptSH1Y1KVx3OCzLQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Sheryl Coe - Reportica <we= b@reportica.net>
Date: April 4, 2009 8:49:58 AM EDT<= /font>
Judge Napalotano! = Author of many popular books on the Constitution and a native of New= Jersey. I don't agree with all of his positions, but he's honest. No= t a newcomer to caring about the constitution, but from a libertarian= perspective. (In other words, the man who will give Bush AND Obama a= hard time.) Look him up at Amazon.com including his= past books such as Constitutional Chaos: What Happens When the Go= vernment Breaks its Own Laws. I don't agree with him on many issu= es, but I always listen to his arguments. Unfortunately, he makes the= mistake often of acting as an mere electoral spoiler, pulling votes = of those dissatisified to third parties.

You are surprised Napolotano is on Fox? I myself am alw= ays suprised at people who see Fox News as having a principled stance= . Which brings me to my second reason for posting...

Fo= x News doesn't have opinions. They have profits, ratings and stakehol= ders who seek them.  Fox is after ratings through unprincipled p= opulism.  Be it Sarah Palin or Ron Paul... If Fox thought Obama = supporters were a demographic they could grab, they'd have The Daily = Kos Nightly Report in prime time.

For IP'ers of the NOT-FOX-= NEWS political persuasion. The solution is not just to turn to MSNBC = for news, because although Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow do care,= immensely, they are carried on that network only as long as they bri= ng in good ratings in especially hard-to-reach younger demographics. =

The solution is breaking up media monopolies.  The solu= tion to Fox News is not the liberal alternative, it's a diversity of = ownership and viewpoints.  Anti-trust and media ownership laws n= eed to be revised with the current crises in mind. 

Sma= ller and more responsive companies will make democracy, and capitalis= m, work.  Many corporate contributors will argue otherwise. So t= he voice of small-is-good needs to be heard.

<= br>Those of us that elected Obama should not believe that supporting = him means not criticising him. He's a born moderate. He builds consen= sus among parties whenever possible.  Supporters of 'small is go= od' in business, media and government, need to show up at the party t= o be considered in the solution.

Both segments of Bill Moyer= 's Journal this week (April 3rd) did a good job of making the cas= e:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html
Just a thought for IP... thanks for the always-lively discussion.
Sheryl


On Fri, Apr 3, 2009= at 11:28 AM, David Farber <dave@farber.net> wrote:


Begin forw= arded message:

From: Dan Gillmor <dan@gillmor.com>
Date: April 3,= 2009 10:42:39 AM EDT
To: dave@farber.net
Subject: Re: TSA demands to kno= w source of traveler's cash

Dave,

There's a modest = silver lining in this report. Consider that it's on Fox News, and tha= t one of the commentators on this program finds this situation scary.= Recall, meanwhile, that Fox News and its allies have been among the = loudest cheerleaders for the shredding of the Constitution, particula= rly the Bill of Rights, during the past few years.

Their hyp= ocrisy aside, let's celebrate if Fox and others on the political righ= t are suddenly rediscovering the value of civil liberties.

D= an

Subject: Truly Disturbing TSA Recording

"Man detaine= d and harassed at airport for carrying CASH!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXMB6L487LHM&f= eature=3Dchannel_page





=
-------------------------------------------
Archives: http://www.listbox.com



--

Sheryl Coe
web@reportica.net

Reportica
www.Reportica.net
______________________
<= br>

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_NvSeFNptSH1Y1KVx3OCzLQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 15:02:13 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00001BJKD3@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00001BJHCX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL004012YJKW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHL00PEV2YJ8E@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9A66944 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2978A12BEB for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285D21CD01 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36ACE1CCFB for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n34FncaS026742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:49:37 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <7E7F8FBF-560D-4952-B7F7-F0DB7354B0BC@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 36176616-2130-11DE-9D6B-7D135C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200904041347.n34Dl6wf015703@tirebiter.ucsd.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Steve Lamont Date: April 4, 2009 9:47:06 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info > April 2, 2009 (Network World) Maureen Martin of The Heartland > Institute, a think tank promoting public policy based on individual > liberty, limited government and free markets, argues that the new > Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health > (HITECH) > Act exposes too much personal information. Heartland Institute is also very much in the forefront of the climate change (aka global warming) denial movement, and is funded by numerous extremely conservative foundations, such as the Scaife Foundations, which also funded the highly corrosive "Arkansas Project" durning the Clinton administration, the John M Olin Foundation, and Walton Family Foundation. It was funded by ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2005, according to Source Watch. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute When Heartland speaks, I generally turn the page. spl -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 15:02:14 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00001BJKD3@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00001BJHCX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL006013FK3A@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHL0060B3FK19@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18A26DE2 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1EF12F1E for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEA801CD1C for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9E91CD16 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n34FpDOV003792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:51:32 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity and Internet To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 795FA88E-2130-11DE-847D-39175C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Brock N. Meeks" Date: April 4, 2009 12:52:03 AM EDT To: Subject: Re: [IP] Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity and Internet Lauren is dead bang on. In fact, he's being remarkably restrained; there should be a clarion call out on this beast. Imagine a President able to seize the (U.S. Side) of the Internet, I mean shut the mother down as in "no one can 'see' it," and given the power to do that with no more justification than declaring a "national security emergency." No criteria for what a national security emergency must be is defined in the bill. It harkens back to the famous Vietnam era quote: "We had to destroy the village to save it." In this case it's "we have to seize the Net to save the Net." I'm hoping staff counsel were just nodding off when drafting this and phoned in the language and tomorrow we'll wake up and they will say, "Oh, c'mon, Brock, grow up... What we were really trying to do was..." or perhaps they were too distracted watching the bottoms fall out of their 401(k) plans. Here's part of a Huffington Post column: "[The Senators] propose a sweeping federal take over of all cyber security efforts that gives the President plenary power over the Internet and other as yet to be identified "critical infrastructure." In addition to the power to seize and shut down the Internet in the U.S., the President is given the power "in an emergency" to limit Internet traffic to any "critical infrastructure information system," and puts the Commerce Department at the helm of a federal cyber security clearinghouse with the express power to override all laws and regulations, including those designed to protect privacy, to "obtain access to all relevant data" concerning critical infrastructure information systems and networks owned by the private sector." Seriously, I'm not making this stuff up. More here [link goes to Huffington Post blog entry]: http://is.gd/qFaa On 4/3/09 6:44 PM, "David Farber" wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Lauren Weinstein > Date: April 3, 2009 6:31:28 PM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity > and Internet > > > > Senators Propose Massive Federal Control Over Cybersecurity and > Internet > > http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000534.html > > > Greetings. I'll keep this brief for now. Two U.S. Senators have > proposed new legislation that would provide for a massive increase in > federal involvement into key aspects of "cybersecurity," plus direct > impacts on the global Internet's operations, control, and even the > "certification and licensing" of related personnel. > > The draft bill, a copy of which I have archived here: > > http://lauren.vortex.com/Cyber-S-2009.pdf > > is of such broad and encompassing scope that I won't even try to > critique it in detail yet. I urge you to read through it for > yourself -- and hold on to your hats. > > Thought experiment: How will the rest of the world react to this > proposal? > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein > lauren@vortex.com > Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 > http://www.pfir.org/lauren > Co-Founder, PFIR > - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org > Co-Founder, NNSquad > - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org > Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition > for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org > Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com > Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy > Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com > Twitter: LW1 > > > > > ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 20:43:22 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00601RC7G6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00601RC2FT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00K01LK1R3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHL00JBILK1N2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C729D7 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D55669 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1B05F for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n34McdGl008423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:38:39 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] The Scariest Monster of All Sues for Trademark Infringement To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SQyv/dgu9hue6wqKxV1nVA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 6743ED5C-2169-11DE-AFEB-94EAD02E787F X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_SQyv/dgu9hue6wqKxV1nVA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Don Drake Date: April 4, 2009 2:17:40 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: The Scariest Monster of All Sues for Trademark Infringement Dave, for IP. Looks like Monster Cable has some Monster lawyers. I hope they don't sue me for saying so. -Don From today's WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123869022704882969.html The Scariest Monster of All Sues for Trademark Infringement By STEVE STECKLOW When Christina and Patrick Vitagliano dreamed up their Monster Mini Golf franchises -- 18-hole, indoor putting greens straddled by glow-in- the-dark statues of ghouls and gargoyles -- they never imagined that a California maker of high-end audio cables would object. But Monster Cable Products Inc., which holds more than 70 trademarks on the word monster, challenged the Vitaglianos' trademark applications. It filed a federal lawsuit against their company in California and demanded the Rhode Island couple surrender the name and pay at least $80,000 for the right to use it. "It really seemed absurd," says Ms. Vitagliano. The legal actions were nothing new for Monster Cable, which was granted its first "Monster" trademark in 1980. Since then, the company has fought more monsters than Godzilla did. Over the years, it has gone after purveyors of monster-branded auto transmissions, slot machines, glue, carpet-cleaning machines and an energy drink, as well as a woman who sells "Junk Food Monster" kids' T- shirts that promote good eating habits. It sued Monster.com over the job-hunting Web site's name and Walt Disney Co. over products tied to the film "Monsters Inc." It opposed the Boston Red Sox trademark applications for seats and hot dogs named for the Green Monster, the legendary left-field wall in Fenway Park. All in all, Monster Cable says it has fought about 190 monster battles at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and filed around 30 monster lawsuits in federal courts. Along the way, it has attracted its share of ire from those who say it is overreaching and trying to corner the market on a word, not a brand. "If Monster Cable prevails, the Gila monster will become just another lizard" and "the monster under your bed will have to become an ogre," wrote Michael Meadors of tabberone.com, a Web site that sells fabrics and also keeps tabs on trademark issues. "Monster Cable's practice of suing anyone using the word 'Monster' in their name is nothing short of playground bullying," says Robert Holloway, a computer contractor in Iowa who set up a Web site called monstercablebully.com to support the Vitaglianos. Monster Cable says its trademark challenges are a matter of necessity. "If you don't defend your mark, and people use [it], it runs the risk of becoming generic and then you lose the mark," says Noel Lee, founder of the Brisbane, Calif., company, whose corporate title is "Head Monster." Mr. Lee says the company sells many other monster- branded products besides cables that it has to protect, including music, clothing and candy mints. To a legal novice, it may seem odd that a common word like monster can be trademarked at all. But in the complex and sometimes murky world of trademark law, common words can be registered, provided they are associated with specific classes of goods. Apple Inc., for example, holds trademarks for the word apple when it's related to computer products, not fruit. Sometimes, trademarks can obtain a higher order of protection, known as "famous marks." This category is supposed to be reserved for words that have become so entwined with a product and a company -- like the word visa and Visa Inc.'s credit card -- that the trademark owner can argue that no other product may use the word in its name. David Tognotti, Monster Cable's general manager and an attorney, says the company considers "Monster" a famous mark -- on a par with Barbie dolls or Camel cigarettes. "We're protecting our mark as if it's a famous mark," he said in an interview in Monster Cable's headquarters, where the walls are lined with framed copies of the company's trademarks and patents. Mr. Tognotti cited a chapter on famous marks in the law book "McCarthy on Trademarks and Unfair Competition" by J. Thomas McCarthy, a noted expert in the field. But in an interview, Prof. McCarthy expressed doubt that Monster Cable possesses a famous mark. He said such determinations are made by courts. Mr. Tognotti acknowledges Monster Cable hasn't obtained such a court ruling. Most of the company's lawsuits have been settled privately under confidential terms. In some instances -- such as the case of the Discovery Channel's reality auto show, Monster Garage -- companies have surrendered their trademarks to Monster Cable, which sometimes licenses them back for a fee. Discovery Channel declined to comment. The show is no longer in production. In its federal civil lawsuit against Monster.com, Mr. Tognotti says owner Monster Worldwide Inc. agreed to pay Monster Cable's legal fees and post a clickable link to its Web site on Monster.com that says, "Looking for Monster Cable?" A spokesman for Monster Worldwide acknowledged the lawsuit was resolved but wouldn't discuss details. A Disney spokesman says the company settled the lawsuit over Monster Inc.-related products without paying any compensation. Mr. Tognotti of Monster Cable says his company dropped the lawsuit after determining there was no trademark infringement. He says Monster Cable has no plans to pursue the new DreamWorks Animation film, "Monsters vs Aliens." Says Mr. Tognotti: "We do not have a concern if a company is using the word 'monster' in a purely descriptive sense to describe actual monsters." As for the Red Sox, Mr. Tognotti says the team agreed to withdraw or modify some of its trademark registrations for Green Monster-related products after Monster Cable argued there was "confusion in the marketplace." At the time, San Francisco's Candlestick Park was called Monster Park because Monster Cable had bought the naming rights. A Red Sox attorney referred questions to Major League Baseball, where a spokesman said the team had agreed with Monster Cable over a "procedural matter" but declined to elaborate. Occasionally, Monster Cable has retreated. After it sued MonsterVintage LLC, an online used-clothing store based in Oregon, owner Victor Petrucci says he drove a rented truck to Monster Cable's headquarters and around San Francisco for two weeks. It was emblazoned with a giant sign that read in part, "Monster Cable S-." Monster Cable dropped the lawsuit. "We have to balance what we do legally to protect our mark with that of public opinion," says Mr. Lee, adding, "We're very sensitive to our reputation." The Vitaglianos say their monstrous fight erupted in 2006, two years after the couple opened their first mini-golf course. "It never occurred to me that a cable company might not like it," she says. Adds her husband, "We just all assumed it was going to go away." Their attorney, Arthur L. Pressman, says he suggested they consider changing the name to Scary Mary's Monster Mini Golf to play down the word monster. But the couple refused to back down. By late last year, with their legal bills approaching $100,000, they agreed to try mediation. But after 10 hours, "we got really angry and sort of stormed away," says Ms. Vitagliano. The couple then launched an Internet-based guerrilla campaign to generate public support. "We blogged nonstop, around the clock, for weeks, and enlisted much of our staff to do the same," she says. The couple offered to sell symbolic slices of "Justice" for $1 on eBay and raised about $4,400 for their legal defense. Two days before Christmas, she sent Mr. Lee a DVD of the film, "How the Grinch Stole Christmas." Monster Cable's Mr. Lee says the company also received at least 200 angry consumer complaints. After speaking with the Vitaglianos, he decided to drop the lawsuit, withdraw his company's opposition to Monster Mini Golf's trademark applications and pay up to $200,000 of their legal expenses. -- Don Drake www.drakeconsulting.com www.maillaunder.com 312-560-1574 800-733-2143 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_SQyv/dgu9hue6wqKxV1nVA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Don Drake <don@drake= consulting.com>
Date: April 4, 2009 2:17:40 PM = EDT
Subject: The Scariest Monster of All Sues for= Trademark Infringement


Dave, for IP.  Looks like Monster Cable has some Mons= ter lawyers.  I hope they don't sue me for saying so.

-Don

<= /div>
From today'= s WSJ:


The Scari= est Monster of All Sues for Trademark Infringement
<= font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Arial">
=
By STEVE STECKLO= W

When Christina and Patrick Vitagliano drea= med up their Monster Mini Golf franchises -- 18-hole, indoor putting = greens straddled by glow-in-the-dark statues of ghouls and gargoyles = -- they never imagined that a California maker of high-end audio cabl= es would object.

But Monster Cable Products = Inc., which holds more than 70 trademarks on the word monster, challe= nged the Vitaglianos' trademark applications. It filed a federal laws= uit against their company in California and demanded the Rhode Island= couple surrender the name and pay at least $80,000 for the right to = use it.

"It really seemed absurd," says Ms. = Vitagliano.

The legal actions were nothing n= ew for Monster Cable, which was granted its first "Monster" trademark= in 1980. Since then, the company has fought more monsters than Godzi= lla did.

Over the years, it has gone after p= urveyors of monster-branded auto transmissions, slot machines, glue, = carpet-cleaning machines and an energy drink, as well as a woman who = sells "Junk Food Monster" kids' T-shirts that promote good eating hab= its. It sued Monster.com over the job-hunting Web site's name and Wal= t Disney Co. over products tied to the film "Monsters Inc." It oppose= d the Boston Red Sox trademark applications for seats and hot dogs na= med for the Green Monster, the legendary left-field wall in Fenway Pa= rk. All in all, Monster Cable says it has fought about 190 monster ba= ttles at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and filed around 30 mon= ster lawsuits in federal courts.

Along the w= ay, it has attracted its share of ire from those who say it is overre= aching and trying to corner the market on a word, not a brand. "If Mo= nster Cable prevails, the Gila monster will become just another lizar= d" and "the monster under your bed will have to become an ogre," wrot= e Michael Meadors of tabberone.com, a Web site that sells fabrics and= also keeps tabs on trademark issues.

"Monst= er Cable's practice of suing anyone using the word 'Monster' in their= name is nothing short of playground bullying," says Robert Holloway,= a computer contractor in Iowa who set up a Web site called monsterca= blebully.com to support the Vitaglianos.

Mon= ster Cable says its trademark challenges are a matter of necessity. "= If you don't defend your mark, and people use [it], it runs the risk = of becoming generic and then you lose the mark," says Noel Lee, found= er of the Brisbane, Calif., company, whose corporate title is "Head M= onster." Mr. Lee says the company sells many other monster-branded pr= oducts besides cables that it has to protect, including music, clothi= ng and candy mints.

To a legal novice, it ma= y seem odd that a common word like monster can be trademarked at all.= But in the complex and sometimes murky world of trademark law, commo= n words can be registered, provided they are associated with specific= classes of goods. Apple Inc., for example, holds trademarks for the = word apple when it's related to computer products, not fruit.

Sometimes, trademarks can obtain a higher order of = protection, known as "famous marks." This category is supposed to be = reserved for words that have become so entwined with a product and a = company -- like the word visa and Visa Inc.'s credit card -- that the= trademark owner can argue that no other product may use the word in = its name.

David Tognotti, Monster Cable's ge= neral manager and an attorney, says the company considers "Monster" a= famous mark -- on a par with Barbie dolls or Camel cigarettes. "We'r= e protecting our mark as if it's a famous mark," he said in an interv= iew in Monster Cable's headquarters, where the walls are lined with f= ramed copies of the company's trademarks and patents.

<= /div>
Mr. Tognotti cited a chapter on famous marks in the law boo= k "McCarthy on Trademarks and Unfair Competition" by J. Thomas McCart= hy, a noted expert in the field.

But in an i= nterview, Prof. McCarthy expressed doubt that Monster Cable possesses= a famous mark. He said such determinations are made by courts. Mr. T= ognotti acknowledges Monster Cable hasn't obtained such a court rulin= g.

Most of the company's lawsuits have been = settled privately under confidential terms. In some instances -- such= as the case of the Discovery Channel's reality auto show, Monster Ga= rage -- companies have surrendered their trademarks to Monster Cable,= which sometimes licenses them back for a fee. Discovery Channel decl= ined to comment. The show is no longer in production.

<= /div>
In its federal civil lawsuit against Monster.com, Mr. Togno= tti says owner Monster Worldwide Inc. agreed to pay Monster Cable's l= egal fees and post a clickable link to its Web site on Monster.com th= at says, "Looking for Monster Cable?" A spokesman for Monster Worldwi= de acknowledged the lawsuit was resolved but wouldn't discuss details= .

A Disney spokesman says the company settle= d the lawsuit over Monster Inc.-related products without paying any c= ompensation. Mr. Tognotti of Monster Cable says his company dropped t= he lawsuit after determining there was no trademark infringement.

He says Monster Cable has no plans to pursue th= e new DreamWorks Animation film, "Monsters vs Aliens." Says Mr. Togno= tti: "We do not have a concern if a company is using the word 'monste= r' in a purely descriptive sense to describe actual monsters."
<= div>
As for the Red Sox, Mr. Tognotti says the team agr= eed to withdraw or modify some of its trademark registrations for Gre= en Monster-related products after Monster Cable argued there was "con= fusion in the marketplace." At the time, San Francisco's Candlestick = Park was called Monster Park because Monster Cable had bought the nam= ing rights. A Red Sox attorney referred questions to Major League Bas= eball, where a spokesman said the team had agreed with Monster Cable = over a "procedural matter" but declined to elaborate.

<= /div>
Occasionally, Monster Cable has retreated. After it sued Mo= nsterVintage LLC, an online used-clothing store based in Oregon, owne= r Victor Petrucci says he drove a rented truck to Monster Cable's hea= dquarters and around San Francisco for two weeks. It was emblazoned w= ith a giant sign that read in part, "Monster Cable S-." Monster Cable= dropped the lawsuit.

"We have to balance wh= at we do legally to protect our mark with that of public opinion," sa= ys Mr. Lee, adding, "We're very sensitive to our reputation."

The Vitaglianos say their monstrous fight erupted i= n 2006, two years after the couple opened their first mini-golf cours= e. "It never occurred to me that a cable company might not like it," = she says. Adds her husband, "We just all assumed it was going to go a= way."

Their attorney, Arthur L. Pressman, sa= ys he suggested they consider changing the name to Scary Mary's Monst= er Mini Golf to play down the word monster. But the couple refused to= back down. By late last year, with their legal bills approaching $10= 0,000, they agreed to try mediation. But after 10 hours, "we got real= ly angry and sort of stormed away," says Ms. Vitagliano.
The couple then launched an Internet-based guerrilla cam= paign to generate public support. "We blogged nonstop, around the clo= ck, for weeks, and enlisted much of our staff to do the same," she sa= ys. The couple offered to sell symbolic slices of "Justice" for $1 on= eBay and raised about $4,400 for their legal defense. Two days befor= e Christmas, she sent Mr. Lee a DVD of the film, "How the Grinch Stol= e Christmas."

Monster Cable's Mr. Lee says t= he company also received at least 200 angry consumer complaints. Afte= r speaking with the Vitaglianos, he decided to drop the lawsuit, with= draw his company's opposition to Monster Mini Golf's trademark applic= ations and pay up to $200,000 of their legal expenses.

--
Don Drake=
www.maillaunder.com
312-560-1574
800-73= 3-2143


Archives
--Boundary_(ID_SQyv/dgu9hue6wqKxV1nVA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 20:43:23 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00601RC7G6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00601RC2FT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00L01LQY3P@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHL00JEPLQYN2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D086734 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F50D0739 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79B911CFC5 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43AD71CFBB for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n34McdGm008423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:39:17 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Twitter vs Telecom and the RIAA vs Newspapers. To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <161B81D1-6D27-4C60-8924-1AF8CDEBAFC6@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_utx4IzznfC0OybyF0/XASA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 6FE96036-2169-11DE-9D10-DC125C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <028001c9b53f$29671b80$7c355280$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_utx4IzznfC0OybyF0/XASA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: April 4, 2009 12:05:22 PM EDT To: Subject: Twitter vs Telecom and the RIAA vs Newspapers. With stories (in the newspapers) about Google buying Twitter I can= =92t =20 help but wonder about the emphasis on high-speed broadband even as th= e =20 ultimate example of an extremely low bandwidth application is =20 thriving. Tweets need 24x7 connectivity, wired/unwired, and that=92s = =20 well within the capacity of today=92s infrastructure. So why don=92t = we =20 work to remove the barriers rather than waiting for an HDTV Internet? You can think of telemedicine messages, farm information, fire alarms= , =20 and a myriad other exchanges being in this ilk. I don=92t mean litera= lly =20 tweeting =96 messages between devices is likely to dominate as in the= =20 example of farm machinery responding to a weather forecast or your = =20 doctor=92s computer tracking your heart events. Just as a reminder of why today=92s business models are going to be = =20 problematic -- AT&T and Verizon tout wireless gadgets: "We can't = =20 expect people to have five different accounts," Tony Melone, CTO of = =20 Verizon Wireless, said during an interview this week. =91There needs = to =20 be a mechanism that allows people to have some kind of account for = =20 multiple.=92" There is a trivial solution =96 shift to an infrastruct= ure =20 models but we are in an increasingly painful period as we try to forc= e =20 ourselves to live within business models that are increasingly out of= =20 touch with reality =96 if the shoe doesn=92t fit then don=92t wear it= ! Even =20 more so when we have models (shoes) that do fit. This doesn=92t mean we should be indifferent to challenges to today= =92s =20 business models. While we have alternatives to telecom we are still = =20 struggling to find a post-newspaper model for getting information tha= t =20 can=92t necessarily be gathered via per click funding. Times Co. may shut Globe; seeks union concessions The New York Times Co. has threatened to shut The Boston Globe unless= =20 the newspaper's unions swiftly agree to $20 million in concessions, = =20 union leaders said yesterday. (By Robert Gavin and Robert Weisman, = =20 Globe Staff) With all the political support for the RIAA out of fear that artists = =20 won=92t get paid why are we so uncaring about the fate of news worker= s =20 who are so vital for a functioning democracy? ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_utx4IzznfC0OybyF0/XASA) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: April 4, 2= 009 12:05:22 PM EDT
Subject: Twitter= vs Telecom and the RIAA vs Newspapers.

With stories (in the= newspapers) about Google buying Twitter I can=92t help but wonder ab= out the emphasis on high-speed broadband even as the ultimate example= of an extremely low bandwidth application is thriving. Tweets need 2= 4x7 connectivity, wired/unwired, and that=92s well within the capacit= y of today=92s infrastructure. So why don=92t we work to remove the b= arriers rather than waiting for an HDTV Internet?
 
You can think of telemedicine= messages, farm information, fire alarms, and a myriad other exchange= s being in this ilk. I don=92t mean literally tweeting =96 messages b= etween devices is likely to dominate as in the example of farm machin= ery responding to a weather forecast or your doctor=92s computer trac= king your heart events.
 
Just as a reminder of why today=92s business models are= going to be problematic --&nbs= p;AT&T and Verizon tout wireless gadgets: "We can't expect pe= ople to have five different accounts," Tony Melone, CTO of Verizon Wi= reless, said during an interview this week. =91There needs to be a me= chanism that = allows peop= le to have some kind of account for multiple.=92" There is a trivial = solution =96 shift to an infrastructure models but we are in an incre= asingly painful period as we try to force ourselves to live within bu= siness models that are increasingly out of touch with reality =96 if = the shoe doesn=92t fit then don=92t wear it! Even more so when we hav= e models (shoes) that do fit.
 
This doesn=92t mean we should be indifferent to c= hallenges to today=92s business models. While we have alternatives to= telecom we are still struggling to find a post-newspaper model for g= etting information that can=92t necessarily be gathered via per click= funding.
 

Times Co. may shut Gl= obe; seeks union concessions

The New York Times Co. h= as threatened to shut The Boston Globe unless the newspaper's unions = swiftly agree to $20 million in concessions, union leaders said yeste= rday. (By Robert Gavin and Robert Weisman, Globe Staff)=
=  
With all the political support for t= he RIAA out of fear that artists won=92t get paid why are we so uncar= ing about the fate of news workers who are so vital for a functioning= democracy?

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_utx4IzznfC0OybyF0/XASA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Apr 4 20:43:24 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00601RC7G6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00601RC2FT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHL00L01LVOG9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHL00JFYLVON2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE306DDE for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E5D12317 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:47:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8DA2032B for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D2A20321 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n34McdGn008423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:40:06 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: our economy explained! To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_FD6VZKK6xGYifMZC/6Hiqg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 8D182A66-2169-11DE-81DD-6F495660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <0F4D5816-AF51-4F10-A000-DCB193884F87@flyingcircuit.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_FD6VZKK6xGYifMZC/6Hiqg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Charles Brown Date: April 4, 2009 12:10:42 PM EDT To: inventor@rentaninventor.com, David Farber Cc: Charles Brown Subject: FW: our economy explained! George, a good metaphor, but it is incomplete. Unfortunately, our = =20 situation is much worse. There is also a members-only "casino room" at the back of Heidi's bar= =20 where betting between and among the players takes place 24x7. The = =20 betting is on the various features of the AAA-DRINKBONDS; interest = =20 rate, creditworthiness, term, anything that can be bet on. It isn't = =20 like "insurance" at all, as the MSM stooges tell us. It is one-on-on= e =20 gambling, by and among the members of the casino room. Here's how it= =20 works. One party might bet on the creditworthiness, interest rate, or even = =20 the color of DRINKBOND, as being fairly-valued, increasing or =20 decreasing in value, etc. It didn't matter if a "counter-party" to a= =20 bet owned the DRINKBOND, he/she could still bet with anyone who would= =20 take the other side of the bet on any of DRINKBONDS features and = =20 terms. If a 3rd party purchased the bond, the casino would sell them= =20 a CDS contract to cover their downside risk; the 3rd party would bu= y =20 a CDS contract DIRECTLY from member of the casino, like AIG, Goldman-= =20 Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Lehman, et al. The players in = =20 the casino might issue these CDS's, "counterparty obligations", to = =20 each other or 3rd-party investors on this basis. The might even = =20 resell them and hedge them several times, thus increasing the overall= =20 betting on that single DRINKBOND. The casino members could bet on = =20 nothing more than the fluctuating value of the interest rate on the = =20 bond. They were making fortunes, and marketing the game worldwide. = =20 Year after year hundreds of billions in bonuses, "profits", and other= =20 compensation flowed to Wally and his friends. Heidi and the other bar patrons were just "feeders" for these =20 transactions. The casino room had a separate entrance and exit and = =20 never mingled with Heidi's regular patrons. But the underlying = =20 securities that were created at Heidi's, and were later packaged and = =20 sold by the casino members, are the very same "counterparties" you = =20 hear about - the investment banks, who are now, most conveniently, = =20 commercial banks. How did former investment banks like Goldman-Sachs= , =20 JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley become commercial banks? Was it = =20 convenient for them to avail themselves of new rules and government = =20 largesse? And do it over one weekend - a Saturday and Sunday and wer= e =20 commercial banks on Monday? Answer: A corrupt Treasury Dept. and = =20 Congress. Wally has managed to masterfully spin the MSM. Most of the salient = =20 information is coming from blogs and other sources, not the MSM. = =20 Why? Because Wally and the MSM are partners too. The same is =20 certainly true of our fearless leaders. Another brief example is Rah= m =20 Emanuel. He used to be the "bag man" for Congress over at Freddie = =20 Mac, where he served on the Board of Directors. He brought truck-= =20 loads of cash to the Dems congressional political campaigns, courtesy= =20 of Freddie - a corrupt nexus tool. Repub or Dem, doesn't matter. Let's review: Wally + Congress =3D corrupt nexus. The MSM as a corp= s =20 of dumb-waiters doing the bidding of the corrupt nexus. The nexus = =20 serves-up the menu for consumption as instructed, more or less, the = =20 MSM serves it to you and I through Wally-controlled distribution = =20 channels. There are only a few exceptions left in the 4th estate, wh= o =20 have abandoned any pretense of performing under their constitutional = =20 imperative. This may help to explain how it is that we find ourselve= s =20 in this bizarre, public dialogue. We are picking-up the tab for the toxic securities issued via Heidi's= =20 and the bets made in the casino room. What remains a fantastic fact = =20 is that we still don't know how much it is! Wally and Congress don't= =20 want us to know and are pulling out all of the stops to prevent that = =20 =66rom happening, and to keep the casino open. Wally, Geithner, = =20 Summers, MSM, all tell us that there are just problems of perception = =20 regarding the value of these instruments; and yes, we also have = =20 "serious problems." That the market has just overreacted in the = =20 spiral of downward pricing and liquidity on these instruments. In = =20 fact, we have massive fraud (wealth transfer) and criminality in our = =20 commerce and government. I stand in awe of Wally's spin-machine and power to control Congress = =20 and the media. I never underestimate Wally in this regard, but this = =20 is surreal. Over one year later we have thousands of Wally's and = =20 hundreds of Congressman and Senators framing the debate over =20 "entitlements" of all sorts, still in their positions, still =20 practicing obfuscation, and still operating the casino, when justice = =20 demands nothing less for them than a permanent residence in a cell at= =20 Leavenworth and closing the casino, forever. Charlie Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "George Margolin" Date: April 1, 2009 3:26:52 PM EDT To: "'David Farber'" Subject: FW: our economy explained! Reply-To: Dave =96 I have NEVER sent a broadcast email before. But THIS one is clever, and sadly =96 probably accurate in explaining our financial meltdown. And having been born in Detroit =96 and having worked my way through college in many of the auto plants =96 it has =91AHAA!=94 =96 written= all over it. IF you haven=92t seen it I thought you=92d enjoy it and do with it wh= at you will. Best regards from an appreciative recipient of your list. Regards, George Margolin inventor@pobox.com Subject: our economy explained! =7F It all makes sense now, Subject: Derivative markets, an understandable explanation Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Detroit . In order to increase sales, she decides to allow her loyal customers - most of whom are unemployed alcoholics - to drink now but pay later. She keeps track o= f the drinks consumed on a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans= ). Word gets around about Heidi's drink now pay later marketing strategy and as a result, increasing numbers of customers flood into Heidi's b= ar and soon she has the largest sale volume for any bar in Detroit . By providing her customers' freedom from immediate payment demands, Heidi gets no resistance when she substantially increases her prices for wine and beer, the most consumed beverages. Her sales volume increases massively. A young and dynamic vice-president at the local bank recognizes these customer debts as valuable future assets and increases Heidi's borrowing limit. He sees no reason for undue concern since he has the debts of the alcoholics as collateral. At the bank's corporate headquarters, expert traders transform these customer loans into DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS. These securities are then traded on security markets worldwide. Naive investors don't really understand the securities being sold to them a= s AAA secured bonds are really the debts of unemployed alcoholics. Nevertheless, their prices continuously climb, and the securities become the top-selling items for some of the nation's leading brokera= ge houses. One day, although the bond prices are still climbing, a risk manager = at the bank (subsequently fired due his negativity), decides that the ti= me has come to demand payment on the debts incurred by the drinkers at Heidi's. Heidi demands payment from her alcoholic patrons, but being unemployed they cannot pay back their drinking debts. Therefore, Heid= i cannot fulfill her loan obligations and claims bankruptcy. DRINKBOND and ALKIBOND drop in price by 90 %. PUKEBOND performs bette= r, stabilizing in price after dropping by 80 %. The decreased bond asset value destroys the banks liquidity and prevents it from issuing new loans. The suppliers of Heidi's bar, having granted her generous payment extensions and having invested in the securities are faced with writi= ng off her debt and losing over 80% on her bonds. Her wine supplier clai= ms bankruptcy, her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor, who immediately closes the local plant and lays off 50 workers. The bank and brokerage houses are saved by the Government following dramatic round-the-clock negotiations by leaders from both political parties. The funds required for this bailout are obtained by a tax levied on employed middle-class non-drinkers. Finally an explanation I understand ..... ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_FD6VZKK6xGYifMZC/6Hiqg) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Charles Brown <cbro= wn@flyingcircuit.com>
Date: April 4, 2009 12:10:42= PM EDT
Cc: Charle= s Brown <cbrown@flying= circuit.com>
Subject: FW: our economy explained= !

<= /div>

=
There is also a members-only "casino= room" at the back of Heidi's bar where betting between and among the= players takes place 24x7.  The betting is on the various featur= es of the AAA-DRINKBONDS;  interest rate, creditworthiness, term= , anything that can be bet on.  It isn't like "insurance" at all= , as the MSM stooges tell us.  It is one-on-one gambling, by and= among the members of the casino room.  Here's how it works.

One party might bet on the c= reditworthiness, interest rate, or even the color of DRINKBOND, = as being fairly-valued, increasing or decreasing in value, etc.  = ;It didn't matter if a "counter-party" to a bet owned the DRINKB= OND, he/she could still bet with anyone who would take the other side= of the bet on any of DRINKBONDS features and terms.  If a 3rd p= arty purchased the bond, the casino would sell them a CDS contract to= cover their downside risk;   the 3rd party would buy a CDS cont= ract DIRECTLY from member of the casino, like AIG, Goldman-Sachs, Mor= gan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Lehman, et al.  The players in the c= asino might issue  these CDS's, "counterparty obligations", to e= ach other or 3rd-party investors on this basis.  The might even = resell them and hedge them several times, thus increasing the overall= betting on that single DRINKBOND.   The casino member= s could bet on nothing more than the fluctuating value of the interes= t rate on the bond.  They were making fortunes, and marketing th= e game worldwide.  Year after year hundreds of billions in bonus= es, "profits", and other compensation flowed to Wally and his friends= .

Heidi and the other bar pat= rons were just "feeders" for these transactions.  The casino roo= m had a separate entrance and exit and never mingled with Heidi's reg= ular patrons.   But the underlying securities that were created = at Heidi's, and were later packaged and sold by the casino members, a= re the very same "counterparties" you hear about - the investment ban= ks, who are now, most conveniently, commercial banks.  How did f= ormer investment banks like Goldman-Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan St= anley become commercial banks?  Was it convenient for them to av= ail themselves of new rules and government largesse?  And do it = over one weekend - a Saturday and Sunday and were commercial banks on= Monday?  Answer:  A corrupt Treasury Dept. and Congress.

=
Wally has managed to master= fully spin the MSM.  Most of the salient information is coming f= rom blogs and other sources, not the MSM.  Why?  Because Wa= lly and the MSM are partners too.  The same is certainly true of= our fearless leaders.  Another brief example is Rahm Emanuel. &= nbsp;He used to be the "bag man" for Congress over at Freddie Mac, wh= ere  he served on the Board of Directors.  He brought truck= -loads of cash to the Dems congressional political campaigns, courtes= y of Freddie - a corrupt nexus tool.  Repub or Dem, doesn't matt= er.

Let's review:  Wa= lly + Congress =3D corrupt nexus.  The MSM as a corps of dumb-wa= iters doing the bidding of the corrupt nexus.  The nexus serves-= up the menu for consumption as instructed, more or less, the MSM serv= es it to you and I through Wally-controlled distribution channels. &n= bsp;There are only a few exceptions left in the 4th estate, who have = abandoned any pretense of performing under their constitutional imper= ative.  This may help to explain how it is that we find ourselve= s in this bizarre, public dialogue.

We are picking-up the tab for the toxic securities issued via = Heidi's and the bets made in the casino room.  What remains a fa= ntastic fact is that we still don't know how much it is!  Wally = and Congress don't want us to know and are pulling out all of the sto= ps to prevent that from happening, and to keep the casino open.  = ;Wally, Geithner, Summers, MSM, all tell us that there are just probl= ems of perception regarding the value of these instruments;  and= yes, we also have "serious problems."  That the market has just= overreacted in the spiral of downward pricing and liquidity on these= instruments.  In fact, we have massive fraud (wealth transfer) = and criminality in our commerce and government.  <= /div>

I stand in awe of Wally's spin-machine = and power to control Congress and the media.  I never underestim= ate Wally in this regard, but this is surreal.  Over one year la= ter we have thousands of Wally's and hundreds of Congressman and Sena= tors framing the debate over "entitlements" of all sorts, still in th= eir positions, still practicing obfuscation, and still operating the = casino, when justice demands nothing less for them than a permanent r= esidence in a cell at Leavenworth and closing the casino, forever.

C= harlie



Begin for= warded message:

From: "George Margolin" <inventor@rentaninventor.com>
D= ate: April 1, 2009 3:26:52 PM EDT
To: "'David Farber'" <dave@farber.net>
Subject: FW: o= ur economy explained!
Reply-To: <inventor@pobox.com>


Dave =96 I have NEVER s= ent a broadcast email before. But THIS one is 
clever, and sa= dly =96 probably accurate in explaining our financial 
meltdo= wn.

And having been born in Detroit =96 and having worked my w= ay through 
college in many of the auto plants =96 it has = =91AHAA!=94 =96 written all 
over it.

IF you haven= =92t seen it I thought you=92d enjoy it and do with it what 
= you will.

Best regards from an appreciative recipient of your = list.

Regards,
George Margolin
inventor@pobox.com=


Subject: our economy explained!

=7F
It all make= s sense now,

Subject: Derivative markets, an understandable ex= planation

Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Detroit . In ord= er to increase
sales, she decides to allow her loyal customers - m= ost of whom are
unemployed alcoholics - to drink now but pay later= . She keeps track of
the drinks consumed on a ledger (thereby gran= ting the customers loans).

Word gets around about Heidi's drin= k now pay later marketing strategy
and as a result, increasing num= bers of customers flood into Heidi's bar

and soon she has the = largest sale volume for any bar in Detroit .

By providing her = customers' freedom from immediate payment demands,
Heidi gets no r= esistance when she substantially increases her prices
for wine and= beer, the most consumed beverages. Her sales volume
increases mas= sively.

A young and dynamic vice-president at the local bank r= ecognizes these
customer debts as valuable future assets and incre= ases Heidi's
borrowing limit. He sees no reason for undue concern = since he has the
debts of the alcoholics as collateral. At the ban= k's corporate
headquarters, expert traders transform these custome= r loans into
DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS.

These sec= urities are then traded on security markets worldwide. Naive
inves= tors don't really understand the securities being sold to them as
= AAA secured bonds are really the debts of unemployed alcoholics.
N= evertheless, their prices continuously climb, and the securities
b= ecome the top-selling items for some of the nation's leading brokerag= e
houses.

One day, although the bond prices are still climb= ing, a risk manager at
the bank (subsequently fired due his negati= vity), decides that the time
has come to demand payment on the deb= ts incurred by the drinkers at
Heidi's. Heidi demands payment from= her alcoholic patrons, but being
unemployed they cannot pay back = their drinking debts. Therefore, Heidi
cannot fulfill her loan obl= igations and claims bankruptcy.

DRINKBOND and ALKIBOND drop in= price by 90 %. PUKEBOND performs better,
stabilizing in price aft= er dropping by 80 %. The decreased bond asset
value destroys the b= anks liquidity and prevents it from issuing new
loans.

The = suppliers of Heidi's bar, having granted her generous payment
exte= nsions and having invested in the securities are faced with writingoff her debt and losing over 80% on her bonds. Her wine supplier cl= aims
bankruptcy, her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor, = who
immediately closes the local plant and lays off 50 workers.
The bank and brokerage houses are saved by the Government follow= ing
dramatic round-the-clock negotiations by leaders from both pol= itical
parties. The funds required for this bailout are obtained b= y a tax
levied on employed middle-class non-drinkers.

Final= ly an explanation I understand .....

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_FD6VZKK6xGYifMZC/6Hiqg)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Apr 5 09:35:34 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHM00K01R36TS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHM00K01R33TI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHM00D01NYCTP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHM00CCVNYCTJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F022759 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF46775 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC0F772 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35CCNwx014918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:12:23 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: The Scariest Monster of All Sues for Trademark Infringement To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 07CAEA66-21DB-11DE-BDA7-F752E488361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49D87DC2.3050809@higgs.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Simon Higgs Date: April 5, 2009 5:45:38 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: don@drakeconsulting.com Subject: Re: [IP] The Scariest Monster of All Sues for Trademark Infringement Reply-To: simon@higgs.com Monster are certainly in litigious mode, but seem to be picking on the weakest victims simply to save face after striking out against fellow A/V cable suppliers Blue Jeans Cable: Monster Cable recently (March 28, 2008) wrote to us claiming that we had infringed various design patents and trademarks owned by it or by its intellectual property holding company in Bermuda, Monster Cable International, Ltd. We reviewed the patent and trademark filings submitted by Monster Cable, and found that Monster's claims were completely frivolous--so frivolous, in fact, that there was something amusingly appropriate about the fact that Monster's letter had arrived in our mailbox on April Fools Day. We wrote back to Monster's counsel on April 14, 2008, to demand that if Monster wishes to convince us that we have infringed its intellectual property, it at least take the trouble to identify the correct patents and trademark registrations on which it relies, and explain its position in a way that identifies some plausible, nonfrivolous claim. Along the way, we also let Monster know that we have no intention of being bullied by anyone, no matter the size. To our surprise and delight, our long and (to our eyes) boring six-page letter became the focus of a great deal of positive attention from our customers, the online audio/video community, and others concerned with the abuse of the intellectual property laws. As of this writing, there has not been a further peep from Monster Cable. If this is the end of the matter, well--good riddance, Monster. If it is not, we will be sure to update this page from time to time to give our customers and others interested the blow-by-blow account of any ongoing conflict with Monster Cable. Correspondence is here: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/index.htm ### -- Best Regards, Simon Higgs -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Apr 5 09:35:35 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHM00K01R36TS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHM00K01R33TI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHM00E01OANHW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHM00CIJOANTJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A6E1F3FD for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8771A3AB47 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CF8B68 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B56765 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35CCNx0014918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:13:02 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 2D953EEA-21DB-11DE-B8F2-AA13E66C79D6 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: DV Henkel-Wallace Date: April 5, 2009 1:04:49 AM EDT To: David Farber , Steve Lamont Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info I have HIPPA training (though there are varying levels of "trained" and mine is at the bottom, or simplest). Although the heartland institute's prognosis was over the top it was not as far off the likely mark as one might like to think. First of all it does seem like most people I was exposed to were pretty serious about the privacy issue. But the fines, as noted, aren't really large by prosecutorial standards and there are prohibited behaviors which have no punishment at all. I.e. don't do this but if caught don't worry about it. Examples appeared on the IP list when HIPPA was first proposed. Second of all we've all seen the kind of database scope creep that comes with systems not designed with privacy in from the get go. Cell tower and toll data is now routinely used in criminal and civil cases. CC records too. Why not health data? You can be sure it will happen. And the risk of catastrophic (to the victims) loss due to data being hoisted by a malicious group of employees is high but largely ignored in system design and in legislation. In short: _don't_ turn the page in this case. (however I agree with your attitude to the H.I. in most cases). -d > From: Steve Lamont > Date: April 4, 2009 9:47:06 AM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: Re: [IP] Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info > >> April 2, 2009 (Network World) Maureen Martin of The Heartland >> Institute, a think tank promoting public policy based on individual >> liberty, limited government and free markets, argues that the new >> Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health >> (HITECH) >> Act exposes too much personal information. > > Heartland Institute is also very much in the forefront of the climate > change (aka global warming) denial movement, and is funded by numerous > extremely conservative foundations, such as the Scaife Foundations, > which also funded the highly corrosive "Arkansas Project" durning the > Clinton administration, the John M Olin Foundation, and Walton Family > Foundation. It was funded by ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2005, > according to Source Watch. > > http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute > > When Heartland speaks, I generally turn the page. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Apr 5 09:35:36 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHM00K01R36TS@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHM00K01R33TI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHM00E01OD7KL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHM00CJUOD7TJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7083A1F765 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FDB3AEAF for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CD21C0A9 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F511C0A4 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35CEvAe007820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:14:57 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] 4G Wireless WiMAX Coming to Silicon Valley....Finally To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <33EAA813-D4F9-43E2-A8C3-7A28DBDFA9AD@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 633EDD1C-21DB-11DE-A223-0D2B5C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <46012765-B35E-419D-994B-CF4921FE1458@warpspeed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: April 3, 2009 10:03:42 PM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] 4G Wireless WiMAX Coming to Silicon =20 Valley....Finally 4G Wireless WiMAX Coming to Silicon Valley=85.Finally Om Malik Thursday, April 2, 2009=09| 10:04 AM PT WiMAX, at least in Silicon Valley, is like the proverbial Loch Ness = =20 Monster =97 it=92s out there somewhere. We=92ve heard about it, we= =92ve talked =20 about it, but we=92ve never actually used it. Meanwhile the rest of t= he =20 planet, especially the emerging markets, are already happily dabbling= =20 with WiMAX. Well, that changes today. Clearwire has announced a new = =20 initiative called the WiMAX Innovation Network that will bring 4G = =20 wireless services to the Silicon Valley campuses of companies =20 including Google and Intel using core Internet Protocol Next-=20 Generation Network (IP NGN) infrastructure equipment from Cisco. [snip]RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Apr 5 18:42:24 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEHR6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEDQZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN009016EX4D@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN001EH6EWHM@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 118D1FEE for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881731CDA8 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8407D1CD9B for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:06:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35J6hU8000613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:06:41 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Anybody in the Boston area tomorrow? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <47272FB5-F96F-4204-9E3E-631C9E25A128@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_sd0tO4EgoyZguDgR7lkdPA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: EA320720-2214-11DE-A48F-A8345C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_sd0tO4EgoyZguDgR7lkdPA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Randall Webmail Date: April 5, 2009 3:02:33 PM EDT To: johnmacsgroup@yahoogroups.com, dewayne@warpspeed.com Cc: dave@farber.net Subject: Anybody in the Boston area tomorrow? Tomorrow Engin Ipek of Microsoft is going to give a talk at MIT on "self-optimizing, adaptive hardware controllers capable of planning, learning, and continuously adapting to changing workload demands". (The announcement for Ipek's talk is here: http://events.mit.edu/event.html?id=10548663&date=2009/04/06. More is on his website: http://research.microsoft.com/en- us/people/ipek/. ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_sd0tO4EgoyZguDgR7lkdPA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Randall Webmail <rvh40@i= nsightbb.com>
Date: April 5, 2009 3:02:33 PM EDT<= /font>
Subject: Anybody in the= Boston area tomorrow?

Tomorrow Engin Ipek of Microsoft is going t= o
give a talk at MIT on "self-optimizing, adaptive hardware contro= llers
capable of planning, learning, and continuously adapting to = changing
workload demands".  (The announcement for Ipek's tal= k is here:
http://events.mit.edu/event.html?id=3D10548= 663&date=3D2009/04/06. More is on
his website: http://research.microsoft.com/= en- us/people/ipek/.

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_sd0tO4EgoyZguDgR7lkdPA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Apr 5 18:42:25 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEHR6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEDQZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN009016HMDW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN000L46HMT8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C89458D4 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF7420D8A for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C30620D85 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35J6hU9000613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:07:06 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Can You Believe That Online Map Data? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <8126747F-7759-4C5B-AEDD-7EEDB114F5FB@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: F6CA8584-2214-11DE-B415-FB3F5660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090405163331.GA20606@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: April 5, 2009 12:33:31 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Can You Believe That Online Map Data? Can You Believe That Online Map Data? http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000535.html Greetings. There's an excellent piece in the L.A. Times today discussing how geocoding errors can result not only in clusters of inaccurate data being displayed within online maps, but also in the spread of that bad data to other databases and systems. Of course, all manner of critical factors and decisions concerning services, privacy, and so much else can end up being based on such data: http://latimes.com/news/local/la-me-geocoding-errors5-2009apr05,0,5966285.story This "garbage in, garbage out" truth should be obvious, but we all too often tend to look at colorful online maps and just assume that they're accurate. Yet the underlying assumptions of the mapping system designers play a major role in the results when geocoded data in particular is in error or cannot be interpreted properly. A map, like a picture, may be worth "a thousand words" -- but that doesn't necessarily mean that those words are always a reflection of reality. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com Twitter: LW1 -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Apr 5 18:42:26 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEHR6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEDQZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN009016O8VR@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN000OM6O8T8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9024B1F06D for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8218A71893 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B26D1CDE9 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84BAC1CDDB for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35J6hUA000613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:07:37 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] DPI research project To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3BF26E00-07F9-4570-952F-D789329310D6@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_86P7WDEtphGBKdnQ+ijobw)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 092ADC7E-2215-11DE-8997-C6365C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <886634AE7B5778459859970BDDCA3BCE06B2695E@EX-OPC-V2.ad.privcom.gc.ca> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_86P7WDEtphGBKdnQ+ijobw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: "Colin McKay" Date: April 5, 2009 11:12:34 AM EDT To: Subject: DPI research project Professor Farber: As you may remember, late last summer I contacted you to ask if you had the time and inclination to prepare a short essay on the subject of deep packet inspection, preferably with some connection to the interplay between privacy, data protection and modern network technologies. I contacted approximately thirty other experts, and a total of sixteen had the opportunity to submit an essay. Far too many months later, the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada has published this collection online. You can find it at: http://dpi.priv.gc.ca The french version can be found at: http://iap.priv.gc.ca Links have been built into the site (on the right) to point readers to other sources, like Dr. Reed's testimony last summer. You'll note that this site is different from most government research projects: it presents an opportunity for readers to comment, excerpt and even vote on essays that interest or frustrate them. I also have to note that there are some final issues to resolve in terms of urls and crosslinks between the english and french versions. These will be resolved by tomorrow. We are also in the final stages of preparing a print version of these essays: we expect to have this finished by the end of April. Colin McKay Director of Research, Education and Outreach Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada cmckay@privcom.gc.ca office: 613.947.726 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_86P7WDEtphGBKdnQ+ijobw) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Colin McKay" <CMCKAY@p= rivcom.gc.ca>
Date: April 5, 2009 11:12:34 AM EDT=
Subject: DPI research project

Professor F= arber:

As you may remember, late last summer I contacted you= to ask if you had the time and inclination to prepare a short essay = on the subject of deep packet inspection, preferably with some connec= tion to the interplay between privacy, data protection and modern net= work technologies.

I contacted approximately thirty other ex= perts, and a total of sixteen had the opportunity to submit an essay.=

Far too many months later, the Office of the Privacy Commis= sioner of Canada has published this collection online. You can find i= t at:

http://dpi.priv.gc.c= a

The french version can be found at:

http://iap.priv.gc.ca

Links h= ave been built into the site (on the right) to point readers to other= sources, like Dr. Reed's testimony last summer.

You'll note= that this site is different from most government research projects: = it presents an opportunity for readers to comment, excerpt and even v= ote on essays that interest or frustrate them.

I also have t= o note that there are some final issues to resolve in terms of urls a= nd crosslinks between the english and french versions. These will be = resolved by tomorrow.

We are also in the final stages of pre= paring a print version of these essays: we expect to have this finish= ed by the end of April.


Colin McKay
Director of Res= earch, Education and Outreach
Office of the Privacy Commissioner = of Canada
cmckay@privcom.= gc.ca
office: 613.947.726


Archives
--Boundary_(ID_86P7WDEtphGBKdnQ+ijobw)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Apr 5 18:42:27 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEHR6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEDQZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00M01CNFY8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN00M22CNFOZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA6330 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F882DF3 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 480A2DF2 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35LKZ8w003854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:20:34 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Skype's iPhone App: Open-Internet Advocacy Group asks FCC to Investigate Restriction Imposed on VOiP Calls over 3G - iPhone Hacks To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ixYZZuuzGycbpmHmdglp/w)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 9CE96040-2227-11DE-B011-98F2E388361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_ixYZZuuzGycbpmHmdglp/w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE If this is indeed what Open-net said to the FCC, they are not =20 presenting the best case. I have no love for Apple/AT&T iPhone's = =20 behavior . djf http://www.iphonehacks.com/2009/04/skypes-iphone-app-openinternet-adv= ocacy-group-asks-fcc-to-investigate-restriction-imposed-on-voip-ca.ht= ml#more Skype's iPhone App: Open-Internet Advocacy Group asks FCC to =20 Investigate Restriction Imposed on VOiP Calls over 3G Skype's iPhone app which was released last week is probably the best = =20 VOiP app I have used. However, the problem with it (if you haven't = =20 jailbroken your iPhone) is that like other VOiP iPhone apps, you can = =20 only use it to make calls over Wi-Fi due to limitation of iPhone's SD= K. Free Press, an open-internet advocacy group has asked Federal =20 Communications Commission (FCC) to investigate whether Apple and AT&T= =20 are violating federal rules by limiting use of Skype's iPhone apponly= =20 over Wi-Fi. Skype's iPhoneapp has been extremely popular on the App Store.Skype = =20 announcedon their blog that Skype for iPhone was download more than = =20 one million times from the App Store in just two days. However, due to limitations of iPhone's SDK it's not possible to make= =20 VOiP callsover a data network. Free Press, the open-internet advocacy group that has a history of = =20 attacking efforts by cable and wireless by cable and wireless =20 companies to prevent customers from using bandwidth-hogging services = =20 like file-sharing etc has asked Federal Communications Commission to = =20 investigate whether Apple and AT&T are violating federal rules by = =20 limiting use of Skype's iPhone app only over Wi-Fi. Chris Riley, policy counsel for Press Press stated: "Wireless broadband networks cannot become a safe haven for =20 discrimination" "The Internet in your pocket should be just as free and open as =20 theInternet in your home. The FCC must make it crystal clear that a = =20 closed Internet will not be tolerated on any platform." Skype has welcomed the move. Christopher Libertelli, Senior Director = =20 of Government and Regulatory affairs for Skype had this to say: "Consumers should be entitled to use the products they pay for as the= y =20 see fit, so long as they do not harm the network" Apple declined to comment while AT&T spokesperson said they don't = =20 block Skype: "Customers are free to download and use the apps they want, but we = =20 have no obligation=97nor should we have=97to facilitate or subsidize = our =20 competitors' businesses" The restriction to make VOiP calls only over Wi-Fi isn't only limited= =20 to U.S. It was reported that Deutsche Telekom, Apple's carrier partne= r =20 in Germany and some European countries might prevent its T-Mobile = =20 iPhone customers from using Skype's iPhone app even on their Wi-Fi = =20 networks. Currently the only way to make VOiP calls over data networks is to = =20 installVOiPover3G app on a jailbroken iPhone, but the solution is onl= y =20 available tousers who are technically inclined to hack their iPhone. It will be interesting to see what's the outcome of FCC's =20 investigation. WSJ believes: "With a Democratic administration in charge at the FCC, the views of = =20 open-network advocates could get a more sympathetic hearing. Presiden= t =20 Obama announced his support for net neutrality, or the idea that all = =20 Internet traffic should be treated equally, during the campaign. The = =20 president's choice for FCC chairman, Julius Genachowski, is also a ne= t =20 neutrality supporter." As always, please let us know what you think in the comments section = =20 below. [WSJ via AppleInsider] ShareThis Be the first to rate this [?] You might like: =09=95 AT&T Upgrading Network for Apple's New iPhone? - iPhone Hacks 2 more recommended posts =BB Posted by iPhoneHacks on April 5, 2009 in iPhone News, iPhone 3G News= |=20 Permalink Technorati Tags: App Store, Apple, FCC, Free Press, iPhone, iPhone = =20 Apps,iPhone News, Skpe for iPhone, Skype, Skype Comments ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_ixYZZuuzGycbpmHmdglp/w) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
If this is indeed what Open-net said to the FCC, they a= re not presenting the best case. I have no love for Apple/AT&T iP= hone's  behavior . djf 

=

http://www.iphoneha= cks.com/2009/04/skypes-iphone-app-openinternet-advocacy-group-asks-fc= c-to-investigate-restriction-imposed-on-voip-ca.html#more


Skype's iPhone App: Open-Internet Advocacy Group asks FCC to Investi= gate Restriction Imposed on VOiP Calls over 3G

Skype's iPhone app which was released last week = is probably the best VOiP app I have used. However, the pro= blem with it (if you haven't jailbroken your iPhone) is that lik= e other VOiP iPhone apps, you can only use it to make calls over= Wi-Fi due to limitation of iPhone's SDK.

= Free Press, an open-internet advocacy group has asked Federal Co= mmunications Commission (FCC) to investigate whether Apple and A= T&T are violating federal rules by limiting use of Skype's i= Phone apponly over Wi-Fi.

Skype's iPhoneapp has been extremely popular on the App Store.S= kype announcedon their blog that Skype for iPhone was downl= oad more than one million times from the App Store in just two days.<= /p>

However, due to limitations of iPhone's SDK it's not= possible to make VOiP callsover a data network.

Free Press, the open-internet advocacy group that has a h= istory of attacking efforts by cable and wireless by cable = and wireless companies to prevent customers from using bandwidth-hogg= ing services like file-sharing etc has asked Federal Communications C= ommission to investigate whether Apple and AT&T are violating fed= eral rules by limiting use of Skype's iPhone app only over Wi-Fi.

=

Chris Riley, policy counsel for Press Press stated:

=
"Wireless broadband networks cannot become a safe= haven for discrimination"

"The Internet in your pocket should= be just as free and open as theInternet in your home. The FCC m= ust make it crystal clear that a closed Internet will not be tolerate= d on any platform."

Skype has welcomed the mov= e. Christopher Libertelli, Senior Director of Government and Regulato= ry affairs for Skype had this to say:

"Consumers should be en= titled to use the products they pay for as they see fit, so long as t= hey do not harm the network"

Apple declined to= comment while AT&T spokesperson said they don't block Skype:

=
"Customers are free to download and use the = apps they want, but we have no obligation=97nor should we have=97to f= acilitate or subsidize our competitors' businesses"

The restriction to make VOiP calls only over Wi-Fi isn't only l= imited to U.S. It was reported that Deutsche Telekom, Apple's carrier= partner in Germany and some European countries might prevent its T-M= obile iPhone customers from using Skype's iPhone app even on their Wi= -Fi networks.

Currently the only way to make VOiP ca= lls over data networks is to installVOiPover3G ap= p on a jailbroken iPhone, but the solution is only available tousers&= nbsp;who are technically inclined to hack their iPhone.

It will be interesting to see what's the outcome of FCC's inves= tigation. WSJ believes:

"With a Democratic administration in = charge at the FCC, the views of open-network advocates could get a mo= re sympathetic hearing. President Obama announced his support&nb= sp;for net neutrality, or the idea that all Internet traffi= c should be treated equally, during the campaign. The president'= s choice for FCC chairman, Julius Genachowski, is also a net neutrali= ty supporter."

As always, please let us kn= ow what you think in the comments section below.

[WS= J via AppleInsider]

ShareThis

=
 
 
=  
 
 
Be the first to rate this [?]
= You might like:
=09=95 AT&T Upgrading Network for Apple's New i= Phone? - iPhone Hacks
2 more recommended posts =BB
=

Posted by iPhoneHacks on April 5= , 2009 in iPhone News, iPhone 3G News |Permalink

Technorati Tags: App Store, Apple, FCC, Fr= ee Press, iPhone, iPhone Apps,iPhone News, Skpe for iP= hone, Skype, Skype

Comments

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--Boundary_(ID_ixYZZuuzGycbpmHmdglp/w)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Apr 5 18:42:28 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEHR6@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00601GEDQZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00301ENUAY@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN00OIUENUVF@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB186FF5 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A0B15CA5 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D7F20F9E for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:01:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F231E20F97 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35M1mmR025168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:01:48 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Now why didn't I think of that? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <61E9E8E6-F45F-4C31-A2D3-0E1A61A2D6DC@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 5EF8DEB8-222D-11DE-9C93-F72D5660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <42DC4BF3-14ED-46E4-9542-07425B1C50D2@warpspeed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: April 3, 2009 10:52:08 PM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Now why didn't I think of that? [Note: This item comes from reader Randall. DLH] From: Randall Webmail Date: April 3, 2009 3:54:42 PM PDT To: johnmacsgroup@yahoogroups.com, dewayne@warpspeed.com Subject: Now why didn't I think of that? Computer Program Self-Discovers Laws of Physics By Brandon Keim EmailApril 02, 2009 | 5:09:59 PMCategories: Artificial Intelligence, Science Tools, Systems Biology, Web/Tech In just over a day, a powerful computer program accomplished a feat that took physicists centuries to complete: extrapolating the laws of motion from a pendulum's swings. Developed by Cornell researchers, the program deduced the natural laws without a shred of knowledge about physics or geometry. The research is being heralded as a potential breakthrough for science in the Petabyte Age, where computers try to find regularities in massive datasets that are too big and complex for the human mind. (See Wired magazine's July 2008 cover story on "The End of Science.") "One of the biggest problems in science today is moving forward and finding the underlying principles in areas where there is lots and lots of data, but there's a theoretical gap. We don't know how things work," said Hod Lipson, the Cornell University computational researcher who co-wrote the program. "I think this is going to be an important tool." [snip] RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Apr 6 00:07:21 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG5QT@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG0QL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00701GN78B@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN002EKGN70P@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7BFC6390 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7F3E2183E for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98F9C36E for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by apex.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05116C for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35MegG4025525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:40:42 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Skype's iPhone App: Open-Internet Advocacy Group asks FCC to Investigate Restriction Imposed on VOiP Calls over 3G - iPhone Hacks To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: E3F0C194-2232-11DE-8C9C-AEBED2519B2A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <8AAC46A0-6CBA-4BB3-808F-62198D28BC01@jeffporten.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Jeff Porten Date: April 5, 2009 5:59:02 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Skype's iPhone App: Open-Internet Advocacy Group asks FCC to Investigate Restriction Imposed on VOiP Calls over 3G - iPhone Hacks My understanding is that the 3G limitation for Skype calls is lifted in the 3.0 iPhone OS X release that's slated in a few months. Like data tethering over Bluetooth, which is also in the 3.0 release, this will be subject to the terms of services of each carrier. I've been amused to watch the business press completely miss the point of AT&T's motivations here -- everyone is focusing on how "livid" AT&T must be that the onus has been placed on them to allow this to occur. But if you want any unlimited data plan, you're starting at the not particularly cheap contract of $60 per month -- and AT&T has the capacity to charge extra for services like tethering, as they currently do with other handheld devices with a $40-$60 monthly surcharge. I don't see how the FCC has the authority to rule that AT&T must provide unlimited Skype service for free. Meanwhile, as an early adopter of Google Voice in conjunction with a free Gizmo account, I already have effectively unlimited free service outgoing within the United States, which I can use simultaneously with any cell phone when I'm away from my laptop. That allows me to use an arbitrarily cheap cell phone service; I'm writing up a chapter for a recession-busting self-employment book which describes how a power user can drop their cell phone bills to $10-$20 per month, using a $10 prepaid handset. If AT&T is reading the same writing on the wall, they're likely to be chortling with glee that Skype will drive iPhone users to stay with far more expensive monthly plans in two-year contracts. Minute overages are only one of many ways they can keep their bottom lines flush. Best, Jeff Porten -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Apr 6 00:07:22 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG5QT@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG0QL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00701GOZB0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN001Q5GOZ7B@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8329A6782 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5A122183 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C66D2071B for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C2E720705 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35MegG5025525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:41:02 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Can You Believe That Online Map Data? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_yoOUahRpUPmXql2R927OXg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: E04014A0-2232-11DE-BE1F-AD1D5660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_yoOUahRpUPmXql2R927OXg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Raymcfarld@aol.com Date: April 5, 2009 3:32:31 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Can You Believe That Online Map Data? For IP if you wish. I know that manufacturers of paper maps put purposeful small errors in their maps as their way to prove copyright infringement if someone were to directly copy and sell them. I don't know if that practice has carried over to the on-line world. Ray ************** Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001 ) ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_yoOUahRpUPmXql2R927OXg) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

Date= : April 5, 2009 3:32:31 PM EDT
Subject: = = Re: [IP] Can You Believe That Online Map Data?

For IP if you wish.

I know that manufactur= ers of paper maps put purposeful small errors in their maps as their = way to prove copyright infringement if someone were to directly copy = and sell them. I don't know if that practice has carried over to the = on-line world.

Ray



******= ********
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for = $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=3Demlcntusf= ood00000001)

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_yoOUahRpUPmXql2R927OXg)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Apr 6 00:07:23 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG5QT@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG0QL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00701GTCFC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN002GQGTC0P@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCD641F4A1 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA1775B62 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 377BB206AD for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:38:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80102069D for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35Mc0kW025480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:38:00 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Can You Believe That Online Map Data? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_aSmoc/vCTeEi6qbEQj+N7g)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 7096A7F4-2232-11DE-A7E1-1A1A5660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <7.0.1.0.2.20090405140536.02a13e88@unidot.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_aSmoc/vCTeEi6qbEQj+N7g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Milt Terry was one of the first people I had serious interaction with when I arrived at Bell Labs in 1956. Milt was one of the pioneers of applied statistics. He was the one that taught me a lot about the field. In particular something he said always stayed with me throughout my career. That was, don't believe any simulation that you don't have a real system to test it against and see if it's simulating what you think your simulating. Dave Begin forwarded message: From: "Robert M. McClure" Date: April 5, 2009 5:12:34 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Can You Believe That Online Map Data? This is actually a very old story. Many (40+) years ago, I attended a lecture at Bell Labs given by Milt Terry on the subject of preparing data for the FCC for the first WATS service. Bell asked for and received permission to put recorders on the lines of a number of large companies just to record the numbers dialed. They then analyzed them to look at the statistics of the distances called, time on line, etc. They were surprised to discover that of the so-called "toll" calls (long distance), a non-trivial fraction were for zero distance. Examination of the data revealed that whoever geocoded the location of the numbers called, when they could not locate the callee geographically, would arbitrarily assign the location of the capitol of the state. When the caller was also in the capitol this resulted in a zero distance call. This resulted in, as you can imagine, a lot of additional man hours of work in correcting the data. Bob McClure rmm@unidot.com At 12:07 PM 4/5/2009, you wrote: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Lauren Weinstein > Date: April 5, 2009 12:33:31 PM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: Can You Believe That Online Map Data? > > > Can You Believe That Online Map Data? > > http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000535.html > > > Greetings. There's an excellent piece in the L.A. Times today > discussing how geocoding errors can result not only in clusters of > inaccurate data being displayed within online maps, but also in the > spread of that bad data to other databases and systems. Of course, > all manner of critical factors and decisions concerning services, > privacy, and so much else can end up being based on such data: > > http://latimes.com/news/local/la-me-geocoding-errors5-2009apr05,0,5966285.story > > This "garbage in, garbage out" truth should be obvious, but we all too > often tend to look at colorful online maps and just assume that > they're accurate. Yet the underlying assumptions of the mapping > system designers play a major role in the results when geocoded data > in particular is in error or cannot be interpreted properly. > > A map, like a picture, may be worth "a thousand words" -- but that > doesn't necessarily mean that those words are always a reflection of > reality. > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein > lauren@vortex.com > Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 > http://www.pfir.org/lauren > Co-Founder, PFIR > - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org > Co-Founder, NNSquad > - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org > Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition > for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org > Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com > Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy > Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com > Twitter: LW1 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_aSmoc/vCTeEi6qbEQj+N7g) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Milt Terry was one of the f= irst people I had serious interaction with when I arrived at Bell Lab= s in 1956. Milt was one of the pioneers of applied statistics. He was= the one that taught me a lot about the field. In particular somethin= g he said always stayed with me throughout my career. That was, don't= believe any simulation that you don't have a real system to test it = against and see if it's simulating what you think your simulating.
Dave

Begin forwarded message:
=
From: "Robert M. McClure= " <rmm@unidot.com>=
Date= : April 5, 2009 5:12:34 PM EDT
Subject: = = Re: [IP] Can You Believe That Online Map Data?

This is actually a very old story.  Many (40+) years ago,= I attended a lecture at Bell Labs
given by Milt Terry on the sub= ject of preparing data for the FCC for the first WATS service.
Be= ll asked for and received permission to put recorders on the lines of= a number of large
companies just to record the numbers dialed.&n= bsp; They then analyzed them to look at the
statistics of the dis= tances called, time on line, etc.  They were surprised to discov= er that
of the so-called "toll" calls (long distance), a non-triv= ial fraction were for zero distance.

Examination of the data = revealed that whoever geocoded the location of the numbers
called= , when they could not locate the callee geographically, would arbitra= rily assign the
location of the capitol of the state.  When = the caller was also in the capitol this resulted
in a zero distan= ce call.  This resulted in, as you can imagine, a lot of additio= nal man hours
of work in correcting the data.

Bob McClure=
rmm@unidot.com

At = 12:07 PM 4/5/2009, you wrote:


Begin forwarded m= essage:

From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@vortex.com>
Date: April 5, 2009 12:33:31= PM EDT
To: dave@farber.net
Subject: Can You Believe That Online Map Data?


&nb= sp;           =         Can You Believe That Onlin= e Map Data?

        &= nbsp;       http://lauren.vorte= x.com/archive/000535.html


Greetings.  There's a= n excellent piece in the L.A. Times today
discussing how geocodin= g errors can result not only in clusters of
inaccurate data being= displayed within online maps, but also in the
spread of that bad= data to other databases and systems.  Of course,
all manner= of critical factors and decisions concerning services,
privacy, = and so much else can end up being based on such data:

http://latimes.com/news/local/la-= me-geocoding-errors5-2009apr05,0,5966285.story

This "gar= bage in, garbage out" truth should be obvious, but we all too
oft= en tend to look at colorful online maps and just assume that
they= 're accurate.  Yet the underlying assumptions of the mapping
= system designers play a major role in the results when geocoded data=
in particular is in error or cannot be interpreted properly.
=
A map, like a picture, may be worth "a thousand words" -- but th= at
doesn't necessarily mean that those words are always a reflect= ion of
reality.

--Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@vortex.com
Tel: +1 (81= 8) 225-2800
http://www.pfir.org/lauren
Co-Founder, PFIR
  = - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org
Co-Founder, NNSqua= d
  - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org
Founder, = GCTIP - Global Coalition
  for Transparent Internet Performa= nce - http://www= .gctip.org
Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com
Member, = ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vo= rtex.com
Twitter: LW1





-------------= ------------------------------
Archives: https://www= tbox: http://= www.listbox.com


Archives
--Boundary_(ID_aSmoc/vCTeEi6qbEQj+N7g)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Apr 6 00:07:24 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG5QT@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG0QL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00801H474Z@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN002L6H47FI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043091F05B for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D8E76B7E for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B70472086C for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6441920817 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35Moil4004884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:50:44 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] News Alert: I.B.M. Withdraws Offer for Sun Microsystems To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <469A2618-4AA6-4204-85B8-60592AC21826@FARBER.NET> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 3B51F632-2234-11DE-89AE-C3325660EBC4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200904052222.n35MMVv03007@mustang.oldcity.dca.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "NYTimes.com News Alert" Date: April 5, 2009 6:19:44 PM EDT To: dave@FARBER.NET Subject: News Alert: I.B.M. Withdraws Offer for Sun Microsystems Reply-To: nytdirect@nytimes.com Breaking News Alert The New York Times Sunday, April 5, 2009 -- 6:15 PM ET ----- I.B.M. Withdraws Offer for Sun Microsystems I.B.M. has withdrawn its offer to buy Sun Microsystems because of a dispute over price, according to a person with knowledge of the talks. Read More: http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na ----- Now get the New York Times Breaking News to your mobile phone. Sign up for the alerts by texting NEWSALERTS to 698698 (NYTNYT). ----- About This E-Mail You received this message because you are signed up to receive Breaking News Alerts from NYTimes.com. To unsubscribe, change your e-mail address or to sign up for daily headlines or other newsletters, go to: http://www.nytimes.com/email NYTimes.com 620 Eighth Ave. New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Apr 6 00:07:25 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG5QT@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00901VG0QL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHN00801HGFQA@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHN0083GHGE80@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1CD96B74 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2990C12C98 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCC41B1 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5994E1AF for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n35MdKss004710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:39:20 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Now why didn't I think of that? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: Normal X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 9C13FE68-2232-11DE-AD84-613FE488361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <1465633898-1238970628-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1673211888-@bxe1029.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: jms@kinetic.seas.upenn.edu Date: April 5, 2009 6:30:29 PM EDT To: "Dave Farber" Subject: Re: [IP] Now why didn't I think of that? Reply-To: jms@kinetic.seas.upenn.edu So now physicists will be unemployed. Call me when computers can write error-free software... :-) -JMS -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Apr 6 07:33:36 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHO00001G3XUF@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHO00001G3UU4@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHO00C019W6NH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHO0099F9W6D8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 456847EC5 for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E57D212748 for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA9FA1CC4B for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F2C1CC45 for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n369Es4b003394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:14:50 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <99351957-DE08-4571-B9F1-354EB1788451@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 6B57F2DA-228B-11DE-8E4E-A6355C7A14D3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <3B2F1F8A-82AD-4E1B-9581-76AC2D4910D6@henkel-wallace.org> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: DV Henkel-Wallace Date: April 5, 2009 7:57:13 PM EDT To: Charles Pinneo Cc: Dave Farber Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info On the HLI, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. More generally I don't understand the rush to electronic health records, of all things. There are some serious technical and institutional problems to be addressed (I'm not talking about privacy or other t social issues) and until they have been I don't see the point and in fact consider the shift quite risky. -d On 5 Apr, 2009, at 15:22 , Charles Pinneo wrote: > DV, > > Did you look up the Heartland Institute? It's a hard right > organization. They don't even believe in evolution. Back to 1850 for > science. They support big tobacco. They are against taxes. Is that > enough for you? > > Charles Pinneo > pinneo@sbcglobal.net > On Apr 5, 2009, at 8:13 AM, David Farber wrote: > >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: DV Henkel-Wallace >> Date: April 5, 2009 1:04:49 AM EDT >> To: David Farber , Steve Lamont >> Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info >> >> I have HIPPA training (though there are varying levels of "trained" >> and mine is at the bottom, or simplest). Although the heartland >> institute's prognosis was over the top it was not as far off the >> likely mark as one might like to think. >> >> First of all it does seem like most people I was exposed to were >> pretty serious about the privacy issue. But the fines, as noted, >> aren't really large by prosecutorial standards and there are >> prohibited behaviors which have no punishment at all. I.e. don't >> do this but if caught don't worry about it. Examples appeared on >> the IP list when HIPPA was first proposed. >> >> Second of all we've all seen the kind of database scope creep that >> comes with systems not designed with privacy in from the get go. >> Cell tower and toll data is now routinely used in criminal and >> civil cases. CC records too. Why not health data? You can be >> sure it will happen. >> >> And the risk of catastrophic (to the victims) loss due to data >> being hoisted by a malicious group of employees is high but largely >> ignored in system design and in legislation. >> >> In short: _don't_ turn the page in this case. (however I agree >> with your attitude to the H.I. in most cases). >> >> -d >> >>> From: Steve Lamont >>> Date: April 4, 2009 9:47:06 AM EDT >>> To: dave@farber.net >>> Subject: Re: [IP] Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info >>> >>>> April 2, 2009 (Network World) Maureen Martin of The Heartland >>>> Institute, a think tank promoting public policy based on individual >>>> liberty, limited government and free markets, argues that the new >>>> Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health >>>> (HITECH) >>>> Act exposes too much personal information. >>> >>> Heartland Institute is also very much in the forefront of the >>> climate >>> change (aka global warming) denial movement, and is funded by >>> numerous >>> extremely conservative foundations, such as the Scaife Foundations, >>> which also funded the highly corrosive "Arkansas Project" durning >>> the >>> Clinton administration, the John M Olin Foundation, and Walton >>> Family >>> Foundation. It was funded by ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2005, >>> according to Source Watch. >>> >>> http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute >>> >>> When Heartland speaks, I generally turn the page. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Apr 6 14:53:25 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHP006010GY8S@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHP006010GV8B@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KHO00K01N9G93@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KHO00G96N9GW8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8027310 for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C97D21027FB for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D673C46B for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5B646A for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n36E4X1r018356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:04:33 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_gEE7Wx2JGKoq+ZGcZ+XMXg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: DDE524E4-22B3-11DE-95F6-AFE1E388361A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49DA02EF.9040407@reed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_gEE7Wx2JGKoq+ZGcZ+XMXg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: "David P. Reed" Date: April 6, 2009 9:26:07 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip , DV Henkel-Wallace Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Be afraid, be very afraid Health Info DV Henkel-Wallace wrote: > More generally I don't understa