From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 1 20:10:40 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTL7H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTH75@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ0060112V6F@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KIZ0052812VTL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B834F4 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA29EFB for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6278EFA for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n41FHR53009546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 11:17:27 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Mid Mile To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_cO6A7OnOVt/MtBKrwkIdVA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 305AD684-3663-11DE-BDF4-E78306095825 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_cO6A7OnOVt/MtBKrwkIdVA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Robert Atkinson Date: May 1, 2009 9:36:29 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: Mid Mile Dave, Today=92s Wall Street Journal carried an item on the broadband stimul= us =20 which included this bit of news: On Wednesday, National Economic Council member Susan Crawford told a = =20 telecom policy conference in Washington that =93investments in backha= ul =20 [or middle-mile] networks, particularly in rural communities, will = =20 likely be particularly helpful.=94 Ms. Crawford doesn=92t have any d= irect =20 control over stimulus funding, but she has been meeting regularly wit= h =20 Commerce Department officials in charge of handing out broadband = =20 stimulus dollars. My conclusion from moderating the NTIA-RUS roundtable meetings in DC = =20 in March was that the lack of low cost =93mid-mile=94 facilities is t= he =20 principal infrastructure bottleneck that is causing many rural =20 communities to be =93unserved=94 or =93underserved.=94 I know a numb= er of =20 commentators on IP have been making this same point. It is good to se= e =20 that the bottleneck problem is recognized because opening bottlenecks= =20 is one thing that governments are well-equipped to do, with either = =20 carrots or sticks. Now, the challenge is to get mid-mile builders in touch with those wh= o =20 would like to build last miles (WISPs for example) so that they can = =20 coordinate their efforts. Right now, last mile business cases aren= =92t =20 being developed because of the paucity of low cost mid-mile and the = =20 mid-milers aren=92t going to do speculative builds into =93unserved= =94 =20 territory so they need to find the last milers. They need a =93match= =20 maker.=94 Bob Robert C. Atkinson Director of Policy Research Columbia Institute for Tele-Information (CITI) http://www.citi.columbia.edu office: 212-854-7576 mobile: 908-447-4201 E-mail: rca53@columbia.edu alt: bob@robertcatkinson.com ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_cO6A7OnOVt/MtBKrwkIdVA) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Robert Atkinson <rca53@co= lumbia.edu>
Date: May 1, 2009 9:36:29 AM EDT
T= o: David Farber <dav= e@farber.net>
Subject: Mid Mile

Dave,

Today=92s Wall Street Journal carried an item on= the broadband stimulus which included this bit of news:

On Wednesday, National Economic Council member Susan= Crawford told a telecom policy conference in Washington that = =93investments in backhaul [or middle-mile] networks, particularly in= rural communities, will likely be particularly helpful.=94  Ms.= Crawford doesn=92t have any direct control over stimulus funding, bu= t she has been meeting regularly with Commerce Department officials i= n charge of handing out broadband stimulus dollars.

My conclusion from moderat= ing the NTIA-RUS roundtable meetings in DC in March was that the lack= of low cost =93mid-mile=94 facilities is the principal infrastructur= e bottleneck that is causing many rural communities to be =93unserved= =94 or =93underserved.=94  I know a number of commentators on IP= have been making this same point. It is good to see that the bottlen= eck problem is recognized because opening bottlenecks is one thing th= at governments are well-equipped to do, with either carrots or sticks= .

Now, the challenge is to get mid-mile builders in touch wi= th those who would like to build last miles (WISPs for example) so th= at they can coordinate their efforts.  Right now, last mile busi= ness cases aren=92t being developed because of the paucity of low cos= t mid-mile and the mid-milers aren=92t going to do speculative builds= into =93unserved=94 territory so they need to find the last milers. =  They need a =93match maker.=94

Bob
<= /font>
Robert C. Atkinson
Director of Policy Research
C= olumbia Institute for Tele-Information (CITI)
http://www.citi.columbia.edu

offic= e: 212-854-7576
mobile: 908-447-4201

E-mail: rca53@columbia.edu
alt: bob@robertcatkinson.com

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_cO6A7OnOVt/MtBKrwkIdVA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 1 20:10:41 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTL7H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTH75@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ0060113H8M@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KIZ0052T13HTL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFD1776E for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B098528CBF for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487FA28CBE for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n41FHR54009546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 11:17:57 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Justice Scalia's home phone # is changing To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <03E6EE9A-E445-4E6F-9E7F-49DB82EC1660@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 41EBA72A-3663-11DE-B402-BBFDD75EBCF0 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Paul Levy" Date: May 1, 2009 9:35:02 AM EDT To: Subject: Justice Scalia's home phone # is changing In order to make a point about how readily private information is available on the Internet, Professor Joel Reidenberg at Fordham assigned his class to collect as much information as they could about himself -- and then the following year, the subject of the assignment was Justice Antonin Scalia. The 15-page dossier on Justice Scalia was not posted publicly, but Justice Scalia is apparently very unhappy about the project. Professor Reidenberg's response: "Indeed, the very fact that Justice Scalia found it objectionable and felt compelled to comment underscores the value and legitimacy of the exercise." http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/fordham_law_class_collects_scalia_info_justice_is_steamed Paul Alan Levy Public Citizen Litigation Group 1600 - 20th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 588-1000 http://www.citizen.org/litigation -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 1 20:10:42 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTL7H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTH75@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ009011XMOZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KIZ00O411XLWI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22B20E9B9 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B34215FFD for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B258F38 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 077BFF36 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n41FHR56009546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 11:19:29 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Cyberspace: doomed to become a "vaster wasteland"? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <24C3E6B7-A12E-415F-973A-70E3915498EA@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 7A945A18-3663-11DE-B9ED-958C3B9A58AC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200905011124.47522.darius@dons.net.au> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Daniel O'Connor" Date: April 30, 2009 9:54:37 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] Cyberspace: doomed to become a "vaster wasteland"? Reply-To: darius@dons.net.au On Fri, 1 May 2009, David Farber wrote: > Cyberspace: doomed to become a "vaster wasteland"? > by Paul Saffo > > Nearly 50 years ago, then-FCC Commissioner Newton Minow lamented in a > speech to the National Association of Broadcasters that the once- > promising young medium of Television had become a "vast wasteland." > Well, history is repeating itself as the once-promising medium of the > Web is maturing into a vaster wasteland of cyberspace. The latest I think you mean.. "Well, history is repeating itself as people again lament about how a new medium is becoming a wasteland". Television is a very popular wasteland, the internet also seems very popular for an up and coming wasteland.. > Look for Time Warner's competitors to follow suit, and count on the > fact they won't stop at usage charges. As today's media giants flee a > crumbling mass media order, we can count on the big players doing > everything they can to make cyberspace ever more friendly to > corporate interests at the expense of innovative upstarts and the > public at large. The media establishment is determined to create an > Internet where not all packets are treated equally. As fans of > Bit-torrent learned two years ago, bit-flows from sites favored by > your provider will arrive faster than bit-flows from unapproved > sites. Personally, I don't think it is a big issue IF there is decent competition in the ISP market. ie bandwidth caps aren't inherently problematic to the consumer. If there is competition then ISPs have to tread the line between becoming leech magnets (which loses them money due to increased costs) and making their customers unhappy (which loses them money due to decreased revenue). Without decent competition then there is no real incentive for the ISP to do what the customer wants. This happened in Australia - when ISPs were forced to advertise truthfully (ie no "unlimited" accounts with limits) heavy downloaders used to switch ISPs quite often as various companies dabbled with unrealistically large download quotas. This didn't last very long as they either went out of business or forced people off those accounts. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 1 20:10:43 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTL7H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTH75@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ009011YMXC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KIZ005P21YMTL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB23EB14 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA4D915169 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65324F2D for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587FEF2C for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n41FHR55009546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 11:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 11:18:33 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Stimulus funds for open science? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_gUmKvo3Fna93nAggCNGL9w)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 583FD942-3663-11DE-9628-C05859662C72 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_gUmKvo3Fna93nAggCNGL9w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Robert Atkinson Date: April 30, 2009 10:50:45 PM EDT To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] Stimulus funds for open science? Unfortunately, the NTIA BTOP program is strictly limited about what = =20 the money can be used for. While it doesn=92t have to be spent on = =20 broadband infrastructure, I don=92t think the statute can be stretche= d =20 to fund scientific research. There are five defined categories for = =20 which grants can be made, none of which could cover "open science." = =20 There is a sixth catch-all grant category that allows funding for = =20 anything else that is consistent with the BTOP purposes, but the = =20 statutory purposes are quite explicit and restrictive. So, it is = =20 difficult to imagine how any of the "broadband stimulus" could be = =20 allocated "toward open science." Maybe the NSF has something in its = =20 portion of the stimulus money for this? It is also worth noting the NTIA portion of the $7.2B doesn't =20 necessarily have to be spent on new infrastructure. Only one of the = =20 six grant categories is specifically for building and deploying =20 broadband infrastructure and BTOP purposes envision a number of "soft= " =20 projects such as broadband education, training, etc. to stimulate = =20 broadband demand. If one goal of the stimulus is to increase =20 broadband penetration, it might be a good idea to spend much more tha= n =20 the mandated minimum of $250M on innovative programs to encourage = =20 sustainable broadband adoption. Bob Robert C. Atkinson Director of Policy Research Columbia Institute for Tele-Information (CITI) http://www.citi.columbia.edu office: 212-854-7576 mobile: 908-447-4201 E-mail: rca53@columbia.edu alt: bob@robertcatkinson.com On 4/30/09 2:02 PM, "David Farber" wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Larry Press > Date: April 30, 2009 11:25:00 AM EDT > To: "dave@farber.net" > Cc: ip > Subject: Stimulus funds for open science? > > Dave, > > James Boyle, Professor of Law at Duke University, suggests that so= me > Internet stimulus funds should go toward facilitating open science > rather than building infrastructure. > > Two excerpts from his Financial Times column > > (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/501df49e-2f7c-11de-=20 a8f6-00144feabdc0.html): > > > "What we ought to be doing is trying to understand where the > architecture of information in our society has been a success, whe= re > government investment has yielded remarkable social and economic > benefit. We can study the reasons for the absolutely stunning succ= ess > of the internet, and try extend that success, that model of networ= k > design, into places that it currently doesn=92t reach." > > ... > > "imagine a scientific research process that worked as efficiently = as > the web does for buying shoes. Then imagine what economic growth a > faster, leaner, and more open scientific research environment migh= t > generate." > > Larry Press > > PS -- He is wrong to downplay the need for new infrastructure. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_gUmKvo3Fna93nAggCNGL9w) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Robert Atkinson <rca53@co= lumbia.edu>
Date: April 30, 2009 10:50:45 PM ED= T
= To: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
Subject: Re: [IP] Stimulus f= unds for open science?

Unfortunately, the NTIA B= TOP program is strictly limited about what the money can be used for.=  While it doesn=92t have to be spent on broadband infrastructur= e, I don=92t think the statute can be stretched to fund scientific re= search. There are five defined categories for which grants can be mad= e, none of which could  cover "open science." There is a sixth c= atch-all grant category  that allows funding for anything else t= hat is consistent with the BTOP purposes, but the statutory purposes = are quite explicit and restrictive. So, it is difficult to imagine ho= w any of the "broadband stimulus" could be allocated "toward open sci= ence."  Maybe the NSF has something in its portion of the stimul= us money for this?

It is also worth noting the NTIA portion = of the $7.2B doesn't necessarily have to be spent on new infrastructu= re. Only one of the six grant categories is specifically for building= and deploying broadband infrastructure and BTOP purposes envision a = number of "soft" projects such as broadband education, training, etc.= to stimulate broadband demand.  If one goal of the stimulus is = to increase broadband penetration, it might be a good idea to spend m= uch more than the mandated minimum of $250M on innovative programs to= encourage sustainable broadband adoption.

Bob

Robe= rt C. Atkinson
Director of Policy Research
Columbia Institute= for Tele-Information (CITI)
http://www.citi.columbia.edu

office: 212-854-7576 mobile: 908-447-4201

E-mail: rca53@columbia.edu
alt: bob@robertcatkinson.com





On 4/30/09= 2:02 PM, "David Farber" <dave@farber.= net> wrote:

>
> > Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Larry Press= <lpress@csudh.edu>
> D= ate: April 30, 2009 11:25:00 AM EDT
> To: "dave@farber.net" <dave@fa= rber.net>
> Cc: ip <ip= @v2.listbox.com>
> Subject: Stimulus funds for open sci= ence?
>
> Dave,
>
> James Boyle, Profes= sor of Law at Duke University, suggests that some  
> Int= ernet stimulus funds should go toward facilitating open science  = ;
> rather than building infrastructure.
>
> Tw= o excerpts from his Financial Times column
>
> (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/501df49e-2f7c-11de-a8f6-00144feabdc0.h= tml):
>
>
> "What we ought to be doing is = trying to understand where the  
> architecture of inform= ation in our society has been a success, where  
> govern= ment investment has yielded remarkable social and economic  
= > benefit. We can study the reasons for the absolutely stunning s= uccess  
> of the internet, and try extend that success, = that model of network  
> design, into places that it cur= rently doesn=92t reach."
>
> ...
>
> "i= magine a scientific research process that worked as efficiently as &n= bsp;
> the web does for buying shoes. Then imagine what econom= ic growth a  
> faster, leaner, and more open scientific = research environment might  
> generate."
>
&= gt; Larry Press
>
> PS -- He is wrong to downplay the = need for new infrastructure.
>
>
>
> <= br> >
> -------------------------------------------
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--Boundary_(ID_gUmKvo3Fna93nAggCNGL9w)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 1 20:10:44 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTL7H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTH75@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00G01ASYX9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KIZ00AI3ASYLN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA4DA1F for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD68D69 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07BBD67 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n41Ilx3k011172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 14:47:58 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Sandvine: "DPI is Necessary" To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <77C3F098-069D-45DC-9090-88F0A923F484@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 9A2BB110-3680-11DE-ABD3-B19B7715995C X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49FB0924.8339A42A@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Seth Johnson Date: May 1, 2009 10:37:24 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: Sandvine: "DPI is Necessary" Reply-To: seth.johnson@RealMeasures.dyndns.org > http://www.p2pnet.net/story/21162 (See webpage for internal links. I just noticed there's some "rich" language in this, so be advised -- Seth) =91DPI is necessary=92 - Sandvine DPI, Deep Privacy Invasion (or Deep Packet Inspection) is the tool used by disgraced =91behavioural targeting=92 firm Phorm on behalf of giant UK provider BT, as well as other companies. British government approval of the technology has gotten it into a costly and politically disastrous lawsuit with the European Commission. In Canada, its use inspired the federal privacy commissioner to launc= h an anti-DPI site which states clearly and unequivocally =BB=BB=BB Deep packet inspection is just one seemingly neutral technological application that can have a significant impact on privacy rights and other basic civil liberties, especially as market forces, the enthusiasm of technologists and the influence of national security interests grow stronger. DPI is employed by acompany called Sandvine, based in Waterloo, Ontario, and which has now submitted a CRTC filing on Network Management (TPN2008-19 Review of Internet Traffic Management Practice= s of Internet Service Providers) in which it claims =93DPI is necessary= ,=94 says Sandvine Fluff in a dslreports comment post. In it, =93DPI is necessary for the identification of traffic today because the historically-used =91honour-based=92 port system of application classification no longer works,=94 says Sandvine. =93Essentially, some application developers have either intentionally= or unintentionally designed their applications to obfuscate the identity of the application. Today, DPI technology represents the only effective way to accurately identify different types of applications. =94 Really? =91Policy management=92 Whenever you see a corporate product with =91fair=92 in the name, you= can be 100% sure it=92ll be the exact opposite, p2pnet posted a little le= ss than a year ago, going on =BB=BB=BB Apple=92s FairPlay DRM is a shining example, and now ace Canadian digital restrictions management company Sandvine has come out with a product sure to make the likes of Bell Canada and Rogers glow. Sandvine, which coined the notable phrase =91policy management,=92 is= now touting Sandvine FairShare to, =93enhance its suite of Traffic Optimization solutions=94. For =91Traffic Optimization=92 read bandwidth throttling, and Sandvin= e=92s new consumer control technology =91empowers=92 ISPs, enabling, =93fai= r usage in the shared access network=94 with =93advanced techniques=94 to = =93ensure equitable allocation of network resources during periods of congestion,=94 it says. And it=92s =93fully application-agnostic,=94 meaning BitTorrent isn= =92t the only P2P file sharing application it=92ll target. We continued =BB=BB=BB =93FairShare automatically responds to the changing network environme= nt and subscriber usage patterns in real-time,=94 says Sandvine. To do that, it must be constantly spying on users and although DPI isn=92t mentioned, one wonders if it figures in Sandvine=92s FairShar= e. DPI =3D Deep Packet Inspection which, says the Wikipedia, =93enables advanced security functions as well as internet data mining, eavesdropping, censorship, etc=94. CAIP (Canadian Association of Internet Providers) said in a submissio= n to Canadian regulators, =93Bell is using DPI to sequester or =91hijac= k=92 certain data packets as they pass through the network, and hold these packets hostage until certain pre-conditions are met =85=94 And CIPPIC (Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic) is asking the Canadian privacy commissioner to open an investigation because, it says, Bell has not only, =93failed to obtain the consent = of its retail and wholesale internet customers in applying its deep-packet inspection technology, which tells the company what subscribers are using their connections for,=94 it=92s using Deep Pac= ket Inspection to, =93find and limit the use of peer-to-peer applications such as BitTorrent, which it says are congesting its network=94. Sandvine says, blandly, its FairShare, =93collects subscriber usage metrics from various sources and analyzes the data according to sophisticated, configurable parameters=94. Then it, =93dynamically modifies policies to balance available bandwi= dth and resources among subscribers=94. It actively throttles bandwidth, in other words. According to Sandvine in its submission to the CRTC, =93DPI is necess= ary for the identification of traffic today because the historically-use= d =93honour-based=94 port system of application classification no longe= r works. Essentially, some application developers have either intentionally or unintentionally designed their applications to obfuscate the identity of the application. Today, DPI technology represents the only effective way to accurately identify different types of applications.=94 Now, in the first of what=92s certain to be a long series of posts an= d arguments deconstructing Sandvine=92s claims of innocence, =93Boy, th= is makes me glad I gave up the free beer and ended up working elsewhere,= =94 says shepd in dslreports (http://www.dslreports.com/profile/933870), going on =BB=BB=BB Sandvine (6) : Sandvine submits that the true =93content=94 of an Int= ernet transmission is represented as the body of your e-mail message; the music or movie you are downloading; the video you are streaming; the words in your VoIP call, etc. As explained in Sandvine=92s initial comments to the Notice, Sandvine=92s congestion management solutions, including those that employ DPI, do not inspect content as the conten= t is not relevant to a congestion management solution. To be clear, they: Do not read your e-mail; Do not listen to your voice calls; Do not watch the video you are streaming, etc. shepd: Point 6 is (or or will be) a lie. The best DPI systems would implement caching for streaming video, I=92m guessing Sandvine doesn= =92t do this (yet). Sandvine (16): Because typical congestion management solutions do not inspect the actual content of users=92 Internet traffic, they also cannot record, report on, or store such personal information. As explained in paragraph 62 of Sandvine=92s original comments, the mos= t =93personal=94 information that Sandvine=92s congestion management so= lutions record for an Internet account (i.e, not a particular individual, but the IP address attached to an Internet account, which may include access for many individuals) is aggregate volume usage data, by application or protocol. For example, a typical congestion managemen= t solution could report the number of bytes of a VoIP protocol sent and/or received by a given Internet account over a fixed period. shepd: I know personally is an absolute and complete utter lie. One o= f Sandvine=92s most popular solutions was to combine logging activities with their DPI hardware. You could buy several TB log servers just fo= r this purpose. The idea was that when you call up support they could check your account on this log server and see if you have viruses or are running P2P so they could weed out people who just can=92t fix th= eir PCs vs. people with bad connections. Sandvine (17): As described above, Sandvine submits that the use of DPI-based congestion management solutions do not create a privacy concern in that they do not inspect content for the purposes of traffic classification, nor is any such information stored within suc= h solutions. Despite this fact, certain respondents claim that somehow the mere presence of DPI-based technology itself raises privacy issues, and have called for an outright ban on any such technology. Imagine if this approach were applied to other technologies, such as those supporting cameras. Single Lens Reflex (SLR) technology underlies cameras that take photos at family birthday parties. The same technology has been applied for surveillance of individuals and public spaces. One use of the technology raises privacy issues, the other does not. Nobody questions the value or validity of the camera technology. So why question DPI technology? Privacy concerns properl= y attach to applications or uses of technologies, not to the technologies themselves. shepd: 17 is just plain stupid. Encrypted communications are private by their very nature. If I walk into most museums and start taking pictures (especially with an SLR) I=92ll be escorted out by the polic= e, because it=92s trespassing. I=92ll probably be served, too, if it= =92s obvious I was intended to be a douche about it. Sandvine (18): Banning the use of DPI, would have far-reaching and damaging consequences across the Internet, where the technology is used extensively. The wireless router in your home probably uses DPI to make sure that time-sensitive packets like VoIP or gaming are delivered quickly, while delaying less time-sensitive packets like e-mail. Firewalls, some built right into popular PC operating systems, use DPI to analyze packets for malicious intent like viruses, trojans, and Spam. Libraries, schools and government institutions rely on their firewalls to protect themselves and their users from attacks. Those firewalls use DPI technology. Load balancers and routers, indispensable hardware that distribute traffic on the Internet and private networks, use DPI to identify where a given packet or URL should be routed and what priority it should be given. shepd: Yes, that=92s why we want DPI banned for PUBLIC usage, not PRIVATE. Duh. Sandvine (19): DPI is also a key part of the innovation in allowing a migration from IPv4 to IPv6 allowing a network operator to convert =66rom one to the other using a carrier-grade network-address-translation (NAT) and keeping protocols such as VoIP operational. shepd: WTF??? How the hell can inspecting a packet help you take an IPv4 address and put it on an IPv6 network without modifying the contents of the packet? And I thought you just said in point 6 you don=92t inspect the content? How do you even know it=92s an IPv4 pack= et then? Sandvine (20): As described above, Sandvine submits that typical congestion management practices (which the Company believes is the subject of theNotice) do not raise personal privacy issues. However, Sandvine recognizes that other Internet solutions that are in high demand from consumers, governments and society in general may raise personal privacy considerations. Examples, raised by certain respondents include lawful intercept, copyright enforcement, and targeted advertising. shepd: See 19 =85 and, =9322, 24, 26 =97 Contradict point 6, again,=94 he says. [22= -- To continue the earlier analogy, surveillance of individuals or public spaces could be achieved through a SLR-supported still frame camera o= r through video recorders supported by a variety of technologies. Similarly, solutions like lawful intercept, copyright enforcement and targeted advertising are achieved through a variety of technologies, not just ? or even predominantly ? DPI. 24 -- DPI technology can comprise a component of targeted advertising solutions, but it has been very rarely used this way. Instead, other technologies have dominated. Google is one of the leaders in targeted advertising, but to Sandvine's knowledge its targeted advertising solutions do not use DPI. According to Google's own Advertising and Privacy notice in connection with its enormously popular Gmail e-mail application, Google reads your mail to make decisions on targeted advertising: "The Gmail filtering system also scans for keywords in users' emails which are then used to match and serve ads. When a user opens an email message, computers scan the text and then instantaneously display relevant information that is matched to the text of the message. 26 -- Lawful intercept provides another example of how privacy-sensitive solutions can be enabled by a wide variety of technologies. In the United States under the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), service providers are required to identify and intercept criminal data traffic under a lawful warrant provided by law enforcement agencies. DPI technology could be used in a solution designed to support the collection of tha= t data, but so too could a home computer "tapped" into the communications of the individual that is the subject of the warrant.] Sandvine (25): According to the Google Toolbar Privacy Notice, the We= b History service available through the popular Google Toolbar, =93reco= rds information about the web pages you visit and your activity on Google= , including your search queries, the results you click on, and the date and time of your searches in order to improve your search experience and display your web activity. Over time, the service may also use additional information about your activity on Google or other information you provide us in order to deliver a more personalized experience.=94 According to the same Privacy Notice, Google=92s Page= Rank service also sends Google =93the addresses or other information abou= t sites when you visit them. According to Google=92s Privacy FAQ, Google stores search engine logs data for each user for 18 months prior to anonymizing it. Again, to Sandvine=92s knowledge, none of th= ese solutions use DPI. shepd: So, because Google does it differently, that=92s how it=92s al= l done, right? I use a 1541 disk drive (Commodore), so *OBVIOUSLY* my P= C can read the disks, you know, because *I* do it that way. Yup. Awesom= e argument. Sandvine (27): In many cases, questions around privacy-sensitive Internet solutions will ultimately come down to the ability to secure sufficient user consent. To date, vendors of privacy-sensitive solutions like targeted advertising have struggled with providing reliable mechanisms for managing user consent. The mechanisms, whether designed as opt-in (where the user must proactively consent t= o being subject to the solution) or opt-out (where the user must proactively demand NOT to be subject to the solution) have typically been cookies-based. Cookies are =93small pieces of text, stored by a user=92s web browser, that contain the user=92s settings, shopping ca= rt contents, or other data used by websites. 29 =96 Fortunately, a bett= er solution to the consentproblem is available, through a network-level association between the subscriber=92s account and his permission settings related to the privacysensitive solutions. Regardless of th= e computer he uses to access his Internet account or the browser that h= e uses on those computers, the permissions follow the user. Only if the user intentionally changes his account-level privacy permissions could a previously opted-out user be opted-in. Such a solution can b= e implemented through the use of DPI technology. shepd: 27 - 29 =97 Nothing at all to do with DPI. Sandvine (30, 32): Service providers are just beginning to explore other uses of DPI that can make their service offerings more attractive to consumers in an increasingly competitive Internet acces= s market. High-speed Internet services are largely offered in the for= m of flat rate, monthly, unlimited plans. Consumers may be interested in other types of service plans that better reflect the unique ways that they use their Internet connections. Such plans would likely necessitate the ability to differentiate between types of traffic and applications, which in turn would necessitate the use DPI technology as well as other network intelligence tools. 32 =97 Other consumers m= ay be interested in a service package that guarantees a high quality of service for certain frequently-used, latency-sensitive applications, like Internet video gaming or VoIP. A DPI-supported policy solution that can distinguish between different types of traffic and applications is necessary to enable this type of service package. shepd: 30 - 32 =97 Direct assault on net neutrality. Pay more for rea= l internet, pay less for fake internet. Why go through the effort with DPI? Just dump in a forced proxy server and you=92re gold if you just want to provide KIRF internet. Sandvine (35): In response to point =93a=94 (and as already describe= d in paragraph 55 of Sandvine=92s initial comments) a policy that is targe= ted at disproportionate users of bandwidth can become more targeted by applying an application-specific policy as well. For example, by their nature, applications like VoIP, online video gaming and others do not contribute meaningfully to network congestion, but because the= y are time-sensitive applications, their usefulness to the consumer is greatly impacted by any delays in their delivery. Congestion management solutions allow service providers to create a narrowly-targeted policy that affects: only disproportionate users; only applications that contribute disproportionately to bandwidth consumption; and only applications that are not time-sensitive. shepd: 35 =97 In my opinion, nothing is a bigger hog than work VPNs. = So let=92s boot off these corporate hogs. Oh wait, this is all opinion based and therefore total BS, right? Sandvine (36): Such a policy would minimally impact users=92 quality = of experience, while achieving the congestion management goal. Sandvine is focused on maximizing the user=92s Internet experience. shepd: 36 =97 =93Maximizing=94 their experience they way they did wit= h Comcast, yes? Yes, I sure do feel people had their experience with tech-support =93maximized=94. Sandvine (41): Further, many IETF standards implicitly require the us= e of DPI, such as RFC 3489, =93Simple Traversal of User Datagram Proto= col (UDP) Through Network Address Translators (NATs)=94, and RFC 2766, =93Network Address Translation - Protocol Translation (NAT-PT)=94 shepd: 41 =97 If my IP started with 192.168, 172.16-30, or 10. this i= s right. Guess what, that=92s not what any of this is about. Sandvine (42): One of the DPI-supported congestion management policie= s that Sandvine has historically offered service providers is =93sessi= on management=94of P2P file-sharing traffic through the use of TCP Reset packets (RST packets) (see paragraph 53 of Sandvine=92s initial comments). Despite the claims of certain respondents, there are simply no IETF standards on when or how RST packets should be used. It is further claimed that the RST packets used in session management are in some way =93forged=94 because an RST packet is supposed to mea= n that =93the other end of the connection has failed.=94 While origina= l implementations of RST packets were for this purpose, as with much on the Internet, their use has evolved. For example, most webservers us= e RST packets today as a mechanism for tearing down TCP connections because it is much more efficient than a four-way connection teardown= . In short, RST packets are broadly used today and for purposes other than communicating that =93the other end of the communication has failed.=94 shepd: 42 =97 The US Government, of all people, has told you, Sandvin= e, that you *are* impersonating people on the internet by injecting RST packets. STFU already! =93Sandvine, you are embarassing my hometown,=94 says shepd, adding, = =93If you are going to write shit, at least make it coherent shit.=94 And guess who=92ll be taking notes avidly, if it isn=92t already in behind-closed-doors communication with Sandvine? Phorm, anyone? Definitely stay tuned. Jon Newton - p2pnet (Thanks, Marc) -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 1 20:10:46 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTL7H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTH75@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00K01BP5P5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 15:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KIZ00HJWBP4RE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 15:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B2D27CA1 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 15:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4623B30AA for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 15:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E94523552 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609E223551 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n41Ilx3l011172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 14:48:45 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Cyberspace: doomed to become a "vaster wasteland"? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <08B38681-2422-41FE-9045-BDE27C7C5430@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: B658376E-3680-11DE-973E-9A82D783C61A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49FB1973.3080408@reed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "David P. Reed" Date: May 1, 2009 11:46:59 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Cyberspace: doomed to become a "vaster wasteland"? Cable ISPs and Fiber ISPs are not competing to offer high speed Internet - because customers are forced to buy bundles with TV and phone that do not separate out the costs. Imagine a world where buying a Toyota car meant you could only buy gas from Toyota Service Stations, and could only park your car in Toyota Garages. I don't think you could argue that gas or parking would be competitive. The likelihood of meaningful competition on usage caps is pretty near zero for any particular household. How many households have the ability to buy the TV deal of their choice from one company, and the High Speed Internet deal of their choice from another company without paying an "unbundling tax" that far exceeds the cost of one or the other service? I am lucky to be able to choose among triple plays from Verizon, Comcast, and RCN. (that puts me in the 0.1% of the population that has that much choice). There is essentially no variation among the deals I can get. It seems likely that all will "usage cap" in exactly the same way for the same reason: they want to protect their TV businesses. Where would competition come from? -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 1 20:10:47 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTL7H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTH75@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00K01BRSUV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 15:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KIZ00CITBRS9K@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 15:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07FC927E98 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 15:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E339BB32C4 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 15:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D611AD97 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE00ED94 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n41Ilx3m011172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 14:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 14:49:39 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] New FCC Appointee Could Face Choice Between Obama's Agenda and AT&T's To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: D75E0D4E-3680-11DE-A66D-E83057F89896 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: May 1, 2009 12:25:58 PM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] New FCC Appointee Could Face Choice Between Obama's Agenda and AT&T's New FCC Appointee Could Face Choice Between Obama's Agenda and AT&T's Art Brodsky Communications Director, Public Knowledge Posted April 30, 2009 | 10:50 PM (EST) House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-SC) may not have done his daughter, Mignon, any favors by getting her appointed to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). Mignon Clyburn has served on the South Carolina Public Service Commission since 1998. When confirmed, she would join Julius Genachowski, the Administration's stalled nominee for chairman, and a Republican to be named later as the core of a future FCC. Mignon Clyburn will come into office faced with a very delicate political balancing act, which she no doubt recognizes from growing up in a political family. Her father is the House Majority Whip, the third-ranking position in the leadership; he is the highest-ranking African American. Over the past 10 years, as a member of the PSC, Clyburn has gone along with the normal pro-Bell tilt to the Commission. As one telecom attorney with experience in southern state put it, if a competitive carrier went to the South Carolina commission to argue that the sky was blue, and AT&T (the former BellSouth) argued the sky was purple, the PSC would rule in favor of purple. The Bell companies have an unrivaled story of success in the South Carolina regulatory system and legislature, as they do in many southern states. For example, in 1997, the year before Clyburn joined the Commission, the PSC approved BellSouth's application to provide long-distance service within the state. The Justice Department and FCC each rejected it. BellSouth tried again in the friendlier atmosphere of 2002, again supported by the state, and this time was approved. Through 2003 and 2004, "Questions of integrity and incompetence" swirled around the PSC," the Columbia, S.C., State newspaper reported on April 13, 2003 as state lawmakers debated how to reform the institution after severely criticizing the competence and effectiveness of the current commissioners, including Clyburn, who had served as chairman from 2002 to 2004. The newspaper, reported on April 16, 2003, that, "Failure to properly regulate one South Carolina utility was simply a mistake, not a sign of staff problems at the Public Service Commission, agency officials said Tuesday. 'It's something that can be remedied,' commission chairwoman Mignon Clyburn said." AT&T is a politically potent force, as Mignon Clyburn and her father well know, and there will doubtless be pressure on her to follow the policies that veteran telecom attorneys from the region acknowledge she has long supported. Those philosophies, however, could come into sharp contrast with the expected progressive policies espoused by the President Obama's campaign, many of which were drafted by Genachowski and supported in the $787 billion stimulus law which requires open networks and non- discrimination policies in broadband networks built with stimulus funds. It will be an interesting exercise in political realpolitik. If Mignon Clyburn or other family members have future political ambitions in South Carolina, would she have to toe the AT&T line at the FCC? Or will she betray the Administration that appointed her? Mignon Clyburn certainly stands out from the other tech/regulatory luminaries who have been appointed or nominated for positions in the Administration as the only one who has a hint of support for old-line, big business telecom. The rest are tech-friendly and forward-looking. [snip] RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 1 20:10:48 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTL7H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTH75@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00A01G1FRJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KIZ00A0IG1FPT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1AB27DFF for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFFD25390 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3A135E for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 288BC35D for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n41Kbimw017218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 16:38:35 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] EFFector 22.13: EFF Files Suit Against Apple Computer, Inc., to Defend the First Amendment To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 0E2EA4FA-3690-11DE-B45D-E45339F6D40A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <32293336.1241206689162.JavaMail.www@app18> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: EFFector list Date: May 1, 2009 3:32:30 PM EDT To: eff-all@eff.org Subject: [E-B] EFFector 22.13: EFF Files Suit Against Apple Computer, Inc., to Defend the First Amendment Reply-To: EFFector list EFFector Vol. 22, No. 13 May 1, 2009 editor@eff.org A Publication of the Electronic Frontier Foundation ISSN 1062-9424 : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : In our 508th issue: * EFF HAS FILED SUIT AGAINST APPLE COMPUTER, INC., TO DEFEND THE FIRST AMENDMENT rights of an operator of a public Internet "wiki" site known as BluWiki. The site is entirely noncommercial, operated by OdioWorks as a public service. Late last year, Apple lawyers demanded removal of some of the content on BluWiki, alleging that the discussions constituted copyright infringement and a violation of the DMCA's prohibition on circumventing copy protection measures. The discussions in question focused on how hobbyists might enable iPods and iPhones to work with desktop media management software other than Apple's own iTunes software, such as WinAmp and Songbird. Fearing legal action by Apple, OdioWorks took down the discussions from the BluWiki site. OdioWorks filed the lawsuit in order to vindicate its right to restore those discussions. The suit seeks a declaratory judgment that the discussions do not violate any of the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions and do not infringe any copyrights owned by Apple. For the full press release: http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/04/27 For more on this case: http://www.eff.org/cases/odioworks-v-apple * EFF HAS CALLED ON CONGRESS TO EXAMINE THE INVESTIGATIVE DATA WAREHOUSE (IDW) -- a massive FBI data-mining project that includes a billion records, many of which contain personal information on American citizens. Supporting its request, EFF provided Congress with its new report on IDW, published this week with information obtained through Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) litigation. In August 2006, EFF sought documents about the IDW under the Freedom of Information Act, but the agency has withheld important details about the collection, maintenance, and use of personal information contained in the huge database. The Department of Justice recently told the court that no additional material will be disclosed, despite the Obama administration's new policies on open government. The IDW contains at least 53 datasets and includes more than four times as many unique documents as the Library of Congress. For the press release: http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/04/28 For the blog post: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/eff-issues-report-fb : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : EFF Updates * Ninth Circuit Issues State Secrets Opinion The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the Government's expansive view of the state secrets privilege this week, allowing an "extraordinary rendition" case against Jeppesen Dataplan to proceed. http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/ninth-circuit-allows * Hearings on Phone Unlocking, Jailbreaking, DVD Clipping Today the U.S. Copyright Office comes to Stanford Law School to hold hearings on proposed exemptions to the DMCA's prohibition on circumventing technical protection measures. http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/dmca-hearings-phone- * RealDVD v. DVD-CCA: The Duel Begins In Earnest Opening shots were fired last week in the RealNetworks v. DVD-CCA case. Unfortunately, the public was excluded from key parts of the battle, when the presiding judge, Marilyn Hall Patel, granted DVD-CCA's request to close the courtroom. http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/realdvd-v-dvd-cca-du * Google Book Search Settlement In recent weeks, there have been a number of important developments relating to the Google Book Search settlement, currently awaiting approval before a court in New York. http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/google-book-search-s : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : miniLinks ~ Rep. Boucher Pushes Internet Privacy Legislation The Virginia Congressman wants legislation that will protect the public against behavioral advertising and other new technologies. http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000003103117 ~ Obama's First 100 Days: High Marks for Science, Low for Privacy Wired's Threat Level blog grades the Obama administration on issues of copyright, cyber security, transparency and privacy. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/04/obama-100-days ~ Lessig Video Gets DMCA Takedown Warner Music issued a DMCA takedown against a video by copyright and DMCA law expert Lawrence Lessig. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/04/lessig-presentation-on-youtube-hit-with-dmca-takedown-notice.ars For more miniLinks: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/minilinks-2009-04-30 : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : Announcements * Send EFF to CFP! EFF is looking for donations of airline tickets for the Computers, Freedom and Privacy conference and other conferences and speaking engagements. We need at least one round trip ticket from San Francisco to Washington, D.C., for CFP, and we'll certainly need additional tickets throughout the year. If you have enough airline miles for a free ticket and would like to send an EFF staffer to a conference, let us know, and we will help you with the process of making the reservation. Please note that at this time, we are unable to combine miles from multiple individuals. In exchange for a ticket, we can offer a free membership and a mention in EFFector (if you'd like). Please contact info@eff.org if you have a ticket to donate. Thank you Doug Faunt for donating tickets! * EFF's Web 2.0 Compliance Bootcamp Does your company have to contend with the maze of laws dealing with user privacy and publishing user content? Want to do the right thing by the online community that gives your business value, and still fulfill your legal obligations? On May 11, 2009, EFF will reprise its successful one-day session for Internet companies that handle issues arising from users and user-generated content. From DMCA to CDA to ECPA, the law surrounding Internet content can be confusing, especially for the folks who have to decide on the fly whether to let something stay up or take it down, or whether to give their customer's name to the FBI agent on the phone. We will also have additional sessions on open source licensing and employment law for start-ups and small Internet companies. The event is co-sponsored by the Golden Gate University School of Law Intellectual Property Law Center. Topic areas include: * Defamation, harassment, and other accusations of bad behavior * Fair use, free culture, and the right to remix * Copyright take-downs and put-backs * How to respond to cops, crooks, and courts who want your customers' communications and other private information * Anonymous speakers * Porn, predators, and the pressure to police * Open source issues * Employment basics for start-ups Where: Golden Gate University School of Law 536 Mission Street San Francisco CA, 94105-2968 How much: $300. Google has generously offered to sponsor some attendees who cannot afford the $300 price. Please send a short paragraph about why you need the scholarship assistance to bootcamp@eff.org. We will evaluate all applicants and get back to you a week before the event. For more information: http://www.eff.org/bootcamp/ To sign up: http://secure.eff.org/bootcamp : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : Administrivia EFFector is published by: The Electronic Frontier Foundation http://www.eff.org/about Editor: Sara Bassett, Membership Services Assistant sara@eff.org Membership & donation queries: membership@eff.org To support EFF: secure.eff.org/donate General EFF, legal, policy, or online resources queries: information@eff.org Back issues of EFFector are available at: http://www.eff.org/effector/ To unsubscribe or change your subscription preferences: http://action.eff.org/site/CO?i=KKZH8SaR7Y5c1K8TNGLdJ0G0V6qcE2mP&cid=1041 To change your email address: http://action.eff.org/addresschange To support EFF: secure.eff.org/donate Reproduction of this publication in electronic media is encouraged. This newsletter is printed on 100% recycled electrons. To unsubscribe from all future email, paste the following URL into your browser: http://action.eff.org/site/CO?i=Wl-emqtXXblOPr5-X8X1DU9Z4WgcVhTx&cid=1041 -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 1 20:10:49 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTL7H@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00D01PTH75@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 01 May 2009 20:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KIZ00A01G2VZH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KIZ00A2GG2VPT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 802C527FD3 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E14A2557C for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B93428DFE for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:37:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F2D28DFD for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n41Kbimv017218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 16:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 16:37:46 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: end the university To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <69267528-869E-4E9E-8100-D56E8D1804A5@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_vF8acFqzMvHyZSQeM2dchQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: F0814552-368F-11DE-855E-90BBB77FD868 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <64239279-F1AC-4139-B3EC-C12E62671F06@flyingcircuit.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_vF8acFqzMvHyZSQeM2dchQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Charles Brown Date: May 1, 2009 2:55:45 PM EDT To: kateryndraper@yahoo.com Cc: Brown Charles , David Farber , dboyes@sinenomine.net Subject: Re: [Politics] end the university Hello Karen, I'm not an academic or associated with academia, but did study =20 philosophy and literature in addition to business/finance some years = =20 ago. I have since evolved into a self-taught geek of sorts with =20 abiding interests in wireless, Internet, and applying technology for = =20 the general good and the longevity of the Republic. Having some familiarity with both sides of the street (I have =20 continued to read since University days), I will state, unequivocally= , =20 that this country will rue the day it adopts a Wall Street meme, = =20 ethic, system or management structure for educating our people. This= =20 is laughable and the proposition displays a monumental ignorance of = =20 its own; a naive ignorance. Is this idea being taken seriously in = =20 academia? I recently heard a review of a collection of essays by George =20 Scialabba's, "What Are Intellectuals Good For?", by Maureen Corriga= n =20 on NPR. I think you will enjoy it. I never heard of Scialabba and = =20 the book had a small printing and is already back-ordered at Amazon. = =20 I particularly enjoyed the last paragraph of her review which is = =20 quoted below. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3D103567148 "If you're one of the fit-though-few whose brain doesn't go into = =20 automatic snooze mode at the mention of the word "intellectual," his = =20 pieces here are a pleasure to read =97 supple, accessible and wide-= =20 ranging. Writing enthusiastically about the work of journalists =20 Alexander Cockburn and I.F. Stone, Scialabba says that, while they = =20 didn't "create monuments of unaging intellect ... they hemmed in = =20 everyday barbarism a little." That's a fine way to sum up Scialabba's= =20 own achievement: He's not a household name, his essays and reviews = =20 won't rock the world, and I doubt that they're making him a whole lot= =20 of money, but to those of us who follow his lonely patrols around the= =20 perimeter, his work hems in the everyday barbarism of mental laziness= =20 and moral evasion, just a little." Hemming-in the everyday barbarism, indeed. Charlie Begin forwarded message: =46rom: David Boyes Date: April 29, 2009 11:49:42 AM EDT To: "dave@farber.net" Subject: FW: [Politics] end the university Another interesting item from our discussion of this article. For IP = =20 if you like. -- db ------ Forwarded Message =46rom: Karen Dollinger Reply-To: Politics Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:03:51 -0400 To: Subject: Re: [Politics] end the university I had strong - and mixed - reactions to this article. First, I shoul= d =20 explain my background. I have a Bachelor of Philosophy in =20 Interdisciplinary Studies, and a Doctorate in Spanish (specifically, = =20 Indigenous and Colonial Latin American Literatures and Cultures.) I = =20 am currently finishing up a one year non-tenure-track position as a = =20 Spanish professor of undergrads at a public university, and looking = =20 for work, so far unsuccessfully. I disagree with Taylor's central premise that the university as we = =20 know it should be ended. The purpose of education is not to produce = a =20 product (job candidates), but to expand our minds, learn how to think= , =20 function in a democracy, understand our world, serve society, and man= y =20 other things I've forgotten. Education should be (and frequently is) = =20 valued by an employer because a graduate theoretically is better = =20 equipped to think originally and to solve problems. I also disagree that departments foster "limited knowledge that all = =20 too often is irrelevant for genuinely important problems." The topic= =20 for my dissertation, the Mexican Inquisition (specifically looking at= =20 its influence on several Mexican authors from the 16th and 17th =20 century), is certainly obscure. However, the Inquisition is =20 frequently invoked in the American Neo-Pagan community, usually =20 incorrectly. Non-pagans would be surprised just how important the = =20 trope of the Inquisition as demon is to modern Neo-Pagans. =20 Unfortunately, the Inquisition is not properly understood, and create= s =20 real-world problems in a 21st century religious movement. I can go = =20 into more detail if anyone wishes, but it's outside the scope of this= =20 post. And that's just one example. Another - Nahuatl (Aztec) is an obscure= =20 language. One would think it's not important. Yet a California = =20 warden posted a request to an academic Nahuatl listserv for =20 translators. While many American guards speak Spanish, gang members = =20 =66rom Mexico are frequently bilingual in Spanish and Nahuatl, and us= e =20 the latter to communicate in prison. Notice both these examples come from an obscure subcategory (16th = =20 century Mexican language and literature) in a non-profitable =20 discipline (Spanish.) And yet this sort of thing occurs in most = =20 subcategories in all disciplines, even the non-business disciplines. Taylor is dead-on about the use the graduate teaching associates. No= w =20 I do think it's very important to let graduate students teach - one = =20 learns to teach by doing. But there is a move in universities to = =20 eliminate full-time teachers, and rely on cheap graduate labor and = =20 large numbers of part-time adjuncts who would not qualify for health = =20 insurance. That's the problem I face now in my job search. =20 Universities are only hiring adjuncts. Unlike Taylor, I support departments operating independently. It's = =20 one way to ensure academic freedom and intellectual honesty. If = =20 universities were to go to a Wall Street model, as Taylor advocates, = =20 the business-minded president as CEO would be able to dictate what = =20 could and could not be taught. Interdisciplinary studies are near and dear to my heart. More should= =20 be done to encourage this. I'd love to see an interdisciplinary = =20 program or department at every university. On the other hand, interdisciplinary implies multiple disciplines. = =20 Taylor's suggestion to abolish departments makes no sense. There's = =20 nothing wrong with having courses built around interdisciplinary zone= s =20 of inquiry; it should be encouraged. But that shouldn't be the only = =20 sort of education going on. I do agree that there should be increased collaboration among =20 institutions. But as a luddite, I'm not convinced that foreign =20 languages, to use Taylor's example, can be effectively taught through= =20 the Internet. That could just be me, though. Taylor's proposal to transform the dissertation is intriguing. On th= e =20 one hand, working on a dissertation honed both my writing and editing= =20 skills, and led me to learn a lot more about the Inquisition and = =20 Mexican ideological debates than I would have otherwise. On the othe= r =20 hand, there might well have been a way to channel my work to better = =20 help people. Taylor is right when he talks about expanding the range of =20 professional options for graduate students. We are mostly prepared t= o =20 be professors, and there are more graduates than there are teaching = =20 jobs. I seem to recall one unit in one course that dealt with non-= =20 academic jobs for PhDs. Universities can do much better with career = =20 placement. Tenure, however, needs to stay. Right now, the only college =20 instructors whose health benefits are safe are tenured professors. I= f =20 tenure goes, teaching could easily become a part-time profession. = =20 Tenure also protects researchers who champion unpopular or =20 "unpatriotic" views. I could go on, but need to get to bed so I can teach class =20 tomorrow. :-) Karen _______________________________________________ Politics mailing list Politics@lists.4th.com http://lists.4th.com/listinfo/politics ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_vF8acFqzMvHyZSQeM2dchQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Charles Brown <cbro= wn@flyingcircuit.com>
Date: May 1, 2009 2:55:45 PM ED= T


Having some familiarity with both sides of the street (I have = continued to read since University days), I will state, unequivocally= , that this country  will rue the day it adopts a Wall Street me= me, ethic, system or management structure for educating our people. &= nbsp;This is laughable and the proposition displays a monumental igno= rance of its own;  a naive ignorance.  Is this idea being t= aken seriously in academia?  

I recentl= y heard a review of a collection of essays by George Scialabba's= ,  "What Are Intellectuals Good For?",  by Mauree= n Corrigan on NPR.  I think you will enjoy it.  I never hea= rd of Scialabba and the book had a small printing and is already back= -ordered at Amazon.  I particularly enjoyed the last paragraph o= f her review which is quoted below.


"If you're one of the fit-though-few whose = brain doesn't go into automatic snooze mode at the mention of the wor= d "intellectual," his pieces here are a pleasure to read =97 supple, = accessible and wide-ranging. Writing enthusiastically about the work = of journalists Alexander Cockburn and I.F. Stone, Scialabba says that= , while they didn't "create monuments of unaging intellect ... they h= emmed in everyday barbarism a little." That's a fine way to sum up Sc= ialabba's own achievement: He's not a household name, his essays and = reviews won't rock the world, and I doubt that they're making him a w= hole lot of money, but to those of us who follow his lonely patrols a= round the perimeter, his work hems in the everyday barbarism of menta= l laziness and moral evasion, just a little."

Hemming-in the everyday barbarism, indeed.  

Charlie



Begin forwarded message:
From: David Bo= yes <dboyes@sinenomine.ne= t>
Date: April 29, 2009 11:49:42 AM EDT
To: dave@farber.net" <dave@farber.net>
Subject: <= b>FW: [Politics] end the university

Another int= eresting item from our discussion of this article. For IP if you like= . 

-- db
------ Forwarded Message
From: Karen Dollinger <>
Reply-To: Politics <>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:= 03:51 -0400
To: <politics@lists.4th.com>Subject: Re: [Politics] end the university




I had strong - and mixed - reactions to this arti= cle.  First, I should explain my background.  I have a Bach= elor of Philosophy in Interdisciplinary Studies, and a Doctorate in S= panish (specifically, Indigenous and Colonial Latin American Literatu= res and Cultures.)  I am currently finishing up a one year non-t= enure-track position as a Spanish professor of undergrads at a public= university, and looking for work, so far unsuccessfully.

I di= sagree with Taylor's central premise that the university as we know i= t should be ended.  The purpose of education is not to produce a= product (job candidates), but to expand our minds, learn how to thin= k, function in a democracy, understand our world, serve society, and = many other things I've forgotten. Education should be (and frequently= is) valued by an employer because a graduate theoretically is better= equipped to think originally and to solve problems.

I also di= sagree that departments foster "limited knowledge that all too often = is irrelevant for genuinely important problems."  The topic for = my dissertation, the Mexican Inquisition (specifically looking at its= influence on several Mexican authors from the 16th and 17th century)= , is certainly obscure.  However, the Inquisition is frequently = invoked in the American Neo-Pagan community, usually incorrectly. &nb= sp;Non-pagans would be surprised just how important the trope of the = Inquisition as demon is to modern Neo-Pagans.  Unfortunately, th= e Inquisition is not properly understood, and creates real-world prob= lems in a 21st century religious movement.  I can go into more d= etail if anyone wishes, but it's outside the scope of this post.
<= br>And that's just one example.  Another - Nahuatl (Aztec) is an= obscure language.  One would think it's not important.  Ye= t a California warden posted a request to an academic Nahuatl listser= v for translators.  While many American guards speak Spanish, ga= ng members from Mexico are frequently bilingual in Spanish and Nahuat= l, and use the latter to communicate in prison. 

Notice b= oth these examples come from an obscure subcategory (16th century Mex= ican language and literature) in a non-profitable discipline (Spanish= .)  And yet this sort of thing occurs in most subcategories in a= ll disciplines, even the non-business disciplines.

Taylor is d= ead-on about the use the graduate teaching associates.  Now I do= think it's very important to let graduate students teach - one learn= s to teach by doing.  But there is a move in universities to eli= minate full-time teachers, and rely on cheap graduate labor and large= numbers of part-time adjuncts who would not qualify for health insur= ance.  That's the problem I face now in my job search.  Uni= versities are only hiring adjuncts.

Unlike Taylor, I support d= epartments operating independently.  It's one way to ensure acad= emic freedom and intellectual honesty.  If universities were to = go to a Wall Street model, as Taylor advocates, the business-minded p= resident as CEO would be able to dictate what could and could not be = taught.

Interdisciplinary studies are near and dear to my hear= t.  More should be done to encourage this.  I'd love to see= an interdisciplinary program or department at every university.
<= br>On the other hand, interdisciplinary implies multiple disciplines.=  Taylor's suggestion to abolish departments makes no sense. &nb= sp;There's nothing wrong with having courses built around interdiscip= linary zones of inquiry; it should be encouraged.  But that shou= ldn't be the only sort of education going on.

I do agree that = there should be increased collaboration among institutions.  But= as a luddite, I'm not convinced that foreign languages, to use Taylo= r's example, can be effectively taught through the Internet. That cou= ld just be me, though.

Taylor's proposal to transform the diss= ertation is intriguing.  On the one hand, working on a dissertat= ion honed both my writing and editing skills, and led me to learn a l= ot more about the Inquisition and Mexican ideological debates than I = would have otherwise.  On the other hand, there might well have = been a way to channel my work to better help people.

Taylor is= right when he talks about expanding the range of professional option= s for graduate students.  We are mostly prepared to be professor= s, and there are more graduates than there are teaching jobs.  I= seem to recall one unit in one course that dealt with non-academic j= obs for PhDs.  Universities can do much better with career place= ment.

Tenure, however, needs to stay.  Right now, the onl= y college instructors whose health benefits are safe are tenured prof= essors.  If tenure goes, teaching could easily become a part-tim= e profession.  Tenure also protects researchers who champion unp= opular or "unpatriotic" views.

I could go on, but need to get = to bed so I can teach class tomorrow.  :-)

Karen

<= br>

     


________________= _______________________________
Politics mailing list

http://lists.4th.com/listinfo/politics

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_vF8acFqzMvHyZSQeM2dchQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat May 2 21:57:43 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ100701PG2ML@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 21:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ100701PFQLS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 02 May 2009 21:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ1001014XZMU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 14:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ100ND14XZBS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 14:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE94ED33 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 14:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F18D15BB8 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 14:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6C62859A for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 14:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9E728599 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 14:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n42IXSjT027028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 14:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 14:33:26 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Breathalyzer source code decision To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <048726AF-C47A-4BEC-B5E7-78980DCA7DF0@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: BEF73C72-3747-11DE-A3C5-D9429349B7FB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49FC8B76.7060609@panix.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: wb8foz Date: May 2, 2009 2:05:42 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Breathalyzer source code decision The Minnesota Supreme Court has finally ruled (PDF) on the contentiou= s =20 issue of giving drunk driving defendants access to the Intoxilyer = =20 500EN source code. Defendants have repeatedly claimed that the device= s =20 are (or might be) flawed; since the machine's breath test results are= =20 one of the main bits of evidence against them, justice demands that = =20 they have the right to examine the device firmware for accuracy. The = =20 justices have agreed=97but only for defendants who have a reason for = =20 looking. Fishing expeditions don't qualify.... =2E.. Without the ability to produce the code, the state could find its = =20 drunk driving cases in jeopardy. Following the Brunner blueprint, = =20 defendants could simply submit the same report, demand access to the = =20 source code, and file for dismissal when they don't get it. The state= =20 is anxious not to have this happen and is currently suing CMI over th= e =20 issue; according to the Supreme Court, "at the time of oral arguments= , =20 the State and CMI were working toward a settlement to give DWI =20 [driving while intoxicated] defendants access to the source code afte= r =20 the State sued CMI on the basis that the State has property rights to= =20 the source code." -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat May 2 21:57:45 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ100701PG2ML@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 21:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ100701PFQLS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 02 May 2009 21:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ100A01G1WCW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 18:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ1007GFG1WHR@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 18:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A193E27CA2 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 18:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9405A10C8E9 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 18:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50110B38 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 18:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618F8B36 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 18:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n42MVojG027241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 18:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 18:31:49 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Cybersecurity Review Sets Turf Battle - WSJ.com To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <86B02AA4-7177-46C0-9482-B497C2F4D8B0@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_VhPJ/zVnOGGqCBTzgjwQVA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 09A44BCC-3769-11DE-A175-CDA29C3B801E X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_VhPJ/zVnOGGqCBTzgjwQVA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124113159891774733.html WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's cybersecurity review has ignited turf battles inside the White House, with economic adviser Lawrence Summers weighing in to prevent what he sees as a potential threat to economic growth, according to people familiar with the deliberations. During the presidential campaign, Mr. Obama said he would appoint a cybersecurity adviser who would report directly to him on efforts to secure U.S. computer networks against spies, criminals and terrorists. However, a White House review of cybersecurity policy has produced spirited debate on how high the adviser should rank and who should have veto power over his or her moves. A senior administration official called the debate an example of "creative tension," adding: "Far from being concerned about creative tension, I think this president and this team welcomes it...because, quite frankly, we've got to get this right." ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_VhPJ/zVnOGGqCBTzgjwQVA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

http://o= nline.wsj.com/article/SB124113159891774733.html

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's cybersecurity = review has ignited turf battles inside the White House, with economic= adviser Lawrence Summers weighing in to prevent what he sees as a po= tential threat to economic growth, according to people familiar with = the deliberations.

During the presidential campaign, Mr. Obama said he would ap= point a cybersecurity adviser who would report directly to him on eff= orts to secure U.S. computer networks against spies, criminals and te= rrorists.

= However, a White House review of cybersecurity policy has produced sp= irited debate on how high the adviser should rank and who should have= veto power over his or her moves. A senior administration official c= alled the debate an example of "creative tension," adding: "Far from = being concerned about creative tension, I think this president and th= is team welcomes it...because, quite frankly, we've got to get this r= ight."

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_VhPJ/zVnOGGqCBTzgjwQVA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat May 2 21:57:47 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ100701PG2ML@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 21:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ100701PFQLS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 02 May 2009 21:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ100F01INLTV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 19:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ100EGWINL1T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 19:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BA0DE3E8 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 19:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A249151A2 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 19:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A50C2461C for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 19:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B95D2461B for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 19:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n42NTHfH027749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 19:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 19:29:17 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <222EEC67-8586-4567-85BC-B4463E45701E@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 10D2AB70-3771-11DE-ACB0-B72A6DC48767 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: May 1, 2009 11:26:26 PM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking April 29, 2009 How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking By Fred Goldstein ionary Consulting We like to think that the course of progress is dictated by scientifi= c =20 discovery, and by the work done by technologists and engineers to put= =20 it to practical use. But the dirty little secret of the =20 telecommunications and networking industry is that it=92s driven less= by =20 technical reality and more by a drive to work around regulatory =20 absurdities. We have become so accustomed to this way of doing =20 business that we don=92t even notice what should be obvious! This is = =20 particularly true for the United States, but as the world=92s largest= =20 market, it sets much of the direction for everyone else. Pretty much everything in the Internet sector owes its existence to = =20 some foolish rule or another, either directly or indirectly. The most= =20 telling case is the status of the Internet itself, as well as the = =20 status of =93IP-enabled services=94 such as Voice over IP (VoIP). Put= it =20 next to the telecom industry, the historically-regulated common =20 carriers, and see how the two deal with each other, and the ironies = =20 become clear. Telecom Was A Fantasy World Of Monopoly For most of its life, the telecom industry was simply the telephone = =20 industry, primarily offering voice service across a ubiquitous, =20 regulated network. When Bell=92s patents expired in 1893, the industr= y =20 became very competitive. Eventually, AT&T managed to create a system = =20 of territorial exclusivity, and by the time the Communication Act of = =20 1934 was passed, there was no competition left. So the regulations of= =20 the day locked in the monopoly. Once competition is prohibited, prices can more easily deviate wildly= =20 =66rom costs. Regulators liked the monopoly because it let them =20 constrain the price of basic residential local service. =93Residual = =20 pricing=94 was one such regulatory scheme, to maximize monopoly profi= ts =20 wherever possible so that the basic residential rate only had to cove= r =20 the residue, not all of its own costs. State regulators were even = =20 adopting residual pricing plans into the 1990s. No wonder so many = =20 opposed every move to open up competition, from Carterfone (which = =20 allowed customers to attach their own equipment to telephone lines, = =20 rather than just rent from the phone company) to long distance and = =20 then local competition. And many tradition-minded regulators were = =20 uncomfortable with the Internet itself, which lived in a free-market = =20 cocoon of its own. Vertical Integration Bound Facilities To Services Another part of telecom policy was the coupling of physical facilitie= s =20 to the services that used them. Telephone wires were owned by the = =20 service provider, and were only designed, or upgraded, as that servic= e =20 provider saw fit. This vertical integration was not an issue when the= =20 one service that really mattered was Plain Old Telephone Service. In = =20 that era, the main issue was balancing the price of calls vs. the = =20 price of the line itself. Only a small portion of the actual cost of = =20 telephone service is usage sensitive. Long distance calls, and in som= e =20 places local calls, were priced far above cost, in order to subsidize= =20 the fixed price of local service and pay for the expensive wires up o= n =20 the poles and under the streets. This service-driven model quietly started to fall apart in the 1980s = =20 when fiber optics became practical. Fiber changed the key economics. = =20 Up until then, high-capacity services were very expensive to =20 provision, so they had to be expensive. Even a measly copper T1 =20 circuit, 1.5 megabits, leased for thousands per month. A strand of = =20 fiber was far more versatile, and had enough capacity to =93bypass= =94 many =20 billable phone calls. Fiber could have been seen as infrastructure, = =20 but that was not compatible with a service-driven business model. Crippling The Promise Of Fiber One group of telco people, the engineers, got together in the 1980s t= o =20 figure out how to light up the fiber that they assumed would be =20 brought to most homes by end of the century. The ITU standards =20 committees came up with a concept called Broadband ISDN, and develope= d =20 a core technology for it called ATM. But the engineers had no say in = =20 how to charge for it. That was someone else=92s problem, and those su= its =20 turned out to not have a good answer at all. If high-bandwidth =20 services could be priced at a level that would stimulate demand, then= =20 existing low-bandwidth cash cow services might lose revenues to them,= =20 a process known as cannibalization. I know the irony well: I was on a B-ISDN standards committee, =20 representing Digital Equipment Corp., at the time a computer industry= =20 giant. They too worried about cannibalization. In the 1980s, their VA= X =20 minicomputer line was very profitable, but then cheap commodity PCs = =20 became available. Digital didn=92t want to cannibalize high-margin VA= X =20 sales with low-margin PCs, so they avoided the PC business. Of course= =20 this didn=92t stop others from killing their high-margin business. If= =20 you don=92t cannibalize yourself, somebody else will. And Digital= =92s =20 estate is now owned (via Compaq) by one of its former competitors, = =20 Hewlett-Packard, who learned to deal with the new realities rather = =20 than deny them. [snip]RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun May 3 21:16:57 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I85C1@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I80BL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ200201IFYSI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ2000B9IFYZI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E59D827EB0 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E57110C8C for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D07928438 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B1528436 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n43CMDID004542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 08:22:12 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Replacing Journalism: New Foundations for Expertise, Diversity, and Debate To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3B0D9746-38CB-4CE0-A472-BEBA1EFC611C@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 0AF266D4-37DD-11DE-86C8-B3B832D0F4A1 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <16917399.617811241346046694.JavaMail.root@ball.east.ora.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Andy Oram Date: May 3, 2009 6:20:46 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Replacing Journalism: New Foundations for Expertise, Diversity, and Debate http://www.praxagora.com/andyo/article/journalism_foundations.html The system in this article isn't a comprehensive replacement for all the roles played by newspapers and news magazines. I've just isolated three key traits we seek in journalism--expertise, diversity, and debate--and suggest how we might elicit them from the general public without mediation by journalists. The exercise is an example of the kind of practice that could emerge from a combination of new technologies and new habits. Journalism presents facts and opinions in a manner that helps us make critical decisions, individually and as a collective. If professionals can no longer serve us with the necessary research, analysis, and filtering, we must use other sources and incentives to cultivate the three traits I listed in the title. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Andy Oram O'Reilly Media email: andyo@oreilly.com Editor 10 Fawcett Street, Fourth Floor voice: 617-499-7479 Cambridge, MA 02138-1175, USA fax: 617-661-1116 identi.ca/twitter:praxagora http://www.praxagora.com/andyo/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun May 3 21:16:58 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I85C1@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I80BL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ200401IZSE5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ2000IXIZSZI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33BA9278C7 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8A5112FB1 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4589223216 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E56523214 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n43CUB2R009235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 08:30:09 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2DF6B92C-6605-4C17-A7E2-7D08F4F7B386@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 26AF8996-37DE-11DE-93B6-FF69990AE8E9 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <03c801c9cb82$7396a7d0$5ac3f770$@com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Amy Wohl" Date: May 2, 2009 8:02:29 PM EDT To: Subject: RE: [IP] How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking I would like to thank DeWayne Hendricks ( Fred Goldstein djf_) for the fine history lesson, especially the part about he who is not willing to eat his own children gets to watch someone else do the job for him. I once had Digital as a valued client -- need I say more? I can recall a meeting with Ken Olsen where I asked Ken (whom I thought was wonderful) why he didn't believe PC's were going to succeed (we were already in the mid-80's by then). He replied, "Because they're so expensive." I believe he meant relative to DEC VAXes. I wanted to snap back, "You mean, DEC PCs are so expensive," because they were incredibly over-engineered and over-priced, but I couldn't say that to him. It's very hard to participate in the next round of a market you've been a leading player in. The reason IBM succeeded in the PC market (for a little while) was they were determined not to repeat their mistakes in the minicomputer market. But then they did it all over again in the client/server market. It's hard to give up high margin products. The only way to avoid it is to nimbly keep reinventing markets and being a premium innovator in each new market -- ask Apple. Amy D. Wohl Editor, Amy Wohl's Opinions 40 Old Lancaster Road, #608 Merion, Station, PA 19066 610-667-4842 amy@wohl.com www.wohl.com -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 7:29 PM To: ip Subject: [IP] How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: May 1, 2009 11:26:26 PM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking April 29, 2009 How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking By Fred Goldstein ionary Consulting We like to think that the course of progress is dictated by scientific discovery, and by the work done by technologists and engineers to put it to practical use. But the dirty little secret of the telecommunications and networking industry is that it's driven less by technical reality and more by a drive to work around regulatory absurdities. We have become so accustomed to this way of doing business that we don't even notice what should be obvious! This is particularly true for the United States, but as the world's largest market, it sets much of the direction for everyone else. Pretty much everything in the Internet sector owes its existence to some foolish rule or another, either directly or indirectly. The most telling case is the status of the Internet itself, as well as the status of "IP-enabled services" such as Voice over IP (VoIP). Put it next to the telecom industry, the historically-regulated common carriers, and see how the two deal with each other, and the ironies become clear. Telecom Was A Fantasy World Of Monopoly For most of its life, the telecom industry was simply the telephone industry, primarily offering voice service across a ubiquitous, regulated network. When Bell's patents expired in 1893, the industry became very competitive. Eventually, AT&T managed to create a system of territorial exclusivity, and by the time the Communication Act of 1934 was passed, there was no competition left. So the regulations of the day locked in the monopoly. Once competition is prohibited, prices can more easily deviate wildly from costs. Regulators liked the monopoly because it let them constrain the price of basic residential local service. "Residual pricing" was one such regulatory scheme, to maximize monopoly profits wherever possible so that the basic residential rate only had to cover the residue, not all of its own costs. State regulators were even adopting residual pricing plans into the 1990s. No wonder so many opposed every move to open up competition, from Carterfone (which allowed customers to attach their own equipment to telephone lines, rather than just rent from the phone company) to long distance and then local competition. And many tradition-minded regulators were uncomfortable with the Internet itself, which lived in a free-market cocoon of its own. Vertical Integration Bound Facilities To Services Another part of telecom policy was the coupling of physical facilities to the services that used them. Telephone wires were owned by the service provider, and were only designed, or upgraded, as that service provider saw fit. This vertical integration was not an issue when the one service that really mattered was Plain Old Telephone Service. In that era, the main issue was balancing the price of calls vs. the price of the line itself. Only a small portion of the actual cost of telephone service is usage sensitive. Long distance calls, and in some places local calls, were priced far above cost, in order to subsidize the fixed price of local service and pay for the expensive wires up on the poles and under the streets. This service-driven model quietly started to fall apart in the 1980s when fiber optics became practical. Fiber changed the key economics. Up until then, high-capacity services were very expensive to provision, so they had to be expensive. Even a measly copper T1 circuit, 1.5 megabits, leased for thousands per month. A strand of fiber was far more versatile, and had enough capacity to "bypass" many billable phone calls. Fiber could have been seen as infrastructure, but that was not compatible with a service-driven business model. Crippling The Promise Of Fiber One group of telco people, the engineers, got together in the 1980s to figure out how to light up the fiber that they assumed would be brought to most homes by end of the century. The ITU standards committees came up with a concept called Broadband ISDN, and developed a core technology for it called ATM. But the engineers had no say in how to charge for it. That was someone else's problem, and those suits turned out to not have a good answer at all. If high-bandwidth services could be priced at a level that would stimulate demand, then existing low-bandwidth cash cow services might lose revenues to them, a process known as cannibalization. I know the irony well: I was on a B-ISDN standards committee, representing Digital Equipment Corp., at the time a computer industry giant. They too worried about cannibalization. In the 1980s, their VAX minicomputer line was very profitable, but then cheap commodity PCs became available. Digital didn't want to cannibalize high-margin VAX sales with low-margin PCs, so they avoided the PC business. Of course this didn't stop others from killing their high-margin business. If you don't cannibalize yourself, somebody else will. And Digital's estate is now owned (via Compaq) by one of its former competitors, Hewlett-Packard, who learned to deal with the new realities rather than deny them. [snip]RSS Feed: ------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.9/2087 - Release Date: 05/02/09 14:23:00 -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun May 3 21:16:59 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I85C1@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I80BL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ200501J9J5O@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ200OLIJ9JJL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA83B27045 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B786C1126CA for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0053723230 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 118EF2322F for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n43CUB2S009235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 08:30:59 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <60638967-58BE-4673-B5FD-347298CC542D@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 43C08CCE-37DE-11DE-9074-F526D50D66F5 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200905030026.SAA17102@lariat.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Brett Glass Date: May 2, 2009 8:26:31 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net, "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] How Workarounds Drive Telecom and Networking Interestingly, history is repeating itself. Owners of fiber backbones -- such as Level3 -- are now refusing to sell "dark fiber" and are insisting upon selling services by the month. This practice (which, by the way, has hurt my own ISP severely; the local cable company got fiber before it started, and now we cannot) can only take place if the owner of the fiber has significant market power -- that is, if there is no alternative provider that WILL lease or sell dark fiber. Thus, it is a symptom of a tipping point -- the advent of dangerous concentration in the long haul fiber markets. With Qwest's long haul fiber backbone up for sale, we must be extremely cautious not to let this concentration increase and to find a way to reverse it a bit. If we do not, the backbone providers -- who are already strangling rural broadband providers by refusing to provide "on-ramps" -- will gain inordinate power over all telecommunications, including the Internet itself. --Brett Glass > Another part of telecom policy was the coupling of physical facilities > to the services that used them. Telephone wires were owned by the > service provider, and were only designed, or upgraded, as that service > provider saw fit. This vertical integration was not an issue when the > one service that really mattered was Plain Old Telephone Service. In > that era, the main issue was balancing the price of calls vs. the > price of the line itself. Only a small portion of the actual cost of > telephone service is usage sensitive. Long distance calls, and in some > places local calls, were priced far above cost, in order to subsidize > the fixed price of local service and pay for the expensive wires up on > the poles and under the streets. > > This service-driven model quietly started to fall apart in the 1980s > when fiber optics became practical. Fiber changed the key economics. > Up until then, high-capacity services were very expensive to > provision, so they had to be expensive. Even a measly copper T1 > circuit, 1.5 megabits, leased for thousands per month. A strand of > fiber was far more versatile, and had enough capacity to "bypass" many > billable phone calls. Fiber could have been seen as infrastructure, > but that was not compatible with a service-driven business model. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun May 3 21:17:00 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I85C1@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I80BL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ200P01PPV0Y@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ200MGAPPVPK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05EE8271D3 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC29B11387A for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCF92396F for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 10:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB932396E for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 10:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n43ExKEP010839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 10:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 10:59:20 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] My views on University life (dictated into my MAC) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: FD97B820-37F2-11DE-B087-F12CB58D8BC7 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 First some background from those who might not know. I entered university life after 15 years in industry, at Bell Labs, Rand Corporation and Scientific Data Systems. Having never gotten an earned doctorate, I do have an honorary doctorate,I was somewhat hesitant to enter the university life. I had taught evening classes at the Stevens Institute and at the University of California at Irvine. I was convinced to take the gamble and received an acting associate professorship at Irvine. This appointment required me to be promoted to tenure in two years or leave. In hindsight it was very adventurous and daring and maybe stupid for me to take this gamble with a new child and a new house. However I did. I have now been in university life for over 35 years as both a chaired professor, as a trustee, and as an observer. My appointments have always been in the engineering and computer science departments below I have had secondary appointments in the business school and the public policy arena. When I entered the University the main criteria for promotion and recognition was published articles in refereed journals and letters of reference from key people in the field. Being pragmatic institutions , universities also recognized funded research as indicative of recognition of good work. I behaved myself, at least at Irvine, and published a significant number of articles, got major funding for my research work and felt somewhat happy. I ran into some politics which I will not describe in this note which endangered my achieving tenure. However the fact that my research was to be renewed only if I remained as principal investigator seem to have carried the day. In many ways the university was not dissimilar to industry in its politics and its recognitions. Over the years I and others have fought hard to get a more flexible way of evaluating people for advancement. Recognition of the rapidity of work in this field has made journal publication less it important, although still historically valuable. We now pay much more attention to papers at conferences with good reputation general recognition by the field as a whole as well as funding etc.. I have noted that the politics involved in promotion is nowhere near what they used to be. Aside from the endless fight for funding the universities give one an opportunity that exists almost nowhere else in society. That is to try new ideas and see if they work. If they are outside of the normal path one may have to do it on a shoestring but you can do it. A main reason for this freedom is the tenure system. My observations are that there is a minimum amount of dead wood produced by the tenure system. Perhaps the reason is that people who are not self motivated are removed from the system during the first years. There is a constant striving for recognition and for knowledge. I have found very very few senior people who don't behave like brand-new assistant professors in their pursuit of knowledge. Remove the tenure system and unpopular ideas will be punished Mavericks will be eliminated and politics will abound. Tenure at most good universities is not granted without real care as to the likelihood of continued good work. One thing I have noticed in university however is a phenomenal enlargement of the bureaucracy. There are vice presidents assistant vice president's associate vice presidents etc.. A large amount of this bulk is due to enlist federal regulations as well as the natural tendency of organizations to expand. With all this bureaucracy and with all the Federal rules, it is still one of the best places in the world to work. As a faculty member I have no boss. I find it difficult to describe to industrial people that fact. They keep asking who's your boss would you report to. When I tell them I have no boss they are astonished. It is this freedom that allows innovation. Finally and these are I'm afraid random thoughts, I should note that the main task of the University is to supply educated citizens to the world. In the sciences, it is to train the thinking processes that go into creating innovation and discovery. I know of no way to do this except the apprentice system that we call graduate school. As I've often said my early days at Bell laboratories were marvelous in that I could work and learn from the leaders of my field. The same can be said to be true of graduate students at a good university in the sciences. Yes graduate students are used to teach classes, most good universities do not let them teach the lectures but it use them as teaching assistants carefully supervised by the faculty. Most good universities require their faculty to teach undergraduate courses as well as graduate courses in order to expose the undergraduates to good scientists. There are a lot of things that could be fixed at universities, the same could be just said to be true of almost all industry and certainly all government. Attempts to destroy a structure built over the years and validated at least in United States by its output would be damaging to the health of the nation and the world. If I had to do it all over again I would certainly follow the same path I have taken and I recommend to my students that they transition their careers at some point into service at universities. Dave -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun May 3 21:17:01 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I85C1@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I80BL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ3007017D4UH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ3006627D4HJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68405279DB for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C60117D37 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DD6A284CE for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A59C8284CC for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n43LGEoM015909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 17:16:14 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] An invention that could change the internet for ever To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <55900425-DA28-4AA3-B0B5-E8E3C39B607B@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: A42F46C4-3827-11DE-ACC9-8708ADDA4A43 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <5BAEF4CB-F4C5-4196-A900-23C6D9374910@warpspeed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: May 3, 2009 1:08:44 PM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] An invention that could change the internet fo= r =20 ever An invention that could change the internet for ever Revolutionary new web software could put giants such as Google in the= =20 shade when it comes out later this month. Andrew Johnson reports The biggest internet revolution for a generation will be unveiled thi= s =20 month with the launch of software that will understand questions and = =20 give specific, tailored answers in a way that the web has never =20 managed before. The new system, Wolfram Alpha, showcased at Harvard University in the= =20 US last week, takes the first step towards what many consider to be = =20 the internet's Holy Grail =96 a global store of information that = =20 understands and responds to ordinary language in the same way a perso= n =20 does. Although the system is still new, it has already produced massive = =20 interest and excitement among technology pundits and internet watcher= s. Computer experts believe the new search engine will be an evolutionar= y =20 leap in the development of the internet. Nova Spivack, an internet an= d =20 computer expert, said that Wolfram Alpha could prove just as importan= t =20 as Google. "It is really impressive and significant," he wrote. "In = =20 fact it may be as important for the web (and the world) as Google, bu= t =20 for a different purpose. Tom Simpson, of the blog Convergenceofeverything.com, said: "What are= =20 the wider implications exactly? A new paradigm for using computers an= d =20 the web? Probably. Emerging artificial intelligence and a step toward= s =20 a self-organising internet? Possibly... I think this could be big." Wolfram Alpha will not only give a straight answer to questions such = =20 as "how high is Mount Everest?", but it will also produce a neat page= =20 of related information =96 all properly sourced =96 such as geographi= cal =20 location and nearby towns, and other mountains, complete with graphs = =20 and charts. The real innovation, however, is in its ability to work things out "o= n =20 the fly", according to its British inventor, Dr Stephen Wolfram. If = =20 you ask it to compare the height of Mount Everest to the length of th= e =20 Golden Gate Bridge, it will tell you. Or ask what the weather was lik= e =20 in London on the day John F Kennedy was assassinated, it will cross-= =20 check and provide the answer. Ask it about D sharp major, it will pla= y =20 the scale. Type in "10 flips for four heads" and it will guess that = =20 you need to know the probability of coin-tossing. If you want to know= =20 when the next solar eclipse over Chicago is, or the exact current = =20 location of the International Space Station, it can work it out. [snip]RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun May 3 21:17:02 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I85C1@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I80BL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300C0190384@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ3005L5903SH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25F872708B for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 18:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1654E11A2C0 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 18:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7442521A for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85ED8219 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:56:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n43LuTLh016394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 17:56:29 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: My views on University life (dictated into my MAC) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 43EF45BA-382D-11DE-8C8A-E1B22FF77732 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49FE059D.3030909@cavebear.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Karl Auerbach Date: May 3, 2009 4:59:09 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] My views on University life (dictated into my MAC) David Farber wrote: > Finally and these are I'm afraid random thoughts, I should note that > the main task of the University is to supply educated citizens to > the world. In this you have been a success. I am one of the indirect beneficiaries of your work: One of your students, Frank Heinrich, passed on to me an idea that he learned while working with you - the idea that a network is not simply a collection of separate machines but, rather, a complex distributed process. I am very glad that I had the benefit of receiving that idea; it is a concept that has become the core aspect of my thoughts about the internet. --karl-- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun May 3 21:17:03 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I85C1@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I80BL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300401H06AS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 20:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ3002F9H063Q@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 20:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A46527A14 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 20:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B39711C771 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 20:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5252D2802C for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 20:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF1222802B for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 20:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n440n5Vd022120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 20:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 20:49:05 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: An invention that could change the internet for ever To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <9CDCAE60-CFFF-4F19-8971-91A7CC486D25@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 62CDE546-3845-11DE-BCD9-E798BC842C6B X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Michael Collins Date: May 3, 2009 7:05:28 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] An invention that could change the internet for eve= r Dave, A reference to Wolfram Alpha by somebody who knows what they're =20 talking about and has used it: http://www.semanticuniverse.com/blogs-i-was-positively-impressed-wolf= ram-alpha.html On May 3, 2009, at 5:16 PM, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) > Date: May 3, 2009 1:08:44 PM EDT > To: Dewayne-Net Technology List > Subject: [Dewayne-Net] An invention that could change the internet = =20 > for ever > > An invention that could change the internet for ever > Revolutionary new web software could put giants such as Google in = =20 > the shade when it comes out later this month. Andrew Johnson report= s > > > The biggest internet revolution for a generation will be unveiled = =20 > this month with the launch of software that will understand =20 > questions and give specific, tailored answers in a way that the web= =20 > has never managed before. > > The new system, Wolfram Alpha, showcased at Harvard University in = =20 > the US last week, takes the first step towards what many consider t= o =20 > be the internet's Holy Grail =96 a global store of information that= =20 > understands and responds to ordinary language in the same way a = =20 > person does. > > Although the system is still new, it has already produced massive = =20 > interest and excitement among technology pundits and internet =20 > watchers. > > Computer experts believe the new search engine will be an =20 > evolutionary leap in the development of the internet. Nova Spivack,= =20 > an internet and computer expert, said that Wolfram Alpha could prov= e =20 > just as important as Google. "It is really impressive and =20 > significant," he wrote. "In fact it may be as important for the web= =20 > (and the world) as Google, but for a different purpose. > > Tom Simpson, of the blog Convergenceofeverything.com, said: "What = =20 > are the wider implications exactly? A new paradigm for using =20 > computers and the web? Probably. Emerging artificial intelligence = =20 > and a step towards a self-organising internet? Possibly... I think = =20 > this could be big." > > Wolfram Alpha will not only give a straight answer to questions suc= h =20 > as "how high is Mount Everest?", but it will also produce a neat = =20 > page of related information =96 all properly sourced =96 such as = =20 > geographical location and nearby towns, and other mountains, =20 > complete with graphs and charts. > > The real innovation, however, is in its ability to work things out = =20 > "on the fly", according to its British inventor, Dr Stephen Wolfram= . =20 > If you ask it to compare the height of Mount Everest to the length = =20 > of the Golden Gate Bridge, it will tell you. Or ask what the weathe= r =20 > was like in London on the day John F Kennedy was assassinated, it = =20 > will cross-check and provide the answer. Ask it about D sharp major= , =20 > it will play the scale. Type in "10 flips for four heads" and it = =20 > will guess that you need to know the probability of coin-tossing. I= f =20 > you want to know when the next solar eclipse over Chicago is, or th= e =20 > exact current location of the International Space Station, it can = =20 > work it out. > > [snip]RSS Feed: > > > > > ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun May 3 21:17:04 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I85C1@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300701I80BL@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 03 May 2009 21:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300501HKHPR@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ3001DMHKHAG@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DD5B39 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A8780C for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 734ED80B for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n4415Xoh022511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 21:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 21:05:33 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Why I picked University life (dictated into my MAC) If To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <0FCE58FB-6008-42E5-9EEE-F8CA85DEDE14@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: AE07B7BA-3847-11DE-BA1C-E3E81B1EC6B3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Sometimes I look back and wonder why I chose the academic path. In my early years I had my pick of almost any organization in the United States to go to. I think what became the most important issue to me was the interaction I had with students. Every four years a new set of students arrive. Many of these students would challenge my ideas and my directions and often, at least occasionally :-) ,they were correct. They kept me young intellectually and help me inspect fields of research that I would never have attempted. Many of my graduate students especially have been non-standard in the sense that a normal graduate admissions procedure would have rejected them period!! Many of the undergraduates that I worked with were motivated, hopefully by my impact, to go on and get advanced degrees and to do exceptionally well in their chosen fields. I insisted and continued to insist that students choose their own research directions. I will certainly suggest to them interesting topics but I'd rather them find topics that they think are interesting and then to convince me that in fact they should work on those topics. I try to teach them, hopefully by example, how researcher operates. When I was at Bell laboratories, often potential employees would have no real idea of what they were going to do once they completed their thesis. I wanted my students to understand how to find problems . One of the greatest rewards I've had is to sit on a panel at a good conference with the other panelist including two or three of my former students. I also take pride in a comment that one of my better students made to me several years after he graduated. He said when he graduated he was not sure what I contributed to his research. He then said after several years he realized what I had done and how I had helped him and molded him and he hoped he could do the same for his future students. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon May 4 07:37:45 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ400G01AYQ19@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 07:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ400G01AYK10@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 04 May 2009 07:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ300J01X5S8M@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 02:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ300GDXX5SYK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 02:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 653F227B81 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 02:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E8125A83 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 02:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A63228F15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 02:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52B2C28F13 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 02:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n446Z6bv027668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 02:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 02:35:06 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Why I picked University life (dictated into my MAC) If To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Listbox-UUID: BD7FF8FA-3875-11DE-9D46-E4D85A1F5864 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <99b1c00c0905031909j536ab0aex9f1d2c95f5931dba@mail.gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Dave Wilson Date: May 3, 2009 10:09:38 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Why I picked University life (dictated into my MAC) If As a former journalist (I mention that I'm a former journalist to make clear that I'm not sucking up and looking for good quotes in the future ;-) ) I'd like to note your wonderful and continuing commitment to help reporters -- and thus the voters -- understand complex issues. People don't realize how important is for reporters to be able to reach people who are knowledgeable, articulate, and authoritative; your educational influence has gone well beyond your students sir. -dave On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:05 PM, David Farber wrote: > Sometimes I look back and wonder why I chose the academic path. In > my early > years I had my pick of almost any organization in the United States > to go > to. I think what became the most important issue to me was the > interaction I > had with students. Every four years a new set of students arrive. > Many of > these students would challenge my ideas and my directions and > often, at > least occasionally :-) ,they were correct. They kept me young > intellectually > and help me inspect fields of research that I would never have > attempted. > > Many of my graduate students especially have been non-standard in > the sense > that a normal graduate admissions procedure would have rejected them > period!! Many of the undergraduates that I worked with were motivated, > hopefully by my impact, to go on and get advanced degrees and to do > exceptionally well in their chosen fields. I insisted and continued to > insist that students choose their own research directions. I will > certainly > suggest to them interesting topics but I'd rather them find topics > that they > think are interesting and then to convince me that in fact they > should work > on those topics. > > I try to teach them, hopefully by example, how researcher operates. > When I > was at Bell laboratories, often potential employees would have no > real idea > of what they were going to do once they completed their thesis. I > wanted my > students to understand how to find problems . > > One of the greatest rewards I've had is to sit on a panel at a good > conference with the other panelist including two or three of my > former > students. I also take pride in a comment that one of my better > students made > to me several years after he graduated. He said when he graduated he > was not > sure what I contributed to his research. He then said after several > years he > realized what I had done and how I had helped him and molded him > and he > hoped he could do the same for his future students. > > > ------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon May 4 19:42:04 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ5004018HZDZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ5004018HUDU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 04 May 2009 19:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ400101MYL37@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ400MBRMYKR0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4742D274F8 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 12:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E01926EE6 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 12:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87EFE2812A for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E90B28127 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n44FuaeZ016529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:56:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 11:56:35 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] An unusual denial of service attack To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <66921B81-4B83-4DD0-8C08-6D2459828A1B@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 28FFC4D6-38C4-11DE-94B1-F4216E3412D6 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200905041515.JAA09814@lariat.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Brett Glass Date: May 4, 2009 11:07:50 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net, "Ip ip" Subject: An unusual denial of service attack Dave, and everyone: This weekend, my ISP suffered an unusual sort of denial of service attack. Starting on Saturday morning, users were reporting that their Web browsing had slowed to a crawl, though other services were working properly. I investigated, and saw that our upstream connection to the Internet backbone was being saturated -- but not by any one customer. So, I looked at the statistics on our Web cache (an activity, by the way, which I'm sure that certain privacy advocates would find tantamount to "snooping," even though it was for the purpose of managing the network). After awhile, I was able to figure out what was wrong. We were facing a distributed denial of service attack from the world's largest "botnet:" Microsoft's "Windows Update." Virtually every Windows machine on our network -- and most of our customers's machines are running Windows XP or Windows Vista -- was individually downloading many large updates. (See http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=printArticleBasic&taxonomyName=Security&articleId=9131573&taxonomyId=17 for a list of some of the many security holes that were being patched.) Fixing holes in Windows is a good thing, but to command more than 90% of all of the computers around the globe to "phone home" at the same time is, obviously, not. It's doubly bad when the updates are explicitly marked as non-cacheable, making our Web cache of no use to stem the flood. What's worse -- at least for our small ISP -- is that the updates are distributed for Microsoft by a company called Akamai. Akamai, as many of you know, places caches at the hubs of many ISPs' networks -- but, alas, only those of larger ones. Our smaller ISP, which has never been able to convince Akamai to place a cache at our location despite many years of requests, therefore must use backbone bandwidth to service all of these redundant requests. When I checked -- and it was not at the peak -- the traffic was consuming about half of our main DS-3 line to the Internet, leaving only half of its capacity available to carry all other traffic (including VoIP and bandwidth-intensive streaming video). Our cache's CPU utilization was above 95%, slowing response times still further. I solved the problem by telling the cache to throttle traffic to and from Akamai's upstream caches, which were serving up the updates. Instantly, the load dropped off and normal service was restored. As Spider-Man creator Stan Lee once noted, "with great power comes great responsibility." Microsoft, by virtue of its control over Windows-based PCs, has the ability to shut down the entire Internet at will -- and must be careful not to do it, inadvertently, by turning 90% of the world's PCs into a "zombie army." Furthermore, content delivery networks such as Akamai, which distributes Microsoft's updates, must not be allowed to discriminate against smaller providers by making updates uncacheable (at least by a standards-conforming Web cache) and then denying smaller ISPs access to a cache that WILL cache them. (Google, too, is also placing caches at the hubs of larger ISPs, thus giving them an edge when it comes to delivering Google services and video.) Small and competitive ISPs already have a tough row to hoe when competing with the telcos and cable companies. If they are further disadvantaged by prejudicial business practices of content providers and content delivery networks, Internet service will -- devastatingly for consumers -- become a duopoly. --Brett Glass -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon May 4 19:42:05 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ5004018HZDZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ5004018HUDU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 04 May 2009 19:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ400201N8S8U@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 12:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ400MDSN8SIO@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 12:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8BC727EDD for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 12:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B477D12B17 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 12:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424DF24EFD for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 12:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3A6224EFA for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 12:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n44G0YYl016975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 12:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 12:00:33 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] EU urges Internet governance revamp To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <79FB895A-6FB0-4C31-A52F-0F64FF14D642@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: B59444EE-38C4-11DE-B1D7-AE0E0DB277D1 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <6EF0EB39-29F4-494C-9F1F-1FDA229479EB@warpspeed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: May 4, 2009 8:43:43 AM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] EU urges Internet governance revamp EU URGES INTERNET GOVERNANCE REVAMP The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), the body in charge of assigning Internet addresses such as .com and .net, should be shorn of its US government links and made fully independent, the European Union's information society chief said on Monday. ICANN is a not-for-profit organization set up in 1998 but operates under the aegis of the U.S. Department of Commerce, a set-up that raises concerns for some as the Internet is seen as belonging to a wider constituency. Pressure in the past on ICANN from right-wing politicians to stop .xxx from becoming a domain name for pornography, worried some policymakers. ICANN's operating agreement with the U.S. government expires at the end of September. Courtesy of the Benton Foundation RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon May 4 19:42:06 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ5004018HZDZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ5004018HUDU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 04 May 2009 19:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ400L01RZFR8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 13:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ400JCMRZF1C@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 13:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E47C27023 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 13:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B1381237B9 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 13:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DC8B24867 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 13:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8FB24863 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 13:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n44HhH9m022223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 13:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 13:43:16 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: EU urges Internet governance revamp To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 0F8B93B8-38D3-11DE-88C9-C005640FFF37 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090504162414.GC22205@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: May 4, 2009 12:24:14 PM EDT To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] EU urges Internet governance revamp Dave, Without getting into the specifics of the EU's complaint, I believe it's very important to note that many of us in the community feel that a fetish-like concentration on opening up more TLDs is counterproductive and diverts attention from much more critical Internet issues. There is every evidence that as more TLDs appear the main result is extortion-like attempts to force protective registrations by existing firms in the new top level domains (whether they really want to or not), and an *increase* in the value of dot-com since it stands out even more in the public's mind against the clutter of new TLDs. Also, to suggest that dot-ex-ex-ex was derailed merely by "right wing politicians" is totally erroneous. There were many elements of the community -- including free speech advocates and even the adult entertainment industry at large, who were opposed. My view of this was explained in: Open Letter: Why "Dot-Ex-Ex-Ex" is for Chumps http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000152.html --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenweinstein - - - On 05/04 12:00, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) > Date: May 4, 2009 8:43:43 AM EDT > To: Dewayne-Net Technology List > Subject: [Dewayne-Net] EU urges Internet governance revamp > > EU URGES INTERNET GOVERNANCE REVAMP > > The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), the > body in charge of assigning Internet addresses such as .com and .net, > should be shorn of its US government links and made fully independent, > the European Union's information society chief said on Monday. ICANN > is a > not-for-profit organization set up in 1998 but operates under the > aegis > of the U.S. Department of Commerce, a set-up that raises concerns for > some as the Internet is seen as belonging to a wider constituency. > Pressure in the past on ICANN from right-wing politicians to stop .xxx > from becoming a domain name for pornography, worried some > policymakers. > ICANN's operating agreement with the U.S. government expires at the > end > of September. > > > > Courtesy of the Benton Foundation > RSS Feed: > > > > > ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon May 4 19:42:07 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ5004018HZDZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ5004018HUDU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 04 May 2009 19:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ50000173BT6@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ500ODY73B0H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D67E27BA2 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7034263E8 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF266474 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB18472 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n44NBfMR027820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 19:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 19:11:42 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] WORTH READING EU urges Internet governance revamp To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: F001E6C2-3900-11DE-8656-ED45712E23FC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <49FF408A.3040504@cavebear.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Karl Auerbach Date: May 4, 2009 3:22:50 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] EU urges Internet governance revamp David Farber wrote: > EU URGES INTERNET GOVERNANCE REVAMP > ... (ICANN), the body in charge of assigning Internet addresses such > as .com and .net, should be shorn of its US government links and > made fully independent, First, in response to Lauren W. - we may disagree on whether net top level domains are useful. However, I think we can agree that any body that can say "no" and thus deny existence to any lawful innovation or idea is a body that must not operate by subjective principles. And operation by capricious and subjective principles is exactly what ICANN's top level domain process has been. But back to the main issue of ICANN free from US gov't oversight: I understand the feeling of the EU (and other nations) about US hegemony. But one has to ask whether the EU's position is more a reaction to the US position than it is to a desire for better internet governance. ICANN is a body that exists to benefit the public. But it does not do so. Rather than being an engine of public benefit ICANN seems to be more an engine of public harm. ICANN imposes a direct cost on internet users to a tune of nearly a billion dollars a year, every year, in excessive and unjustifiable domain name costs. And ICANN has eliminated competitive forces and expelled innovation from a large part of the internet marketplace. And what amounts to a private law of the internet has been created by ICANN that elevates intellectual property to a supreme position well beyond the enactments of any national legislature. ICANN's structure is such that it essentially excludes the public from the processes through which ICANN makes decisions. When ICANN was formed the US Gov't and the community of internet users were promised that the public would chose a majority of ICANN's board of directors. Today the public chooses not even one Director. As a practical matter ICANN's serves certain selected industrial interests. ICANN, operates like a medieval trade guild or a modern combination in restraint of trade. In ICANN intellectual property interests and incumbent providers collaborate to set prices, define products and terms of sales, and prevent the entry of new providers. People who are willing to engage in lawful enterprises and risking their own money have been denied by ICANN. The internet has come under a lex-ICANNia, a regime in which ICANN has created rules of trademark-over-anything-else. ICANN is also being pressured, and has on at least one occasion, acceded to national political pressures to restrain internet content. This combination of trademark protection, non-offensive domain name semantics, and ICANN mandated business practices heralds a new kind of internet AUP - Appropriate Use Policy - that is slowly being imposed upon non-consenting internet users. ICANN's mission has drifted from that of assuring the technical stability of the domain name system and IP address spaces to a body that engages barely at all with technical coordination and almost entirely with the regulation of business, intellectual property, and economic practices. And that alternate mission is growing rapidly: ICANN's budget is on an accelerating up-curve that will soon make ICANN the size of the ITU. ICANN has improved of late. For example ICANN is making noises about allowing a glimmer of real public participation. And ICANN has begun to suggest that it might perhaps begin to pick up some of its intended role as a protector of internet technical stability. But these steps are largely unfulfilled and exist as expressions for a possible future, not as histories of tasks completed. All of this suggests that it would be rude for the US Government to relinquish its already tenuous oversight until ICANN reformulates itself to be a body that serves the public interest and is accountable to the public. The first step for this would be for ICANN's Board of Directors to be chosen by those for whose benefit ICANN exists - the community of internet users. The second step would be for those directors to recognize that they are in ultimate charge of ICANN and the best word in their arsenal is "no". The third step would be a retreat of ICANN back to its intended role as a coordinator of technical matters in DNS and IP address spaces to promote the technical stability of the internet - which, for the domain name system, I define thus: The efficient, speedy, and accurate translation of DNS query packets into DNS response packets without prejudice for or against any query source or query name. The forth step would be to re-open those things that ICANN that go beyond its proper role. By this I mean, for example, that ICANN should re-open its UDRP, ICANN's private law of trademark-over-other-speech and the ICANN created system of courts to apply that law. I have read ICANN's preliminary strategies for moving beyond US. These strategies do not create a shining example of corporate transparency and accountability but, instead, create an even more muddy system of multiple entities in multiple countries operating under multiple and inconsistent laws. ICANN governs through contracts. And some of those contracts would remain under US/California law and other contracts for virtually identical relationships would be under Swiss law. The ICANN that resulted would be a model of impenetrability. I would suggest that the EU and other countries not take the easy road of saying to the US "set ICANN free" but, instead say, precisely and in concrete terms, how that can be done so that the resulting body is more accountable, transparent, and open than the existing ICANN. --karl-- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Tue May 5 07:48:09 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ600F016466C@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 07:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ600F016424Y@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Tue, 05 May 2009 07:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ500A01AHAHH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 20:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ5005DRAHA6W@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 20:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19972386 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 20:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183082449D for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 20:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367E92449A for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 20:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n450Rbrw006019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 20:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 20:27:37 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] F.T.C. Looks Into Ties Between Apple and Google Boards - NYTimes.com To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <308F3EEB-2F8A-4A72-B42D-CECF925B8BB7@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_3bi77Wvbf3TN0RHRypOfbg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 8B033B62-390B-11DE-89DD-FF30ABBDBB17 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_3bi77Wvbf3TN0RHRypOfbg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/technology/companies/05apple.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_3bi77Wvbf3TN0RHRypOfbg) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/technology/companies/05apple.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

--Boundary_(ID_3bi77Wvbf3TN0RHRypOfbg)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 09:02:56 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80030148N0B@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80020148JZW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ600E01CUJNJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ6008JYCUJEC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7278284F5 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D819F2634A for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D20552 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D754E for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n45ECN7h020776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 10:12:30 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: An unusual denial of service attack To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <8EB8C370-AE58-4028-9826-2D92AA14A0AB@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_6KvjU56YFY5BC2J9Rg96Jg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: C4185360-397E-11DE-8646-E26AF575B07F X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_6KvjU56YFY5BC2J9Rg96Jg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Benjamin Black Date: May 5, 2009 5:56:53 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] An unusual denial of service attack Dave, This has been a concern to many folks, inside and outside Microsoft, for several years now. Solving it is non-trivial as slowing down or otherwise pacing the delivery of updates can mean critical security vulnerabilities remain unpatched for days longer. One attractive solution is the use of peer protocols. Though I failed to make much headway in that direction, I remain optimistic something more efficient than the current thundering herd will come along. That will present a new set of trade-offs as many folks, Brett included, dislike the impact of peer protocols on their networks, as well. As a former member of the team responsible for building Microsoft's CDN, I suggest Brett take a closer look at the traffic. He might notice that the traffic is being served from up to 4 different CDNs. He might also notice that the vast majority of Akamai traffic comes from a very small number of data centers, as is the case for any modern, efficient CDN. Lots of tiny caches everywhere makes for good marketing but bad business. The typical approach is for ISPs to peer with the CDNs directly. Brett mentions having his own caches, but being unable to make use of them because of cache-control headers from the CDNs. Has he considered simply ignoring those headers? I can't recommend mucking about with Windows Update, but it might provide some relief. Ben On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:56 AM, David Farber wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Brett Glass Date: May 4, 2009 11:07:50 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net, "Ip ip" Subject: An unusual denial of service attack Dave, and everyone: This weekend, my ISP suffered an unusual sort of denial of service attack. Starting on Saturday morning, users were reporting that their Web browsing had slowed to a crawl, though other services were working properly. I investigated, and saw that our upstream connection to the Internet backbone was being saturated -- but not by any one customer. So, I looked at the statistics on our Web cache (an activity, by the way, which I'm sure that certain privacy advocates would find tantamount to "snooping," even though it was for the purpose of managing the network). After awhile, I was able to figure out what was wrong. We were facing a distributed denial of service attack from the world's largest "botnet:" Microsoft's "Windows Update." Virtually every Windows machine on our network -- and most of our customers's machines are running Windows XP or Windows Vista -- was individually downloading many large updates. (See http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=printArticleBasic&taxonomyName=Security&articleId=9131573&taxonomyId=17 for a list of some of the many security holes that were being patched.) Fixing holes in Windows is a good thing, but to command more than 90% of all of the computers around the globe to "phone home" at the same time is, obviously, not. It's doubly bad when the updates are explicitly marked as non-cacheable, making our Web cache of no use to stem the flood. What's worse -- at least for our small ISP -- is that the updates are distributed for Microsoft by a company called Akamai. Akamai, as many of you know, places caches at the hubs of many ISPs' networks -- but, alas, only those of larger ones. Our smaller ISP, which has never been able to convince Akamai to place a cache at our location despite many years of requests, therefore must use backbone bandwidth to service all of these redundant requests. When I checked -- and it was not at the peak -- the traffic was consuming about half of our main DS-3 line to the Internet, leaving only half of its capacity available to carry all other traffic (including VoIP and bandwidth-intensive streaming video). Our cache's CPU utilization was above 95%, slowing response times still further. I solved the problem by telling the cache to throttle traffic to and from Akamai's upstream caches, which were serving up the updates. Instantly, the load dropped off and normal service was restored. As Spider-Man creator Stan Lee once noted, "with great power comes great responsibility." Microsoft, by virtue of its control over Windows-based PCs, has the ability to shut down the entire Internet at will -- and must be careful not to do it, inadvertently, by turning 90% of the world's PCs into a "zombie army." Furthermore, content delivery networks such as Akamai, which distributes Microsoft's updates, must not be allowed to discriminate against smaller providers by making updates uncacheable (at least by a standards-conforming Web cache) and then denying smaller ISPs access to a cache that WILL cache them. (Google, too, is also placing caches at the hubs of larger ISPs, thus giving them an edge when it comes to delivering Google services and video.) Small and competitive ISPs already have a tough row to hoe when competing with the telcos and cable companies. If they are further disadvantaged by prejudicial business practices of content providers and content delivery networks, Internet service will -- devastatingly for consumers -- become a duopoly. --Brett Glass ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_6KvjU56YFY5BC2J9Rg96Jg) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Benjamin Black <b@b3k.us>
D= ate: May 5, 2009 5:56:53 AM EDT
Subject: Re: [IP] An unusual denial of service attack

Dave,

This= has been a concern to many folks, inside and outside Microsoft, for = several years now.  Solving it is non-trivial as slowing down or= otherwise pacing the delivery of updates can mean critical security = vulnerabilities remain unpatched for days longer.  One attractiv= e solution is the use of peer protocols.  Though I failed to mak= e much headway in that direction, I remain optimistic something more = efficient than the current thundering herd will come along.  Tha= t will present a new set of trade-offs as many folks, Brett included,= dislike the impact of peer protocols on their networks, as well.
=
As a former member of the team responsible for building Microsof= t's CDN, I suggest Brett take a closer look at the traffic.  He = might notice that the traffic is being served from up to 4 different = CDNs.  He might also notice that the vast majority of Akamai tra= ffic comes from a very small number of data centers, as is the case f= or any modern, efficient CDN.  Lots of tiny caches everywhere ma= kes for good marketing but bad business.  The typical approach i= s for ISPs to peer with the CDNs directly.

Brett mentions hav= ing his own caches, but being unable to make use of them because of c= ache-control headers from the CDNs.  Has he considered simply ig= noring those headers?  I can't recommend mucking about with Wind= ows Update, but it might provide some relief.


Ben

=
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:56 AM, David Farb= er <dave@farb= er.net> wrote:


Begin forwarded message:
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.net>
Date: May 4, 2009 11:07:50 A= M EDT
To: da= ve@farber.net, "Ip ip" <ip@v2.listbox.com>
Subject: An unusual de= nial of service attack

Dave, and everyone:

This wee= kend, my ISP suffered an unusual sort of denial of service attack.
Starting on Saturday morning, users were reporting that their = Web browsing had slowed to a crawl, though other services were workin= g properly. I investigated, and saw that our upstream connection to t= he Internet backbone was being saturated -- but not by any one custom= er. So, I looked at the statistics on our Web cache (an activity, by = the way, which I'm sure that certain privacy advocates would find tan= tamount to "snooping," even though it was for the purpose of managing= the network). After awhile, I was able to figure out what was wrong.=

We were facing a distributed denial of service attack from = the world's largest "botnet:" Microsoft's "Windows Update."

= Virtually every Windows machine on our network -- and most of our cus= tomers's machines are running Windows XP or Windows Vista -- was indi= vidually downloading many large updates. (See

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.= do?command=3DprintArticleBasic&taxonomyName=3DSecurity&articl= eId=3D9131573&taxonomyId=3D17

for a list of some of = the many security holes that were being patched.)

Fixing hol= es in Windows is a good thing, but to command more than 90% of all of= the computers around the globe to "phone home" at the same time is, = obviously, not. It's doubly bad when the updates are explicitly marke= d as non-cacheable, making our Web cache of no use to stem the flood.=

What's worse -- at least for our small ISP -- is that the u= pdates are distributed for Microsoft by a company called Akamai. Akam= ai, as many of you know, places caches at the hubs of many ISPs' netw= orks -- but, alas, only those of larger ones. Our smaller ISP, which = has never been able to convince Akamai to place a cache at our locati= on despite many years of requests, therefore must use backbone bandwi= dth to service all of these redundant requests. When I checked -- and= it was not at the peak -- the traffic was consuming about half of ou= r main DS-3 line to the Internet, leaving only half of its capacity a= vailable to carry all other traffic (including VoIP and bandwidth-int= ensive streaming video). Our cache's CPU utilization was above 95%, s= lowing response times still further.

I solved the problem by= telling the cache to throttle traffic to and from Akamai's upstream = caches, which were serving up the updates. Instantly, the load droppe= d off and normal service was restored.

As Spider-Man creator= Stan Lee once noted, "with great power comes great responsibility." = Microsoft, by virtue of its control over Windows-based PCs, has the a= bility to shut down the entire Internet at will -- and must be carefu= l not to do it, inadvertently, by turning 90% of the world's PCs into= a "zombie army."

Furthermore, content delivery networks suc= h as Akamai, which distributes Microsoft's updates, must not be allow= ed to discriminate against smaller providers by making updates uncach= eable (at least by a standards-conforming Web cache) and then denying= smaller ISPs access to a cache that WILL cache them. (Google, too, i= s also placing caches at the hubs of larger ISPs, thus giving them an= edge when it comes to delivering Google services and video.) Small a= nd competitive ISPs already have a tough row to hoe when competing wi= th the telcos and cable companies. If they are further disadvantaged = by prejudicial business practices of content providers and content de= livery networks, Internet service will -- devastatingly for consumers= -- become a duopoly.

--Brett Glass




=
-------------------------------------------
Archives: http://www.listbox.com


<= div style=3D"padding:0 4px 4px 4px;background-color:#fff;clear:both" = bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
Archives
--Boundary_(ID_6KvjU56YFY5BC2J9Rg96Jg)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 09:02:58 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80030148N0B@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80020148JZW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ600G01DBFOX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ6009MYDBFC1@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED5BFBFB for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13D016B1C for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A5D25587 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B830925586 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n45ELfGA012865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 10:21:51 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] old maps of Tokyo -- or not? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <6E35F64D-23EE-449A-8A48-9C11B3DA585B@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_dQgFoobtOfpsb3XrnAvxGw)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 1118C4F0-3980-11DE-A1AB-AFDED2E2EDEB X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_dQgFoobtOfpsb3XrnAvxGw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Rodney Van Meter Date: May 5, 2009 5:08:37 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: old maps of Tokyo -- or not? http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nn20090505a1.html Google crosses line with controversial old Tokyo maps By JAY ALABASTER The Associated Press When Google Earth --Boundary_(ID_dQgFoobtOfpsb3XrnAvxGw) Content-type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0666; name=spacer.gif Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=spacer.gif R0lGODlhAQABAJEAAAAAAP///////wAAACH5BAEAAAIALAAAAAABAAEAAAICVAEA Ow== --Boundary_(ID_dQgFoobtOfpsb3XrnAvxGw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT added historical maps of Japan to its online collection last year, the search giant didn't expect a backlash. The finely detailed woodblock prints have been around for centuries, they were already posted on another Web site, and a historical map of Tokyo put up in 2006 hadn't caused any problems. But Google failed to judge how its offering would be received, as it has often done in Japan. The company is now facing inquiries from the Justice Ministry and angry accusations of prejudice because its maps detailed the locations of former low-caste communities. The maps date back to the feudal era, when shoguns ruled and a strict caste system was in place. At the bottom of the hierarchy were a class called the "burakumin," ethnically identical to other Japanese but forced to live in isolation because they did jobs associated with death, such as working with leather, butchering animals and digging graves. Google Earth's maps pinpointed several such areas. One village in Tokyo was clearly labeled "eta," a now strongly derogatory word for burakumin that literally means "filthy mass." A single click showed the streets and buildings that are currently in the same area. Google posted the maps as one of many "layers" available via its mapping software, each of which can be easily matched up with modern satellite imagery. The company provided no explanation or historical context, as is common practice in Japan. Its basic stance is that its actions are acceptable because they are legal, one that has angered burakumin leaders. Two weeks later, after the public comments and at least one reporter contacted Google, the old Japanese maps were suddenly changed, wiped clean of any references to the buraku villages. There was no note made of the changes, and they were seen by some as an attempt to quietly dodge the issue. "This is like saying those people didn't exist. There are people for whom this is their hometown, who are still living there now," said Takashi Uchino from the Buraku Liberation League headquarters in Tokyo. --Rod ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_dQgFoobtOfpsb3XrnAvxGw)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 09:03:00 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80030148N0B@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80020148JZW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ600H01DJZTE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ6008PRDJZEC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7A828B2B for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E82F1D461 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E591E160 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0374415F for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n45EQ95O021396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 10:26:20 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Do watch cahrging online using B of A credit cards To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: AF45FEC2-3980-11DE-8ED9-E73AB935C6A7 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Unless you know where the company is, note that starting in June B of A adds 3% as a foreign currency charge even if the charge is in $s. -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 09:03:02 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80030148N0B@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80020148JZW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ600M01EPT56@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ600KCVEPT19@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DDECE2 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76AF529C73 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:55:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5251A29C71 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n45EtKwQ022776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 10:55:41 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Do watch cahrging online using B of A credit cards To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <5E0F3D23-7215-40ED-B332-4A85614E4C69@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: CFAFDB16-3984-11DE-9976-FBCE9DDBB37F X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200905051430.n45EUstt005509@moose.dimebank.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Chris Kantarjiev Date: May 5, 2009 10:30:54 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Do watch cahrging online using B of A credit cards Dave (for IP, if you wish) - > > Unless you know where the company is, note that starting in June B of > A adds 3% as a foreign currency charge even if the charge is in $s. Citibank has already been doing this - or at least, has done it to me once. I got his with a foreign currency charge for no obvious reason, and when I called, it was pointed out that one of my $ charges was to a company located in Canada. What a crock. Best, chris -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 09:03:04 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80030148N0B@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80020148JZW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ600M01EQ76U@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ600KCYEQ719@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA525E93 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1C72E9 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02932E7 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU (FARBERMAC.ISRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.220.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n45EtKwP022776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 10:55:20 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Two Day Invitational Symposium - Deploying a Signed Root To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_a4N6UQPWasrJ0/TLR3JcBA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: C41FC536-3984-11DE-B38D-98B3920F3190 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <314D41D2-6DB9-48D8-A883-F977B3CA83D3@shinkuro.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_a4N6UQPWasrJ0/TLR3JcBA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Steve Crocker Date: May 5, 2009 10:19:42 AM EDT To: Dave Farber Cc: Steve Crocker Subject: Fwd: Two Day Invitational Symposium - Deploying a Signed Roo= t For IP, if you are willing. Steve Begin forwarded message: > From: "Lauren Price" > Date: May 5, 2009 3:50:18 AM PDT > To: "Lauren Price" > Subject: Two Day Invitational Symposium - Deploying a Signed Root > > Deploying a Signed Root: Issues and Proposed Solutions > June 11-12, 2009 > Washington D.C. > > Announcement and Call for Request for Invitation > > Overview > > In preparation for the signing of the DNS root zone, it=92s desirab= le =20 > to look closely at the deployment process to anticipate what issues= =20 > might arise. How will the appearance of signed responses affect = =20 > existing resolvers? How will the public part of the root key be = =20 > distributed? Are the procedures for changing the root key, i.e. ke= y =20 > rollover, in place and working? Is there a plan for stepping back = =20 > if deployment of a signed root proves problematic? > > These and other questions will be addressed in a two day =20 > invitational symposium June 11-12 in the Washington, DC area =20 > convened by the DNSSEC Industry Coalition. > > Participants are expected from the global community of DNSSEC =20 > software vendors, root operators, ISPs and other resolver operators= , =20 > DNS security community, and others. > > The results from the symposium will be made available publicly as = =20 > quickly as possible after the symposium. > > This symposium will be limited in size. Attendees are expected to = =20 > make substantive contributions. People who are interested in =20 > attending are invited to request an invitation. See the details = =20 > below. > > Symposium Structure and Content > > This symposium will identify issues in the deployment of a signed = =20 > root zone. During the first part of the symposium, participants = =20 > will present issues along with any proposed solutions. During the = =20 > second part, recommended solutions or next steps for reaching =20 > solutions will be discussed. > > > Prospective participants are invited to propose topics. The =20 > potential list of topics includes: > > Key Distribution > > =B7 What is the plane for distributing the public part of t= he =20 > root key? Who will vouch for it and who will distribute it? > > =B7 ISP=92s will need a secure method for retrieving the pu= blic =20 > part of the root key and validating any emergency key roll over. = =20 > Not all ISP=92s are using BIND or NLnet Labs resolvers, and this ma= y =20 > require development time to support such an initiative. > > Key Rollover > > =B7 A shakedown of the key rollover process is needed. Thi= s =20 > requires engagement with the main resolver operators, i.e. the ISPs= =20 > and the software vendors (ISC, NLnet Labs, etc.) The process will = =20 > take a few months, at the very least, because each rollover require= s =20 > at least a month. > > Trust and Transparency > > =B7 There is a concern for securing the KSK/ZSK at the root= =20 > and ensuring this process has transparency and security. > > =B7 What assurance does the global community need regarding= =20 > the key ceremony and the processes associated with key management? > > Impact on ISPs and Resolvers > > =B7 ISP=92s authoritative data will grow significantly with= =20 > signed data. We need to make sure Authoritative DNS operators are = =20 > more aware of the impacts to their data and how this will impact = =20 > resolver caches. > > =B7 Some resolvers, particularly BIND, set the DO bit for = =20 > every request, thereby asking for a signed response, even if they = =20 > don't intend to check the signature. Once there are signatures in = =20 > the root zone, there will be a spike in size of responses. How wil= l =20 > this affect resolvers and ISPs? > > Contingency Plans > > =B7 What might go wrong when the root is signed? Is there = a =20 > way of telling? Might it be necessary to step back and revert to a= n =20 > unsigned root for a period of time? If so, who will make the =20 > decision and how will the roll back be accomplished? > > Call for Participants > > This symposium is specifically for people who are well informed and= =20 > have current issues or proposed solutions to bring to the table. > > Prospective participants are hereby invited to send email to the = =20 > steering committee at info@dnsseccoalition.org with a brief =20 > description of the issue(s) he or she wishes to discuss. In the = =20 > interest of time, topics should be proposed by May 11. Invitations= =20 > and details on logistics, D.C. area will be issued by May 14. > > Best, > Lauren > > > LAUREN PRICE > Chair, The DNSSEC Industry Coalition > Mobile: 703-973-1669 > Fax: 703-889-5779 > Email: lprice@pir.org > > > .ORG, The Public Interest Registry > 1775 Wiehle Avenue, Suite 200 > Reston,VA 20190 > > Visit us online! > Check out events & blogs at .ORG Buzz! > Find us on Facebook > See the .ORG Buzz! Photo Gallery on Flickr > See our video library on YouTube > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > Proprietary and confidential to .ORG, The Public Interest Registry.= =20 > If received in error, please inform sender and then delete. > > ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_a4N6UQPWasrJ0/TLR3JcBA) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Steve Crocker <steve@shin= kuro.com>
Date: May 5, 2009 10:19:42 AM EDT=
To: = Dave Farber <dave@fa= rber.net>
Cc: Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com>
Subject: <= font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><= b>Fwd: Two Day Invitational Symposium - Deploying a Signed Root

For IP, if you are willing.

=
Steve

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Lauren Price" <lprice@pir.or= g>
Date: May 5, 2009 3:50:18 AM PDT
To: lprice@pir.org= >
Subject: Two Day Invitational Symposium - Dep= loying a Signed Root

Deploying a Signed Ro= ot: Issues and Proposed Solutions

June 11-12, 2009

Washi= ngton D.C.

Announcem= ent and Call for Request for Invitation

 

Overview

 
In preparation for t= he signing of the DNS root zone, it=92s desirable to look closely at = the deployment process to anticipate what issues might arise.  H= ow will the appearance of signed responses affect existing resolvers?=   How will the public part of the root key be distributed? = Are the procedures for changing the root key, i.e. key rollover, in = place and working?  Is there a plan for stepping back if deploym= ent of a signed root proves problematic?
 = ;
These and other questions will be addressed in a two d= ay invitational symposium June 11-12 in the Washington, DC area conve= ned by the DNSSEC Industry Coalition.
=  
 = ;
The results from the symposium will be made available = publicly as quickly as possible after the symposium.
This symposium will be limited in size.=   Attendees are expected to make substantive contributions. = ; People who are interested in attending are invited to request an in= vitation.  See the details below.
&nb= sp;

Symposium Structure and Content

 
This symposium will identify issues in the deployment of a = signed root zone.  During the first part of the symposium, parti= cipants will present issues along with any proposed solutions.  = During the second part, recommended solutions or next steps for reach= ing solutions will be discussed.
 

Prospective participants are invited to propose topics. = The potential list of topics includes:
 =
Key Distribution
 
         <= span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;= ">What is the plane for distributing the public part of the root key= ?  Who will vouch for it and who will distribute it?

=B7   &nbs= p;     = ;ISP=92s will need a secure method fo= r retrieving the public part of the root key and validating any emerg= ency key roll over.  Not all ISP=92s are using BIND or NLnet Lab= s resolvers, and this may require development time to support such an= initiative.

Key Rol= lover
 
=B7     &n= bsp;   A shakedown of the key rollover process is nee= ded.  This requires engagement with the main resolver operators,= i.e. the ISPs and the software vendors (ISC, NLnet Labs, etc.)  = ;The process will take a few months, at the very least, because each = rollover requires at least a month.
Trust and Transpare= ncy

=B7         There is a co= ncern for securing the KSK/ZSK at the root and ensuring this process = has transparency and security.

=B7        <= span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> What assurance does the global community need regarding the key= ceremony and the processes associated with key management?
 
=B7       = ;  ISP=92s authoritative data will grow significantly with= signed data.  We need to make sure Authoritative DNS operators = are more aware of the impacts to their data and how this will impact = resolver caches.

= =B7         Some= resolvers, particularly BIND, set the DO bit for every request, ther= eby asking for a signed response, even if they don't intend to check = the signature.  Once there are signatures in the root zone, ther= e will be a spike in size of responses.  How will this affect re= solvers and ISPs?
 
Contingency Plans
 
=B7         Wh= at might go wrong when the root is signed?  Is there a way of te= lling?  Might it be necessary to step back and revert to an unsi= gned root for a period of time?  If so, who will make the decisi= on and how will the roll back be accomplished?
 

Call for Participants
 
This symposium is specifically for people who ar= e well informed and have current issues or proposed solutions to brin= g to the table.
 
Prospectiv= e participants are hereby invited to send email to the steering commi= ttee at info@dnsseccoalition.org with a brief description of the issue(s= ) he or she wishes to discuss.  In the interest of time, topics = should be proposed by May 11.  Invitations and details on logist= ics, D.C. area will be issued by May 14.
 = ;
Best,
Lauren
=
 
 
LAUREN PRICE
Chair, The DNSSEC Industry = Coalition
Mobile: 703-973-1669=
Fax: 703-889-5779
 
 
.ORG, The Public Interest Registry
Resto= n,VA  20190
 
Visit us online!
Check out e= vents & blogs at .OR= G Buzz!
Find us on Facebook
= See the .ORG Buzz! Photo Gallery on Flickr
See our video library on YouTube
 
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:<= /span>
Proprietary and confidential to .ORG, The Public Int= erest Registry.  If received in error, please inform sender and = then delete.
 
 


Archives
--Boundary_(ID_a4N6UQPWasrJ0/TLR3JcBA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 09:03:06 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80030148N0B@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ80020148JZW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 09:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800M012IUEV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 08:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ800HGW2IU0I@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 08:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E22F1BF for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 08:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B2F16185 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 08:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A3B293DB for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 08:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66933293DA for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 08:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n46CNnOA013375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 08:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 08:24:23 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Mathematics and the Internet: A Source of Enormous Confusion and Great Potential To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: D8D01A12-3A38-11DE-98DE-B0C8C188CE74 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <1530F02A-8D5A-4C3D-808E-A105E9486389@sfc.wide.ad.jp> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Rodney Van Meter Date: May 6, 2009 6:58:44 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: Mathematics and the Internet: A Source of Enormous Confusion and Great Potential Dave, for IP, if you wish. The topology of the Internet is an important and fascinating topic, but studying it requires a great deal of care and attention to both the math and the underlying technology. Some researchers have gotten things very wrong by believing that they can simply ignore the technology and treat it as an abstract graph theory problem. This paper is by people I trust to get it right. Appearing in _Notices of the AMS_, it probably won't get as much attention from the Internet community as it deserves, so I hope you'll publicize it here. I also recommend the PNAS paper by some of the same folks ( http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/102/41/14497.pdf ). Just published in AMS (America Mathematical Society) yesterday: "Mathematics and the Internet: A Source of Enormous Confusion and Great Potential" Walter Willinger, David Alderson, and John C. Doyle http://www.ams.org/notices/200905/rtx090500586p.pdf I'm not an expert on the Internet topology, nor on the math, but I have a lecture on this topic that I use in one of my classes, and have a list of other references and comments on them, if people are interested. --Rod -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 15:35:41 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800001MFDQL@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 15:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800001MFAQ2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 15:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800L018XW3X@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ800ELV8XVVP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE3B28EB2 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275F826A20 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E85299FB for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A5D299F9 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n46EhZKN023881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:44:13 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Do watch cahrging online using B of A credit cards To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <63B646A3-813F-4F43-9AF4-E7EB826E934D@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 6060318E-3A4C-11DE-93ED-9FB209549ABE X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <9F482579-51D8-42E4-8599-14F506F265B5@rediguana.co.nz> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Gavin Treadgold Date: May 5, 2009 7:30:09 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Do watch cahrging online using B of A credit cards Dave - possibly for IP. > Citibank has already been doing this - or at least, has done it to me > once. I got his with a foreign currency charge for no obvious reason, > and when I called, it was pointed out that one of my $ charges was > to a company located in Canada. We had a similar problem in New Zealand whereby banks were charging a % on international credit card transactions but weren't presenting this fee - it was hidden in the item charge on the statement. The NZ Commerce Commission took the banks to court over these fees, and a large number of them were reversed, and now the fees are very clearly outlined on every international transaction. We still attract the fees on international transactions, but they are very clearly identified as 'foreign currency service fees' or similar for each and international transaction. I'm not sure how they would handle a NZD transaction in say Australia, and whether that would incur the fee. Cheers Gavin -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 15:35:42 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800001MFDQL@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 15:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800001MFAQ2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 15:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800L0190NEP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ800ENE90NVP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B56284E7 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FFD226058 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B0529A12 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 138D829A11 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n46EjntW024001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:45:48 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] 16 y/o arrested under 'Patriot' Act To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 98BAA244-3A4C-11DE-AFE1-C0E576339A85 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <1DA0B12B-94AE-4950-91F8-82C74701751F@infowarrior.org> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Richard Forno Date: May 6, 2009 9:04:20 AM EDT To: Undisclosed-recipients: <>; Cc: Dave Farber Subject: 16 y/o arrested under 'Patriot' Act (c/o CW) He was accused of making bomb threats over the internet. Mother claims his IP address was stolen and used to make the threats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFVQ0HZz2mc -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 22:50:39 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K94C@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K53X@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800F01QEHVP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ800E64QEHP2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9805928125 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 879CF26A6C for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6078625027 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2C925026 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n46L16Y4013163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 17:01:36 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Teacher violated Establishment Clause by describing creationism as "superstitious nonsense" To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2B10C10F-8A85-455A-B001-E67ED3ABDDCF@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 184863FA-3A81-11DE-98F1-E9B5967E4F62 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Paul Levy" Date: May 6, 2009 2:50:18 PM EDT To: Subject: Teacher violated Establishment Clause by describing =20 creationism as "superstitious nonsense" A federal judge in LA has ruled that a high school teacher violated t= he Establishment Clause by saying during his AP course in European Histo= ry at Capistrano Valley High School, that a fellow teacher's advocacy of creationism (or, more specifically, his lawsuit against the teaching = of evolution) was "superstitious nonsense." The judge let the teacher off the hook for saying, "What was it that Mark Twain said? =91Religion was invented when the first con man met = the first fool.=92=94 But only because it was not clear that the teacher was endorsing Twain's view. Other statements on which the teacher wa= s "acquitted" included the teachers view that religious groups should n= ot be exempt from paying taxes and his espusal of the separation of chur= ch and state. The student had apparently made recordings of the teacher= 's lectures before suing over them. The decision appears here http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/2009/05/01/Student%20lawsuit%20-= %20final%20ruling.pdf Paul Alan Levy Public Citizen Litigation Group 1600 - 20th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 588-1000 http://www.citizen.org/litigation -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 22:50:40 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K94C@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K53X@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800G01QGY16@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ800E6HQGYP2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804362869F for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFAE26050 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A05825035 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41D425034 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n46L2kt1013243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 17:02:45 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] No agreement on reform of telecom legislation in EU To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_bLRTufGMXTZ6ERpRdoqE9A)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 41342DD0-3A81-11DE-BBDB-CEE6E621128A X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <2e1cda350905060929ide172e8s53fda8ca72315ec6@mail.gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_bLRTufGMXTZ6ERpRdoqE9A) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Sandra Keegan Date: May 6, 2009 12:29:25 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: No agreement on reform of telecom legislation in EU Dave, For IP if you wish. Below are two reports of today's rejection by the European Parliament of the telecoms package under negotiation. The draft legislation will go back to the Council now that the EP has completed its second reading and re-instated its earlier amendments introduced during its first reading. The Parliament is currently in its last plenary session before recessing to hold Europe-wide elections in June. The next step in the legislative process is a conciliation procedure which will likely be triggered once the Parliament reconvenes in July. Sandra Keegan Wide-ranging reforms of European Union telecom laws were rejected by the European Parliament on Wednesday because of one clause that would have compromised citizens' rights of access to the Internet. http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=16272025-1A64-6A71-CE42CECA725771BA A user's Internet access cannot be restricted without prior ruling by the judicial authorities, insists the European Parliament reinstating one of its first-reading amendments. By amending an informal agreement reached with Council, MEPs send the whole "telecom package" to conciliation. The EP does, however, agree with the Council on investments in new communications infrastructure, the reform of radio spectrum use, clear consumer rights and privacy protection. MEPs amend a political agreement reached with the Council on the reform of the regulatory framework for electronic communications - including mobile and fixed telephones, broadcasting, wireless and fixed internet. Therefore, the whole "telecom package" is likely to be subject to conciliation in Parliament's next legislative term after the European elections when the EP reconvenes in July. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/expert/infopress_page/058-55086-124-05-19-909-20090505IPR55085-04-05-2009-2009-true/default_en.htm ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_bLRTufGMXTZ6ERpRdoqE9A) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Sandra Keegan <sandr= a.keegan@gmail.com>
Date: May 6, 2009 12:29:25 PM E= DT
Subject: No agreement on reform of telecom le= gislation in EU
http://news.id= g.no/cw/art.cfm?id=3D16272025-1A64-6A71-CE42CECA725771BA

=
A user's Internet access cannot be restricted without pri= or ruling by the judicial authorities, insists the European Parliamen= t reinstating one of its first-reading amendments. By amending an inf= ormal agreement reached with Council, MEPs send the whole "telecom pa= ckage" to conciliation. The EP does, however, agree with the Council = on investments in new communications infrastructure, the reform of ra= dio spectrum use, clear consumer rights and privacy protection.   MEPs amend a political ag= reement reached with the Council on the reform of the regulatory fram= ework for electronic communications - including mobile and fixed tele= phones, broadcasting, wireless and fixed internet. Therefore, the who= le "telecom package" is likely to be subject to conciliation in Parli= ament's next legislative term after the European elections when the E= P reconvenes in July.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ne= ws/expert/infopress_page/058-55086-124-05-19-909-20090505IPR55085-04-= 05-2009-2009-true/default_en.htm

 

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_bLRTufGMXTZ6ERpRdoqE9A)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 22:50:42 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K94C@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K53X@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800G01QN3PQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ800EAAQN3P2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE519FA14 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B37716AC2 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE9C2505C for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5702505A for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n46L3t1N013282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 17:03:55 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: WORTH READING EU urges Internet governance revamp To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_P4EBrxXw6k/fqMsYBW3eiQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 6B18246C-3A81-11DE-BE1E-CD09C53B739F X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_P4EBrxXw6k/fqMsYBW3eiQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: PBradfield@aol.com Date: May 6, 2009 2:57:32 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] WORTH READING EU urges Internet governance revamp In a message dated 5/4/2009 7:12:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dave@farber.net writes: ICANN imposes a direct cost on internet users to a tune of nearly a billion dollars a year, every year, in excessive and unjustifiable domain name costs. The author doesn't justify or support this claim and he provides no suggestion of a way to do cheaper. Big savings on Dell's most popular laptops. Now starting at $449! ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_P4EBrxXw6k/fqMsYBW3eiQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

Date= : May 6, 2009 2:57:32 PM EDT
Subject: = = Re: [IP] WORTH READING  = ; EU urges Internet governance revamp

<= div> 
 
In a message dated 5/4/2009 7= :12:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dave@farber.net writes:
ICANN imposes a direct cost on internet users to
a tune of= nearly a billion dollars a year, every year, in excessive and
un= justifiable domain name costs. 
 =
The author doesn't justify or support this claim and he p= rovides no suggestion of a way to do cheaper.  
 
 

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_P4EBrxXw6k/fqMsYBW3eiQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 22:50:44 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K94C@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K53X@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800H01R14WX@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ800H02R14WC@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E04DA for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B6925185 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5017825184 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n46LHpnm013843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 17:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 17:17:50 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Gizmodo - How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks - Steal moon rocks To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <56D01E03-7016-48F6-8022-AA6EBC3EB667@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_/S+B1HEPzi88mz5ZSc8SyA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 5D461AA4-3A83-11DE-BB61-F97B5F47ECE8 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_/S+B1HEPzi88mz5ZSc8SyA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_/S+B1HEPzi88mz5ZSc8SyA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks

--Boundary_(ID_/S+B1HEPzi88mz5ZSc8SyA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed May 6 22:50:46 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K94C@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K53X@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800901W6ND2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ8002JTW6NRN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18585F479 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7943816DF7 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD922C6A for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EDC2C69 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n46N3QNX007499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 19:03:26 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] ICANN: Billions for the DNS and not a penny for stability To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <9B219465-2384-4805-9475-20DCD4FBF0C6@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_O+MNTdXUarhC5x6//4pNVA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 1D0127C2-3A92-11DE-AB7B-DAB8772E7D35 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <002201c9ce9d$38ce6ed0$aa6b4c70$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_O+MNTdXUarhC5x6//4pNVA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: May 6, 2009 6:51:40 PM EDT To: , "'ip'" Subject: ICANN: Billions for the DNS and not a penny for stability It=92s ICANN that must justify perpetuating artificial scarcity =96 a= t =20 least DeBeers maintains a limited supply of a physical object. ICANN = =20 is taking bits (which represent text strings) and creating scarcity. = =20 Even if you wanted a token that has no intrinsic meaning you still = =20 have to pay a leasing fee. What is the cost of managing and using second level names like =20 =93foo.bar.qq=94? Why are names like =931231231.qq=94 so expensive = =96 does it =20 really cost a billion dollars to run the root servers? Why are tiny = =20 URLs so inexpensive? But the real cost is that these names aren=92t stable identifiers thu= s =20 undermining the original mission! They are leased and thus the whole = =20 Internet must unravel and we lose our past and often our present = =20 because ICANN is aiding and abetting a fundamentally flawed system. At this point I argue the DNS should be junked but at very least we = =20 should assure stable identifiers by stopping the misguided confusion = =20 of these tokens with trademarks. Trademarks devoid of all the social = =20 mechanism and human considerations that make real trademarks work. Th= e =20 DNS itself shouldn=92t be burdened with maintaining the semantics of = the =20 Internet =96 it should be just boring, very boring, plumbing. Better = =20 yet, it should be just an app outside the plumbing. Instead we get bidding wars for TLDs! ICANN might as well open a = =93star =20 registry=94 and make money letting people purchase =93star names=94. =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 17:04 To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: WORTH READING EU urges Internet governance revamp Begin forwarded message: =46rom: PBradfield@aol.com Date: May 6, 2009 2:57:32 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] WORTH READING EU urges Internet governance revamp In a message dated 5/4/2009 7:12:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dave@= farber.net=20 writes: ICANN imposes a direct cost on internet users to a tune of nearly a billion dollars a year, every year, in excessive a= nd unjustifiable domain name costs. The author doesn't justify or support this claim and he provides no = =20 suggestion of a way to do cheaper. Big savings on Dell's most popular laptops. Now starting at $449! Archives =09 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_O+MNTdXUarhC5x6//4pNVA) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_7ZWqPMncZXtqwqZnV5gMJA)"; type="text/html" --Boundary_(ID_7ZWqPMncZXtqwqZnV5gMJA) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: May 6, 200= 9 6:51:40 PM EDT
Subject: ICANN: Billions fo= r the DNS and not a penny for stability

It=92s ICANN that must justify perpetuating artificial scarci= ty =96 at least DeBeers maintains a limited supply of a physical obje= ct. ICANN is taking bits (which represent text strings) and creating = scarcity. Even if you wanted a token that has no intrinsic meaning yo= u still have to pay a leasing fee.
&n= bsp;
What is the cost of managing and using seco= nd level names like =93foo.bar.qq=94? Why are names like =931231231.q= q=94 so expensive =96 does it really cost a billion dollars to run th= e root servers? Why are tiny URLs so inexpensive?
 
But the real cost is that the= se names aren=92t stable identifiers thus undermining the original mi= ssion! They are leased and thus the whole Internet must unravel and w= e lose our past and often our present because ICANN is aiding and abe= tting a fundamentally flawed system.
&= nbsp;
At this point I argue the DNS should be ju= nked but at very least we should assure stable identifiers by stoppin= g the misguided confusion of these tokens with trademarks. Trademarks= devoid of all the social mechanism and human considerations that mak= e real trademarks work. The DNS itself shouldn=92t be burdened with m= aintaining the semantics of the Internet =96 it should be just boring= , very boring, plumbing. Better yet, it should be just an app outside= the plumbing.
 
Instead we get bidding wars for TLDs! ICANN might as well open a= =93star registry=94 and make money letting people purchase =93star n= ames=94.
 
<= o:p> 
From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 17:= 04
To: ip=
Subject: [IP] Re: WORTH READING EU urges Internet governance revamp
 
 
 
Begin forwarded message:
 
From: PBradfield@aol.com
=
Date: May 6, 2009 2:57:32 PM EDT
Subject: Re: [IP] WORTH READING   EU= urges Internet governance revamp
 
 
=
 
In a message dated 5/4/2009 7:12:04 P.M. Eas= tern Daylight Time, dave@farber.net writes:
ICANN imposes a direct cost on internet use= rs to
a tune of nearly a billion dollars a year, every year, in ex= cessive and
unjustifiable domain name costs. 
 
The author doesn't just= ify or support this claim and he provides no suggestion of a way to d= o cheaper.  
 
 
 
 

Archives
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Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900G016K53X@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ800A01WK6KH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ8002OOWK6RN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB9DFDC6 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F6E29ADD for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A10929ADC for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n46NGf82016697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 19:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 19:16:40 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Results from Wolfram Alpha: All the Questions We Ever Wanted to Ask About Software as a Service To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: F8E66184-3A93-11DE-B716-C76CC9A04C05 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <14908177.691761241651569540.JavaMail.root@ball.east.ora.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Andy Oram Date: May 6, 2009 7:12:49 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Results from Wolfram Alpha: All the Questions We Ever Wanted to Ask About Software as a Service Software as a Service upends the relationship between computer users and software. I'm seriously tempted to say that Wolfram Alpha takes the SaaS model to its extreme. So Wolfram Alpha's chances at scaling the heights of fame should force us to stop for a moment and run our own calculations concerning the value to us of data integrity, reliability, privacy, and innovation. http://praxagora.com/andyo/article/saas_wolfram_alpha.html -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Andy Oram O'Reilly Media email: andyo@oreilly.com Editor 10 Fawcett Street, Fourth Floor voice: 617-499-7479 Cambridge, MA 02138-1175, USA fax: 617-661-1116 identi.ca/twitter:praxagora http://www.praxagora.com/andyo/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:34 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJ900101X0U2D@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 08:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJ900JVGX0UG5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 08:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D68FABD for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 08:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5483D17511 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 08:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55AA250E7 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 08:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18A9250E6 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 08:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47CKJIV028098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 08:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 08:20:18 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: No agreement on reform of telecom legislation in EU To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <977340F5-9883-4443-B8C3-69DC81E97DD7@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 6FD348D0-3B01-11DE-BE25-877465BC4B97 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Seth Johnson" Date: May 6, 2009 10:19:12 PM EDT To: "David Farber" , "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] No agreement on reform of telecom legislation in EU (Dave -- for IP, as you wish) My comments: I believe this is exactly the sort of victory we need. The EU Parliament has stood up for the sovereignty of the many states within the EU, and the sovereignty of the people in those states, by standing up for their fundamental rights, over the supercession of those rights by transnational bodies dedicated in general to principles of market efficiency, without appropriate regard for the well from whence just law derives. While the rest of this law was problematic to say the least, I believe the resistance on the one principle of not allowing invasions of privacy without judicial findings of cause, held back the key thing that those pursuing the overall law sought, as a means of strengthening the principle that their purposes may dominate the proceedings when enacting these kinds of rules. I can't help but believe this shows the magnitude of what the software patent fight achieved -- the EU Parliament apparently now recognizes that whatever their appropriate role must be, they serve the people. I don't believe the term "fundamental rights" necessarily clearly describes for all the true nature of the issue. The argument for government of, by and for the people -- which is largely the same as the basic argument against tyranny -- is the argument that we hold rights by our nature as humans, before we enact governments to assure such rights that we cannot perfect in our individual capacities. When we stand up for fundamental rights, we assure our capacity to govern ourselves. Note that the first Supreme Court copyright case in the United States, Wheaton vs. Peters, made clear that copyright, as given by the US Federal Constitution, is statutory, not a reflection of common law traditions inherited from England within the several original colonies, which differed in any case among them [in particular, Pennsylvania had no concept of perpetual copyright]. The case is well worth reviewing in the present context of multinational treaty-making for so-called "intellectual property" rules [Wheaton v. Peters: http://supreme.justia.com/us/33/591/case.html]. The historical import of the United States's revolution is unique for originally making the cause of fundamental rights [properly understood as rights that are inherent to human beings by their nature, prior to the governments they institute on earth], the very argument for rebellion against a government that does not recognize those rights. This must be held before our eyes in the present context. It doesn't apply, for that matter, to copyright alone. Seth Johnson (speaking in an individual capacity) -----Original Message----- From: David Farber To: "ip" Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 17:02:45 -0400 Subject: [IP] No agreement on reform of telecom legislation in EU > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Sandra Keegan > Date: May 6, 2009 12:29:25 PM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: No agreement on reform of telecom legislation in EU > > Dave, > > For IP if you wish. > > Below are two reports of today's rejection by the European Parliament > > of the telecoms package under negotiation. > The draft legislation will go back to the Council now that the EP has > > completed its second reading and re-instated its earlier amendments > introduced during its first reading. The Parliament is currently in > its last plenary session before recessing to hold Europe-wide > elections in June. > The next step in the legislative process is a conciliation procedure > which will likely be triggered once the Parliament reconvenes in > July. > > Sandra Keegan > > > Wide-ranging reforms of European Union telecom laws were rejected by > the European Parliament on Wednesday because of one clause that would > > have compromised citizens' rights of access to the Internet. > http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=16272025-1A64-6A71-CE42CECA725771BA > > > A user's Internet access cannot be restricted without prior ruling by > > the judicial authorities, insists the European Parliament reinstating > > one of its first-reading amendments. By amending an informal > agreement > reached with Council, MEPs send the whole "telecom package" to > conciliation. The EP does, however, agree with the Council on > investments in new communications infrastructure, the reform of radio > > spectrum use, clear consumer rights and privacy protection. MEPs > amend a political agreement reached with the Council on the reform of > > the regulatory framework for electronic communications - including > mobile and fixed telephones, broadcasting, wireless and fixed > internet. Therefore, the whole "telecom package" is likely to be > subject to conciliation in Parliament's next legislative term after > the European elections when the EP reconvenes in July. > > http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/expert/infopress_page/058-55086-12 > 4-05-19-909-20090505IPR55085-04-05-2009-2009-true/default_en.htm > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:35 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00C010NWM2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 09:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA00C3H0NW65@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 09:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7ECFCAE for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 09:45:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8970596 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 09:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7347595 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 09:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47DhUTT019999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 09:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 09:43:28 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2509DE89-6F3A-4F99-89E6-B82428B71D92@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_U/Gd7pGCWDNscijZxKxkaw)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 0FF883BA-3B0D-11DE-A248-F59BBB46D81C X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_U/Gd7pGCWDNscijZxKxkaw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Jonathan B Spira" Date: May 7, 2009 2:17:48 AM EDT To: "Dave Farber" Subject: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? Dave A Kindle DX costs as much as an inexpensive laptop or an expensive = =20 netbook. Clearly neither the laptop nor netbook is as well suited fo= r =20 reading books as a Kindle but they are far more versatile for many = =20 other purposes. Where will this lead? Clearly, electronic publishing in this sense is= =20 coming but will Kindle be the preferred answer? Here is my initial take on Kindle DX - http://www.basexblog.com/2009/= 05/06/amazon-kindle-dx-is-bigger-really-better/ Regards/Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen/Sz=EDv=E9lyes =FCdv=F6zlet/Cordia= lement/=20 Cordiali saluti/Saludos/V=E4nliga h=E4lsningar /s/ Jonathan Jonathan B. Spira CEO and Chief Analyst Basex, Inc. 8 http://www.basex.com ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_U/Gd7pGCWDNscijZxKxkaw) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Jonathan B Spira" <jspira@= basex.com>
Date: May 7, 2009 2:17:48 AM EDT
T= o: "Dave Farber" <da= ve@farber.net>
Subject: New Kindle DX intro= duced - is bigger better?


Dave

A Kindle D= X costs as much as an inexpensive laptop or an expensive netbook. &nb= sp;Clearly neither the laptop nor netbook is as well suited for readi= ng books as a Kindle but they are far more versatile for many other p= urposes.

Where w= ill this lead? Clearly, electronic publishing in this sense is coming= but will Kindle be the preferred answer?

Here is my initial take on Kindle DX - http://www.basexblog.com/2009/05/06/amazon-kindle-d= x-is-bigger-really-better/


Regards/M= it freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen/Sz=EDv=E9lyes =FCdv=F6zlet/Cordialement/Co= rdiali saluti/Saludos/V=E4nliga h=E4lsningar

/s/ Jonathan

Jonathan B. Spira
CE= O and Chief Analyst
Basex, Inc.
8 http://www.basex.com


Archives
--Boundary_(ID_U/Gd7pGCWDNscijZxKxkaw)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:36 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA0020158LZ8@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 11:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA0023S58LFY@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 11:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB38285A6 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 11:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A424EC50 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 11:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E00F29486 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 11:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C2C29485 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 11:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47FEuJ0024451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 11:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 11:14:55 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <65A843A6-5E2F-48CE-B753-15635106C987@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: D8012C8E-3B19-11DE-804D-86410637616C X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: May 6, 2009 2:21:54 PM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus SHOVEL-READY BROADBAND STIMULUS [Commentary] The $7.2 billion broadband stimulus will not achieve what it advertises for the US economy. Firms that had been building rural broadband networks have reportedly halted operations, circling back to Washington. Ultimately, the $7.2bn will be awarded in "beauty contests," where bureaucrats examine competing proposals and make their picks based on their values, mood, and whim. A group of 71 economists expert in telecommunications policy, including two Nobel Laureates (and this author), have urged a different approach, "reverse auctions." The government would state its performance criteria and then take bids, selecting the lowest price offers. The proposal has only a remote chance of being adopted because it is both transparent and economical. Having to make goals objective and explicit takes the discretionary political fun away. And assigning rights by competitive bidding is like having a fraternity party without any beer at all. RSS Feed: -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:37 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00J019KVAS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (zeppo.pobox.com [207.8.214.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA009F79KVTZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F2D4D1 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7604C25191 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B81725190 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47GtGJq012676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:55:16 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_QlY70B363PrMwkMGFLhGhA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: D88DC69A-3B27-11DE-8802-826F6F9CD1FC X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <014701c9cf2e$2014a940$603dfbc0$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_QlY70B363PrMwkMGFLhGhA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: May 7, 2009 12:08:55 PM EDT To: , "'ip'" Cc: "'Dewayne Hendricks'" Subject: RE: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus Why am I not surprised that economists claim that they can solve any = =20 problem by holding an auction according to rules they define? And = =20 bureaucrats say they can act as soon as they get measurements (even i= f =20 they are meaningless)? And same-old business just see another revenue= =20 source. We=92ve seen this show before and we=92re in reruns. I=92d like to shift the focus to liberating the value in the =20 infrastructure rather than leaving it locked into the same-old =93val= ue =20 chain=94 we call telecom services. -----Original Message----- =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:15 To: ip Subject: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus Begin forwarded message: =46rom: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: May 6, 2009 2:21:54 PM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus SHOVEL-READY BROADBAND STIMULUS [Commentary] The $7.2 billion broadband stimulus will not achieve wha= t it advertises for the US economy. Firms that had been building rural broadband networks have reportedly halted operations, circling back t= o Washington. Ultimately, the $7.2bn will be awarded in "beauty contests," where bureaucrats examine competing proposals and make their picks based on their values, mood, and whim. A group of 71 economists expert in telecommunications policy, including two Nobel Laureates (and this author), have urged a different approach, "revers= e auctions." The government would state its performance criteria and then take bids, selecting the lowest price offers. The proposal has only a remote chance of being adopted because it is both transparent and economical. Having to make goals objective and explicit takes the discretionary political fun away. And assigning rights by competitive bidding is like having a fraternity party without any beer at all. RSS Feed: ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_QlY70B363PrMwkMGFLhGhA) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
<= span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-sty= le: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing= : normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-ind= ent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-= spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-= vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -web= kit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; ">
Why am I not surprised that ec= onomists claim that they can solve any problem by holding an auction = according to rules they define? And bureaucrats say they can act as s= oon as they get measurements (even if they are meaningless)? And same= -old business just see another revenue source. We=92ve seen this show= before and we=92re in reruns.
 
I=92d like to shift the focus to libe= rating the value in the infrastructure rather than leaving it locked = into the same-old =93value chain=94 we call telecom services.
 =
-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber [<= a href=3D"mailto:dave@farber.net" style=3D"color: blue; text-decorati= on: underline; ">mailto:dave@farber.net] 
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:15
T= o: ip
Subject: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus
 = ;
 
 
Begin forwa= rded message:
 
From: deway= ne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks)
Date: May 6, 2009 2:21:54 PM EDT=
To: Dewayne-Net Technology List <xyzzy@warpspeed.com>
Subject: [Dewayne-Net] S= hovel-ready broadband stimulus
 
=
S= HOVEL-READY BROADBAND STIMULUS
 
=
[= Commentary] The $7.2 billion broadband stimulus will not achieve what=  
it advertises for the US economy. Firms that ha= d been building rural 
broadband networks have re= portedly halted operations, circling back to 
Was= hington. Ultimately, the $7.2bn will be awarded in "beauty =
contests," where bureaucrats examine competing proposals a= nd make 
their picks based on their values, mood,= and whim. A group of 71 
economists expert in te= lecommunications policy, including two Nobel 
Lau= reates (and this author), have urged a different approach, "reverse&n= bsp;
auctions." The government would state its perform= ance criteria and 
then take bids, selecting the = lowest price offers. The proposal has 
only a rem= ote chance of being adopted because it is both transparent =
and economical. Having to make goals objective and explici= t takes the 
discretionary political fun away. An= d assigning rights by competitive 
bidding is = like having a fraternity party without any beer at all.
RSS Feed: <http://www.warpspeed.com/wordpress>
 
 
=
<= o:p> 
-------------------------------------------=
Archives: https://www.listbox.co= m/member/archive/247/=3Dnow
RSS Feed: 

Archives
--Boundary_(ID_QlY70B363PrMwkMGFLhGhA)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:38 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00K019RM0V@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA009IG9RLUI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 936B828A2B for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 13:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A1152E63 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 13:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4EA2370 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 235E236F for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47GtGJr012676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:55:54 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Shovel-ready broadband stimulus To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <92860396-9E69-492B-8B60-3DBFFB491C6D@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: F01CE4EE-3B27-11DE-8F5D-EA0C7AB62F62 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <01cd01c9cf2d$9ac37af0$19a8a8c0@miketodd.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Mike Todd" Date: May 7, 2009 12:05:12 PM EDT To: Subject: Re: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus Dwayne, I am hoping your much more workable approach gets some reasonable chance of becoming a reality. Even though the technical aspects do not seem to have a prayer of having a chance of providing some reason to the process, getting it out of the hands of "big money", "big government" and the "political playground" would, at the very least, be a step in a much better direction! Mike Todd President, Mike Todd Associates - www.MikeTodd.com President, Internet Society Los Angeles Chapter - www.ISOC-LA.org toddm@isoc-la.org Founder, Digital Divide Task Force, www.ddtf.org (undergoing updates) miketodd@ddtf.org Western Trade Adjustment Assistance Center (Western TAAC) Phoenix, Arizona program expansion center Western Research Application Center, Viterbi School of Engineering, University of Southern California ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farber" To: "ip" Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 08:14 Subject: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) > Date: May 6, 2009 2:21:54 PM EDT > To: Dewayne-Net Technology List > Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus > > SHOVEL-READY BROADBAND STIMULUS > > [Commentary] The $7.2 billion broadband stimulus will not achieve > what it advertises for the US economy. Firms that had been building > rural broadband networks have reportedly halted operations, > circling back to Washington. Ultimately, the $7.2bn will be awarded > in "beauty contests," where bureaucrats examine competing proposals > and make their picks based on their values, mood, and whim. A group > of 71 economists expert in telecommunications policy, including two > Nobel Laureates (and this author), have urged a different approach, > "reverse auctions." The government would state its performance > criteria and then take bids, selecting the lowest price offers. The > proposal has only a remote chance of being adopted because it is > both transparent and economical. Having to make goals objective and > explicit takes the discretionary political fun away. And assigning > rights by competitive bidding is like having a fraternity party > without any beer at all. > > > RSS Feed: > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:39 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00K019SO3V@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA009KB9U8UI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF5610035 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 13:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3619117005 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 13:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26D1437C for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2225037A for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47GtGJs012676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 12:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:56:18 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <32134CB7-19F8-478A-8CC3-9A4F69D21F4B@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: FD53DC26-3B27-11DE-A707-C32B12015DA5 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090507153327.GA2238@smogmonster.local> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Joshua Tinnin Date: May 7, 2009 11:33:27 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? Reply-To: krinklyfig@gmail.com Murdoch is already talking about how this is the savior of the newspa= per industry, but what he fails to understand is that newspapers have bee= n popular for so long partly because they're cheap as a one-time purcha= se - surprising, considering his success in the newspaper industry here = and in Aus. But even the value of the one-time purchase isn't so great wh= en you can just pull up the paper's website once you get to work. Hawkers on a street corner can easily talk someone out of a quarter o= r some change, but asking someone to shell out $500 to have a reusable media source is different than asking someone to buy today's daily ne= ws for 50 cents, and even the latter is becoming more difficult. The mar= ket could easily be students if the textbook angle works out, though I wo= uld hope they'd stop exorting ... excuse me, I'd hope they'd start chargi= ng less due to reduced costs. But only fairly affluent people are going = to want to pay $500 to have a device to read the paper every day. I thin= k Murdoch assumes an eventual monopoly of the Kindle, because you can't really sell the device on the idea you can get your newspaper on it (= and what affluent person is going to haul around a 10" Kindle and a lapto= p, which can also be used to read online newspapers?). I think this type of reader device has a future. I'm not convinced th= e Kindle is the device we've been waiting for, especially if Amazon kee= ps hiking up the features and price in an era when people are looking fo= r the most value. - jt In-Reply-To: <2509DE89-6F3A-4F99-89E6-B82428B71D92@farber.net> On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 09:43:28AM -0400, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Jonathan B Spira" > Date: May 7, 2009 2:17:48 AM EDT > To: "Dave Farber" > Subject: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? > > > Dave > > A Kindle DX costs as much as an inexpensive laptop or an expensive = =20 > netbook. > Clearly neither the laptop nor netbook is as well suited for readin= g =20 > books as > a Kindle but they are far more versatile for many other purposes. > > Where will this lead? Clearly, electronic publishing in this sense = =20 > is coming > but will Kindle be the preferred answer? > > Here is my initial take on Kindle DX - http://www.basexblog.com/200= 9/05/06/ > amazon-kindle-dx-is-bigger-really-better/ > > > Regards/Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen/Sz=EDv=E9lyes =FCdv=F6zlet/Cord= ialement/=20 > Cordiali saluti > /Saludos/V=E4nliga h=E4lsningar > > /s/ Jonathan > > Jonathan B. Spira > CEO and Chief Analyst > Basex, Inc. > 8 http://www.basex.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------ > Archives [feed-icon-] = =20 > [listbox-lo] -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:40 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00901DORDB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA0078SDORG3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:22:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.49]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C1328296 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E8726788 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB6E9F4 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B02A9F3 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47IMLLm001259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 14:22:21 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <4124F8CB-995D-4F31-9F02-1F6A0FC0F98E@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 04291DF2-3B34-11DE-906B-C87AD3DCB599 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <57C04043-77F7-4BF3-9EAF-6CA138E86DBB@io.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Adam Thornton Date: May 7, 2009 2:09:34 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? For IP, if you like. On May 7, 2009, at 11:56 AM, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Joshua Tinnin ... > The market > could easily be students if the textbook angle works out, though I > would > hope they'd stop exorting ... excuse me, I'd hope they'd start > charging > less due to reduced costs. I think this is where the real play is, actually. The Kindle is a tightly sandboxed device, as I understand it, and it's already got DRM baked in. So I'm guessing that the real play is going to be getting the hardware subsidized to some degree by colleges, and then providing course materials and textbooks to the Kindle at a bit less than paper textbook prices. The trick, of course, will be that the licenses are non-transferrable and that the books expire after the school term ends. This then will remove that tendency that so irritates textbook publishers, for students to buy used copies of the textbook. However, a student that has the means for a Kindle almost certainly has the means for a notebook computer, which can be nearly as good a reader and more generally useful. That. in turn, implies that for the Kindle to succeed, the textbook content will need to be (and more importantly, to stay) Kindle-only. I don't know how impractical extracting Kindle content to a more interoperable format will turn out to be. Any newspaper that thinks the Kindle will save it is delusional. Which isn't to say there probably aren't several that have convinced themselves that it will. I personally think I would find the small form factor device much more useful than the DX. It's not yet quite to the point where I want one for myself, but I had an interesting realization a couple days ago. My mom's birthday is coming up--as is Mother's Day--and although she loves to read, her eyesight has become pretty poor. The selection of things available as large-print editions does not intersect very much with her reading tastes. The Kindle--which actually does have editions of many of the books I wanted to get her--would be an obvious choice here, simply because the print can be blown up quite large, and the reading experience, although not on a par with an expensively- printed hardback, is certainly easier on the eyes than 1980s-mass- market-paperbacks. I didn't get her one--at least not yet--because I don't know that she'd use it: although it does most of what a book does, it may not feel enough like a book to be a substitute for her. I don't think it'll make a good surprise gift, but if one of her friends gets one so she can test-drive it, I would want to revisit the question. Adam -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:41 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00901DR0K0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA0079GDQZG3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53C4FFC5 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA1717E16 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583B72950A for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:20:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB9329508 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47IKRT2015646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 14:20:26 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] When Hax0rs Strike! To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <0A04D3C4-D517-45F4-9172-C7122402D7C6@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: C4B229FC-3B33-11DE-B597-8E05F5B7D5A3 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <68FB14D0-E072-4CD8-828F-02571DA46B3F@insightbb.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Randall Date: May 7, 2009 1:20:46 PM EDT To: johnmacsgroup@yahoogroups.com, Dewayne Hendricks , David Farber Subject: When Hax0rs Strike! Hackers Break Into Virginia Health Professions Database, Demand Ransom By Brian Krebs Washington Post May 4, 2009 Hackers last week broke into a Virginia state Web site used by pharmacists to track prescription drug abuse. They deleted records on more than 8 million patients and replaced the site's homepage with a ransom note demanding $10 million for the return of the records, according to a posting on Wikileaks.org, an online clearinghouse for leaked documents. Wikileaks reports that the Web site for the Virginia Prescription Monitoring Program was defaced last week with a message claiming that the database of prescriptions had been bundled into an encrypted, password-protected file. ... http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2009/05/hackers_break_into_virginia_he.html http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Over_8M_Virginian_patient_records_held_to_ransom,_30_Apr_2009 -- The war on privilege will never end. Its next great campaign will be against the privileges of the underprivileged. H. L. Mencken -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:42 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00A01E07GD@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA007CFE06G3@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D57108DB for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41F316A1E for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D13A21 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (CHOKECHERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.117]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B07E8A20 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by chokecherry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47IOeit001369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 14:24:40 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] WHO says H1N1 pigs must be kept out of food supply | Reuters To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <3E2C059D-1435-416E-AE74-0FDA50D999B9@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_+7Ydi4Lcfef7o8gZZGFkBQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.117 X-Listbox-UUID: 55E9BF8E-3B34-11DE-9937-8567D32AF413 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_+7Ydi4Lcfef7o8gZZGFkBQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL6299708 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_+7Ydi4Lcfef7o8gZZGFkBQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL6299708

--Boundary_(ID_+7Ydi4Lcfef7o8gZZGFkBQ)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:43 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00M01HGQU9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA00GIFHGQL0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 263BF10C22 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 175CA16582 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6284E89 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B156DE88 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47Jaws1018704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 15:37:22 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Shovel-ready broadband stimulus To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <4F397949-02E4-4F93-955B-4AE75FF88E30@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 7E0BDA88-3B3E-11DE-B6B6-A75671A12D99 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4A032D9A.7010809@reed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "David P. Reed" Date: May 7, 2009 2:51:06 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Shovel-ready broadband stimulus A random, but hopefully stimulating thought: In telecom, what gets deployed *rarely* succeeds in achieving the goals for which it was invented. ISDN and AIN being an example. (another time we can discuss why...) Instead, the world tends to subvert communications infrastructure. ISDN around 1992 became the technology that enabled *dialup* 128kb ISPs, rather than "advanced telephony" and low-speed packet services. THat is never what the Bells expected from the deployment of ISDN switching. 50 Kb lines between academic computer sites, and the ARPANET exploited it and made it better. So perhaps this "broadband" will waste a lot of energy, and is targeted *all wrong* (I suspect it is, myself, anyway). But we can take it over and hack it into what it should have been. It's harder to do that now since government want to use the access networks as an arm of citizen-control policy. If we want to be able to keep it flexible to discover what it's really good for, we need to resist that imposition of policy - often hiding behind claims that the access network owner either needs an "incentive" to monetize its customers, or behind claims that the access network provides a control point for government interests (censorship, surveillance, etc.). David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Mike Todd" > Date: May 7, 2009 12:05:12 PM EDT > To: > Subject: Re: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus > > Dwayne, > > I am hoping your much more workable approach gets some reasonable > chance of becoming a reality. > > Even though the technical aspects do not seem to have a prayer of > having a chance of providing some reason to the process, getting it > out of the hands of "big money", "big government" and the "political > playground" would, at the very least, be a step in a much better > direction! > > Mike Todd > President, Mike Todd Associates - www.MikeTodd.com > > President, Internet Society Los Angeles Chapter - www.ISOC-LA.org > toddm@isoc-la.org > > Founder, Digital Divide Task Force, www.ddtf.org (undergoing updates) > miketodd@ddtf.org > > Western Trade Adjustment Assistance Center (Western TAAC) > Phoenix, Arizona program expansion center > Western Research Application Center, Viterbi School of Engineering, > University of Southern California > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farber" > To: "ip" > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 08:14 > Subject: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus > > >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) >> Date: May 6, 2009 2:21:54 PM EDT >> To: Dewayne-Net Technology List >> Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus >> >> SHOVEL-READY BROADBAND STIMULUS >> >> [Commentary] The $7.2 billion broadband stimulus will not achieve >> what it advertises for the US economy. Firms that had been >> building rural broadband networks have reportedly halted >> operations, circling back to Washington. Ultimately, the $7.2bn >> will be awarded in "beauty contests," where bureaucrats examine >> competing proposals and make their picks based on their values, >> mood, and whim. A group of 71 economists expert in >> telecommunications policy, including two Nobel Laureates (and this >> author), have urged a different approach, "reverse auctions." The >> government would state its performance criteria and then take >> bids, selecting the lowest price offers. The proposal has only a >> remote chance of being adopted because it is both transparent and >> economical. Having to make goals objective and explicit takes the >> discretionary political fun away. And assigning rights by >> competitive bidding is like having a fraternity party without any >> beer at all. >> >> >> RSS Feed: >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu May 7 16:59:44 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KZ2A4@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00B01KYZ9T@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 07 May 2009 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00001I8KOV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:00:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA00MD3I8KWE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF6328CF3 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35895651D3 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 16:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D6CC29A06 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76C129A05 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n47Jaws3018704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 15:38:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 15:38:47 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <02D689CF-716F-41E4-BE4E-DA1305EA77B0@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_NQFR2OHbIqNOiToUsqlz5g)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: B6B0CD6C-3B3E-11DE-9728-A3F01E676C5B X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <01b901c9cf49$33cc2970$9b647c50$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_NQFR2OHbIqNOiToUsqlz5g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I agree djf Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: May 7, 2009 3:22:45 PM EDT To: , "'ip'" Subject: RE: [IP] Re: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? There=92s a far bigger problem with the Kindle as a text book =20 replacement =96 page turning is far too slow for skimming and explori= ng =20 ideas. The Kindle is wonderful for linear reading of a story and has = =20 some other very nice characteristics. It=92s a very clever design and= as =20 such is very good for the intended application but has a steep slope = =20 as you shift away from its design point. -----Original Message----- =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 14:22 To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Adam Thornton Date: May 7, 2009 2:09:34 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better? For IP, if you like. On May 7, 2009, at 11:56 AM, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Joshua Tinnin =2E.. > The market > could easily be students if the textbook angle works out, though I > would > hope they'd stop exorting ... excuse me, I'd hope they'd start > charging > less due to reduced costs. I think this is where the real play is, actually. The Kindle is a tightly sandboxed device, as I understand it, and it'= s already got DRM baked in. So I'm guessing that the real play is going to be getting the hardwar= e subsidized to some degree by colleges, and then providing course materials and textbooks to the Kindle at a bit less than paper textbook prices. The trick, of course, will be that the licenses are non-transferrable and that the books expire after the school term ends. This then will remove that tendency that so irritates textbook publishers, for students to buy used copies of the textbook. However, a student that has the means for a Kindle almost certainly has the means for a notebook computer, which can be nearly as good a reader and more generally useful. That. in turn, implies that for th= e Kindle to succeed, the textbook content will need to be (and more importantly, to stay) Kindle-only. I don't know how impractical extracting Kindle content to a more interoperable format will turn ou= t to be. Any newspaper that thinks the Kindle will save it is delusional. Which isn't to say there probably aren't several that have convinced themselves that it will. I personally think I would find the small form factor device much mor= e useful than the DX. It's not yet quite to the point where I want one for myself, but I had an interesting realization a couple days ago. My mom's birthday is coming up--as is Mother's Day--and although she loves to read, her eyesight has become pretty poor. The selection of things available as large-print editions does not intersect very much with her reading tastes. The Kindle--which actually does have editions of many of the books I wanted to get her--would be an obviou= s choice here, simply because the print can be blown up quite large, an= d the reading experience, although not on a par with an expensively- printed hardback, is certainly easier on the eyes than 1980s-mass- market-paperbacks. I didn't get her one--at least not yet--because I don't know that she'd use it: although it does most of what a book does, it may not feel enough like a book to be a substitute for her. I don't think it'll make a good surprise gift, but if one of her friends gets one s= o she can test-drive it, I would want to revisit the question. Adam ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_NQFR2OHbIqNOiToUsqlz5g) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I agree djf

Begin forwarded message:
There=92s a far bigger problem with the Kind= le as a text book replacement =96 page turning is far too slow for sk= imming and exploring ideas. The Kindle is wonderful for linear readin= g of a story and has some other very nice characteristics. It=92s a v= ery clever design and as such is very good for the intended applicati= on but has a steep slope as you shift away from its design point.
&n= bsp;
 
-----Original Message-----
From: David Fa= rber [mailto:dave@farber.net] 
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 14:= 22
To: ip
Subject: [IP] Re: New Kindle DX introduced - is bigge= r better?
 
 
 =
Begin forwarded message:
 <= /div>
From: Adam Thornton <adam@io.com>
Date: May 7, 2009 2:09:34 PM EDT
Subject: Re: [IP] Re:   New Kind= le DX introduced - is bigger better?
 =
For IP, if you like.
 
On May= 7, 2009, at 11:56 AM, David Farber wrote:
 =
> 
> 
> B= egin forwarded message:
> 
>= From: Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@gmail.com<= /a>>
=  
> The market
> could easily be students if the textbook angle works out, thoug= h I 
> would
> hope they'd s= top exorting ... excuse me, I'd hope they'd start 
> less due to reduced costs.
 
I think this is where the real play is= , actually.
 
The Kindle is a tigh= tly sandboxed device, as I understand it, and it's 
 
So = I'm guessing that the real play is going to be getting the hardware&n= bsp;
subsidized to some degree by colleges, and then p= roviding course 
materials and textbooks to the K= indle at a bit less than paper 
textbook prices.&= nbsp; The trick, of course, will be that the licenses are <= /o:p>
non-transferrable and that the books expire after the schoo= l term 
ends.  This then will remove that te= ndency that so irritates textbook 
publishers,= for students to buy used copies of the textbook.
 
However, a student that has the means for a Kindle = almost certainly 
has the means for a notebook co= mputer, which can be nearly as good a 
reader and= more generally useful.  That. in turn, implies that for the&nbs= p;
Kindle to succeed, the textbook content will need t= o be (and more 
importantly, to stay) Kindle-only= .  I don't know how impractical 
extracting = Kindle content to a more interoperable format will turn out 
to be.
 
Any newspap= er that thinks the Kindle will save it is delusional.  
Which isn't to say there probably aren't several that hav= e convinced 
themselves that it will.<= /div>
 
I personally think I would find the small f= orm factor device much more 
useful than the DX. = It's not yet quite to the point where I want one 
for myself, but I had an interesting realization a couple days ago.&= nbsp; 
My mom's birthday is coming up--as is Moth= er's Day--and although she 
loves to read, her ey= esight has become pretty poor.  The selection of 
things available as large-print editions does not intersect ver= y much 
with her reading tastes.  The Kindle= --which actually does have 
editions of many of t= he books I wanted to get her--would be an obvious 
the reading experience, although not on a pa= r with an expensively-
printed hardback, is certainly = easier on the eyes than 1980s-mass-
market-paperbacks.=
 
I didn't get her one--at least = not yet--because I don't know that 
she'd use i= t: although it does most of what a book does, it may not 
feel enough like a book to be a substitute for her.  I = don't think 
it'll make a good surprise gift, but= if one of her friends gets one so 
she can tes= t-drive it, I would want to revisit the question.
 
Adam
 
&nbs= p;
 
 
-----------= --------------------------------
 ht= tp://www.listbox.com
Archives
--Boundary_(ID_NQFR2OHbIqNOiToUsqlz5g)--   From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri May 8 07:38:47 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJB00201POHFN@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 08 May 2009 07:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJB00201POBFE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 08 May 2009 07:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KJA00001YF398@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 21:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KJA00O54YF3UA@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 07 May 2009 21:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41502F45A for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 21:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 319931794A for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 21:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 818484F9 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 21:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by a-lb-mx-fastnet.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4F54F8 for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 21:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-71-206-239-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.206.239.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n481me2n025867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 07 May 2009 21:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 21:48:39 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Licensed vs. Unlicensed Wireless Spectrum and Plato's Children To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_+CME1murjQudTx+d8XGwcg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 5DA76198-3B72-11DE-841A-A8A6BC705453 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <000001c9cf7d$26ccfe00$7466fa00$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_+CME1murjQudTx+d8XGwcg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: May 7, 2009 9:34:36 PM EDT To: "'Charles Brown'" Cc: "'Dewayne Hendricks'" , "'Dewayne-Net = =20 Technology List'" , "'Prof. David J. J Farber'" = Subject: RE: Licensed vs. Unlicensed Wireless Spectrum and Plato's = =20 Children While I want to encourage the enthusiasm behind NN I recognize that = =20 it=92s too much about fixing telecom rather than fundamental change. = =20 Alas, as per my =93cherry=94 example it=92s very hard for people to h= ear =20 anything without slotting it into the old. This is why I=92m now framing the issue more in terms of the =93value= =20 chain=94 and using the example of how the IBM consent decree liberate= d =20 the value contained in computing hardware beyond IBM=92s designated = =20 application. Does that work any better =96 telecom is a nonstarter he= re =96=20 it=92s just one application. All that infrastructure and all we get i= s =20 telecom. The so-called private stuff is more a privateer model than a= =20 market model If you want a reminder of absurd the current twisting winding passage= s =20 model is watch http://www.bnettv.com/player.php?id=3D2536 and see how= =20 the cellular industry so desperately tries to warp itself into the ol= d =20 framing no matter how absurd. Of course the FCC rewards them by =20 protecting from reality. =46rom: Charles Brown [mailto:cbrown@flyingcircuit.com] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 17:35 To: Bob Frankston Cc: Charles Brown; 'Dewayne Hendricks'; 'Dewayne-Net Technology List'= ; =20 Prof. David J. J Farber Subject: Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed Wireless Spectrum and Plato's = =20 Children On May 7, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Bob Frankston wrote: Before I concur the real question is how do we get past the conceptua= l =20 barrier that keeps slipping back into the same-old policies? I can= =92t =20 help but think of the time I ordered vanilla ice cream with whip crea= m =20 and nuts and was told that I couldn=92t have it because the IHOP was = out =20 of cherries. How do we defy the tendency to view everything in terms = =20 of the familiar framings =96 in this case, the Regulatorium=92s insis= tence =20 on defining services and auctioning off property? Yes, you have made this point very well in your writings and it's an = =20 important issue. At the risk of sounding presumptuous, I think we need a new =20 terminology or lexicon, perhaps even a new "ontology" to describe the= =20 world around us in this regard. This seems much more vital to the = =20 debate than spending $300 million of mapping broadband access in the = =20 US or taking an inventory of spectrum use, which varies by the day. = =20 Most people can't even agree on what the term "broadband" means. The situation now is that terminology and meaning are supplied and = =20 manipulated by the press, lawyers, corporations, Congress and Wall = =20 Street. That's a formidable group to overcome but a good way to star= t =20 would be with new words that would promote new ways of thinking about= =20 the same phenomenon. E.g., ideas like "network neutrality" might hav= e =20 started out with a clear meaning to someone, but soon became chewed = =20 and digested into complexity by all sorts of actors, not the least = =20 being the duopoly themselves. Just look at this phrase: it says = =20 nothing. Does it imply a political position to be taken in an =20 existing cyber war or some such phenomenon? It sounds like you want = =20 to be a neutral actor (Switzerland) in the struggle. It seems to me that the cost-benefit of such an enterprise would be = =20 enormous when compared to the way the problem is attacked now, with = =20 Google being the foremost example in mind. That is not to say that = =20 New America and some of their other "beltway promoters" are not doing= =20 good work, but it is marginalized for the reasons you state. And are= =20 Google's and the public's interests the same? The debate takes place= =20 in the same old theatre of ideas, described by a worn and useless = =20 terminology trotted-out when required to maintain the status quo. = =20 We change the terminology and we change the debate. Further, I think the spreading and use of this new terminology would = =20 be possible through various means, some of which I'm sure you can = =20 imagine too. We make the old terminology look foolish, worn and "un-= =20 hip" and there are a few more "un-'s" you have already thought of. = I =20 think this is the place to start. I agree that selling spectrum by the acre is indeed bad idea and the = =20 discussion is driven too much by fiber mongers and radio mongers. But we already have the technologies. We need to simply recognize tha= t =20 bits are bits and wired vs wireless doesn=92t matter to the bits. We = can =20 then normalize the infrastructure to bits and in doing so create = =20 abundance. (What I=92m calling the Bit Commons). We=92d then have a = =20 vibrant market taking advantage of the opportunities. If we had protocols that made it easy to transit from wireless to = =20 wired (or fiber) paths via hundreds of millions of existing =93access= =20 points=94 (AKA wired=F3wireless routers and switches) we=92d find we = already =20 have abundant capacity and don=92t need power-gulping transmitters to= =20 get the bits across in a single hop by shouting loudly and annoying = =20 everyone in the surrounding area. Femtocell seeks to achieve something similar within the context of th= e =20 cellco, "private infrastructure", but for the purpose of off-loading = =20 traffic from the wireless network. But note that the duopoly owns th= e =20 gateway access (wired=F3wireless routers and switches) in this model,= =20 and the "squeeze play" is moving right along. As per the FT story, what we need is the ability to go back to realit= y =20 and discover what we can do with the physical infrastructures. Alas, instead we have economists acting as Plato=92s children with th= eir =20 fanciful ideal models substituting for reality. If someone so much as= =20 hints that the real world may be different he=92s considered a hereti= c =20 like the guy who showed that the square root of two is irrational. = =20 Where is Aristotle when we need him? http://frankston.com/?name=3DTelecomPrison. I agree, and take your point about flattening-out the existing =20 infrastructure into a Bit Commons to achieve leverage of the existing= =20 investment, but that investment is considered "private" and is now = =20 protected under common law and unregulated. I don't know if that is= =20 all the infrastructure we would need since the realization of the bit= =20 commons might invoke a dynamic elastic demand curve; demand increase= s =20 when prices drop, and particularly, in the case of eliminating curren= t =20 AUP restrictions. Of course, the broader economic effects upon many business models = =20 would be devastating. They control Congress and antitrust common law= =20 is neutralized by their puppies at the FCC. You need to hit them = =20 where it will hurt; in the world of ideas and fashion (many American= s =20 are nothing if not fashionable), and rely on the 1st and 4th =20 Amendments when they try to obliterate you. Charlie -----Original Message----- =46rom: dewayne-net [mailto:dewayne-net@warpspeed.com] On Behalf Of = =20 Dewayne Hendricks Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:58 To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Re: Smart Grid Debate: Licensed vs. Unlicensed= =20 Wireless Spectrum [Note: This comment comes from friend Charles Brown. DLH] =46rom: Charles Brown Date: May 6, 2009 2:43:36 PM PDT To: Dewayne Hendricks Cc: Charles Brown Subject: Re: [Dewayne-Net] Smart Grid Debate: Licensed vs. Unlicensed Wireless Spectrum Dewayne, Here we go again; the usual "spectrum as land" metaphor. This looks like another ploy for spectrum via backroom deals in Congress and the FCC, or "public-private partnerships." And we have the press covering the" licensed vs unlicensed debate", yet again. The utilities are doing what everyone else does in their position at this point: "Hey, let's use this to go get our own spectrum. Our shareholders will love us!" How about a debate called "technical ignorance and economic corruptio= n vs. science and free markets." What if we referred to spectrum as "dark matter" or "electric air" or "green sky" instead of real estate. How many times have you heard auctionable spectrum referred to as "beach front property", as the 700MHz spectrum was referred to in the press. However, we can't contain it, divide it up, measure it, nor do we understand its true capacity, notwithstanding Shannon. But we can put a deed on it! We can measure Eb/No but that's beside the point here. And putting a price tag on spectrum inhibits services, increases costs, facilitate= s corruption and stifles innovation and employment in the wireless industry. Look at the US: Motorola has become a commodity company whose longevity is questionable and Qualcomm has morphed into a chip company reliant on its IP lawyers. So where is the innovation in the US? At all of those new WiMax companies? Instead of arguing about licensed vs unlicensed, wouldn't it be bette= r to take the money they are going to waste and invest it in new technology development that would change the nature of the discussion? This is the way to get out in front again. The commercial vendors don't have much in the way of advanced wireless technology for the "smart grid", however it is being subjectively defined. The smart grid is reading and controlling meters? You may remember a company called "Cellnet" that was doing AMR (automated meter reading) 20 years ago in the 900MHz band using spread spectrum modulation; yes, that was 20 years ago, and these guys are doing the same thing. Take a utility company with low bandwidth application requirements. With the right know-how and off-the-shelf components, a knowledgeable group could create a scalable, low cost network, and get an open, product reference platform in the nature of a Software Defined Radio in the bargain. In fact, the utilities should be careful because it'= s just a matter of time, money and need before the "beach front property" gets hit by a tsunami. And then what might their shareholders say? This article might be retitled, "WiMax vendors looking for a free beer, at the beach." Charlie RSS Feed: ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_+CME1murjQudTx+d8XGwcg) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: May 7, 200= 9 9:34:36 PM EDT
To: "'Charles Brown'" <cbrown@flyingcircuit.com>=
Cc: = "'Dewayne Hendricks'" <dewayne@warpspeed.com>, "'Dewayne-Net Technology List= '" <xyzzy@warpspeed.com= >, "'Prof. David J. J Farber'" <dave@farber.net>
Subject: RE: Licensed vs. = Unlicensed Wireless Spectrum and Plato's Children

While I want to encourage the enthusiasm behind NN I= recognize that it=92s too much about fixing telecom rather than fund= amental change. Alas, as per my =93cherry=94 example it=92s very hard= for people to hear anything without slotting it into the old.
 
This is why I= =92m now framing the issue more in terms of the =93value chain=94 and= using the example of how the IBM consent decree liberated the value = contained in computing hardware beyond IBM=92s designated application= . Does that work any better =96 telecom is a nonstarter here =96it= =92s just one application. All that infrastructure and all we get is = telecom. The so-called private stuff is more a privateer model than a= market model
 
If you want a reminder of absurd the current twisting winding pas= sages model is watch <= a href=3D"http://www.bnettv.com/player.php?id=3D2536" style=3D"color:= blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.bnettv.com/player.php= ?id=3D2536 and = see how the cellular industry so desperately tries to warp itself int= o the old framing no matter how absurd. Of course the FCC rewards the= m by protecting from reality.
 
From:=  Charles B= rown [mailto:cbrown@flyingcircuit.com]=  
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 20= 09 17:35
To: Bob Frankston
Cc:=  Charles Brown; 'Dewayne Hendricks'; 'Dewayne-Net Technol= ogy List'; Prof. David J. J Farber
Subject: Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed Wirele= ss Spectrum and Plato's Children
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.000= 1pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman= ', serif; "> 
 
On May 7, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Bob Frankston w= rote:


Before I concur the real questi= on is how do we get past the conceptual barrier that keeps slipping b= ack into the same-old policies? I can=92t help but think of the time = I ordered vanilla ice cream with whip cream and nuts and was told tha= t I couldn=92t have it because the IHOP was out of cherries. How do w= e defy the tendency to view everything in terms of the familiar frami= ngs =96 in this case, the Regulatorium=92s insistence on defining ser= vices and auctioning off property?
 
<= /div>
Yes, you have made this point very well in your wri= tings and it's an important issue.
At the risk of soun= ding presumptuous, I think we need a new terminology or lexicon, perh= aps even a new "ontology" to describe the world around us in this reg= ard.  This seems much more vital to the debate than spending $30= 0 million of mapping broadband access in the US or taking an inventor= y of spectrum use, which varies by the day.  Most people can't e= ven agree on what the term "broadband" means.  
=
 
 
=
It seems to me that the cost-benefit of such = an enterprise would be enormous when compared to the way the problem = is attacked now, with Google being the foremost example in mind. &nbs= p;That is not to say that New America and some of their other "beltwa= y promoters" are not doing good work, but it is marginalized for the = reasons you state.  And are Google's and the public's interests = the same?  The debate takes place in the same old theatre of ide= as, described by a worn and useless terminology trotted-out when requ= ired to maintain the status quo.    We change the terminolo= gy and we change the debate.  
 
Further, I thin= k the spreading and use of this new terminology would be possible thr= ough various means, some of which I'm sure you can imagine too.  = ;We make the old terminology look foolish, worn and "un-hip" and ther= e are a few more "un-'s" you have already thought of.   I t= hink this is the place to start.
I agree that selling spectrum by the acre is inde= ed bad idea and the discussion is driven too much by fiber mongers an= d radio mongers.
 
But we already have the= technologies. We need to simply recognize that bits are bits and wir= ed vs wireless doesn=92t matter to the bits. We can then normalize th= e infrastructure to bits and in doing so create abundance. (What I= =92m calling the Bit Commons). We=92d then have a vibrant market taki= ng advantage of the opportunities.
 If we= had protocols that made it easy to transit from wireless to wired (o= r fiber) paths via hundreds of millions of existing =93access points= =94 (AKA wired=F3wireless routers and s= witches) we=92d find we already have abundant capacity and don=92t ne= ed power-gulping transmitters to get the bits across in a single hop = by shouting loudly and annoying everyone in the surrounding area.
 
Femtocell seeks to a= chieve something similar within the context of the cellco, "private i= nfrastructure", but for the purpose of off-loading traffic from the w= ireless network.  But note that the duopoly owns the gateway acc= ess (wired=F3wireless = routers and switches)<= span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans', sans-serif= ; "> in this model, and the "squeeze play" is moving right along= .
 
As per the FT story, what we need is the abil= ity to go back to reality and discover what we can do with the physic= al infrastructures.
=
 <= /span>
Alas, instead we hav= e economists acting as Plato=92s children with their fanciful ideal m= odels substituting for reality. If someone so much as hints that the = real world may be different he=92s considered a heretic like the guy = who showed that the square root of two is irrational. Where is Aristo= tle when we need him?
 
I agree, and take your point a= bout flattening-out the existing infrastructure into a Bit Commons to= achieve leverage of the existing investment, but that investment is = considered "private" and is now protected under common law and unregu= lated.   I don't know if that is all the infrastructure we would= need since the realization of the bit commons might invoke a dynamic= elastic demand curve;  demand increases when prices drop, and p= articularly, in the case of eliminating current AUP restrictions. &nb= sp;
 
Of course, the broader economic effects upon ma= ny business models would be devastating.  They control Congress = and antitrust common law is neutralized by their puppies at the FCC. =  You need to hit them where it will hurt;  in the world of = ideas and fashion (many Americans are nothing if not fashionable), an= d rely on the 1st and 4th Amendments when they try to obliterate you.=
 
Charlie

 
 -----Original M= essage-----
From: dewayne-net [mailto:= dewayne-net@warpspeed.com] On Behalf Of Dewayne Hendricks
Sent= : Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:58
To: Dewayne-Net Technology List
= Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Re: Smart Grid Debate: Licensed vs. Unlicensed= Wireless Spectrum
 
[Note:&= nbsp; This comment comes from friend Charles Brown.  DLH]
 =
From: Charles Brown <cbrown@flyingcircuit.com>
Date: May 6, 2009 2:43:36 PM PDT
To: Dewayne Hendric= ks <dewayne@warpspeed.com>
Cc: Charles Brown <cbrown@flyingcircuit.com>
Subject: Re: [Dewayne-Net] Smar= t Grid Debate: Licensed vs. Unlicensed 
<= /div>
Wireless Spectrum
<= /div>
 
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.000= 1pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman= ', serif; ">Dewayne,
 

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: May 7, 200= 9 12:08:55 PM EDT
Cc: "'Dewayne Hendricks'" <= ;dewayne@warpspeed.com><= /font>
Subject: RE: [IP] Shovel-ready broadband stimulus<= /font>

Fro= m: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: May 7, 2009 3:22:45 PM EDT
Subject: <= font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><= b>RE: [IP] Re:    New Kindle DX introduced - is bigger better?