List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_floHy+q9T1mb0xHPUjDurQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/07/solving-the-mystery-of-the-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic.html MIT researchers have explained why two mutations in the H1N1 avian flu virus were critical for viral transmission in humans during the 1918 pandemic outbreak that killed at least 50 million people -believed more than that taken by the Black Death, and higher than the number killed in World War I. The 1918 flu pandemic -commonly known as the Spanish flu- was an influenza pandemic that started in the United States, appeared in West Africa and France and then spread to nearly every part of the globe in three waves lasting from March 1918 to June 1920, spreading to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. It was caused by an unusually severe and deadly Influenza A virus strain of subtype H1N1. In contrast to most influenza outbreaks which predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or otherwise weakened patients, the Spanish Flu also claimed healthy young adults, resulting from infection rates of up to 50% and the extreme severity of the symptoms, suspected to be caused by cytokine storms. The disease was first discovered at Fort Riley, Kansasand Queens, New York , in 1918. In August 1918, a more virulent strain appeared simultaneously in Brest, France, in West Africa at Freetown, Sierra Leone, and in the U.S. at Boston, Massachusetts. The Allies of World War I came to call it the Spanish Flu, primarily because the pandemic received greater press attention after it moved from France to Spain in November of 1918. The MIT team showed that the 1918 influenza strain developed two mutations in a surface molecule called hemagglutinin (HA), which allowed it to bind tightly to receptors in the human upper respiratory tract. snip ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_floHy+q9T1mb0xHPUjDurQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_= weblog/2009/07/solving-the-mystery-of-the-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic.h= tml

MIT researchers have expl= ained why two mutations in the H1N1 avian flu virus were critical for= viral transmission in humans during the 1918 pandemic outbreak that = killed at least 50 million people -believed more than that taken by t= he Black Death, and higher than the number killed in World War I.

The 1918 flu pandemic -comm= only known as the Spanish flu- was an influenza pandemic that started= in the United States, appeared in West Africa and France and then sp= read to nearly every part of the globe in three waves lasting from Ma= rch 1918 to June 1920, spreading to the Arctic and remote Pacific isl= ands. It was caused by an unusually severe and deadly Influenza A vir= us strain of subtype H1N1. In contrast to most influenza outbreaks wh= ich predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or otherwise weakened pat= ients, the Spanish Flu also claimed healthy young adults, resulting f= rom infection rates of up to 50% and the extreme severity of the symp= toms, suspected to be caused by cytokine storms.

The disease w= as first discovered at Fort Riley, Kansasand Queens, New York , in 19= 18. In August 1918, a more virulent strain appeared simultaneously in= Brest, France, in West Africa at Freetown, Sierra Leone, and in the = U.S. at Boston, Massachusetts. The Allies of World War I came to call= it the Spanish Flu, primarily because the pandemic received greater = press attention after it moved from France to Spain in November of 19= 18.

The MIT team showed that the 1918 influenza strain d= eveloped two mutations in a surface molecule called hemagglutinin (HA= ), which allowed it to bind tightly to receptors in the human upper r= espiratory tract.

snip

Archives

--Boundary_(ID_floHy+q9T1mb0xHPUjDurQ)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 08:47:04 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I6CZU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I69ZN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM600I013DH5Y@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM600A7R3DHSR@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE1E807C for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B229906E for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7F3157A for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5193C1579 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.7] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n62IaouF000044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:36:49 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Regina E. Dugan New Director Of DARPA To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <26C9EBB2-FA82-4925-A55A-E28AC42B02B9@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_DkCfEPMsIBRq7FkLrvkIPQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 514DF650-6737-11DE-B2E9-A547C0839C61 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_DkCfEPMsIBRq7FkLrvkIPQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=12784 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_DkCfEPMsIBRq7FkLrvkIPQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=12784

--Boundary_(ID_DkCfEPMsIBRq7FkLrvkIPQ)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 08:47:05 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I6CZU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I69ZN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM600I013JDKV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM600CL13JDJR@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C666A5BB for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0997EAE52 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258479AF3 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCAB19AF1 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.7] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n62IeFM6024912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:40:15 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Follow the money -- $12 million !!!! A comment by Esther Dyson -- Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. [with comments] To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <48F2C667-B8D7-4A4C-8555-72BD9DC09B19@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: CA1F5F4C-6737-11DE-9FFC-79A1CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Just what % of the travel budget goes to which group? djf Begin forwarded message: From: Ross Rader Date: July 2, 2009 11:38:32 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! A comment by Esther Dyson -- Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. [with comments] David, please feel free to share this with IP if you wish. On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:54 AM, David Farber wrote: > This is a total waste of money. > > The Internet doesn't need a travel budget. Having spent some time at the latest ICANN meeting, I can say that a good portion of the travel fund is being put to good use. I had the good fortune of spending some time with participants in ICANN's fellowship program which brings interested parties from developing regions to ICANN meetings, fully funded. Each of the participants was engaged, thoughtful and passionate, and a welcome counter-balance to the consultants, lobbyists, lawyers and other hanger-ons that have weighed ICANN down for far too long. That said, there is waste in the travel budget. These same consultants, lobbyists and lawyers voted themselves a fat funding package not too long ago using the argument that if ICANN is funding some participants in the process, that all should be funded. ICANN's biggest problem isn't ICANN, but the ICANN community. To solve this, the consultants, lobbyists and lawyers must be replaced with legitimate stakeholders (users of the DNS, for instance). Steps are being taken towards this, but the process would benefit greatly from further support and involvement. /ross (obDisclaimer: I work for an ICANN accredited registrar. I am a member of ICANN's board nominating committee, elected to represent North American At-Large users and along with all members of the nominating committee, received travel support to attend this meeting.) ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 08:47:06 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I6CZU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I69ZN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM600I013MEWY@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM600CKI3MET6@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24595A94C for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2216EA667 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D42E9B05 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D5C9B04 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.7] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n62IfMGw000935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:21 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: A comment by Esther Dyson -- Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. [with comments] To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: F344EC20-6737-11DE-B2A4-45ACCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <200907021431.n62EVJIB021149@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Thomas Narten Date: July 2, 2009 10:31:19 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] Re: A comment by Esther Dyson -- Icann Hires Former= =20 Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. [with comments] For IP, if you wish... Truth in advertising: I'm the IETF liaison to the ICANN board and hav= e watched this space for about 4 years now. So perhaps I'm tainted. Tha= t said, I find some of the recent discussion about ICANN to be almost surreal. Lauren Weinstein > 1) The more TLDs that are introduced, the more confusion there is > among both domain name holders and the Internet user community i= n > general (that is, the population of the world). This may be true. But I have to ask what does "confusion" mean exactly, and how does one define "harm" associated with such confusion. If I happen to have the name "google", does that mean any other use of "google" in any domain name is confusing? Probably, at least to somebody. But what exactly can anyone do about that, given that there are already 250+ TLDs and there is almost no limit to how names (and close variants like, say, ugoogle or googlesux) can be use= d at the second level? And, to turn things around, in the US, any name under ".com" is recognized as being a domain name, which means ".com" has brand/marke= t value. Indeed, in the US, the value of the .com brand appears to be substantial, if one just looks at the number of registrations in .com vs. other TLDs (see http://www.domaintools.com/internet-statistics/) Active =09TLD 81M=09.com 12M=09.net 7,7M=09.org 5,2M=09.info 2M=09.biz 1,6M=09.us One of the frequent criticisms I hear of ICANN is that there is no alternative to .com, and thus ICANN is effectively supporting the status quo. Seems to me that we'll never get away from .com's dominance if there are no alternatives... But the above is a US-centric view. Elsewhere in the world (e.g., .cn= , =2Ede), ccTLDs have more brand value and are often preferred over nam= es such as .com. > As such, the main > TLDs already in common use (com, net, org, edu + country TLDs) > gain in value and demand since they will increasingly stand out > amongst the clutter of MOBIes, SEXies, WIMPies, WACKies, and who > knows what else, most of which will quite rightly be treated by > consumers as confusing nonsense. An interesting hypothesis: by creating more TLDs, we are actually increasing the demand for names within existing TLDs, i.e., we are increasing the total overall demand for names! > The driving force behind the > introduction of new TLDs at this stage is creating new profit > centers through consumer confusion, and ICANN has become the > primary enabler of a domain name regime that we can charitably > categorize as just one notch short of a scam. This is simplistic reasoning. Many people argue all the "good" names in existing TLDs have already been taken (or are being held by speculators and such on the secondary market). Creating more TLDs increases the total number of available second-level domain names. An= d within ICANN, even ALAC is pushing for opening up the TLD space quickly, to create more names for registrants. Also, just last week, I had a conversation with a person very familia= r with the domain name market who mentioned that a particular domain name under .com had recently been auctioned off for over $300K. For that particular name, all the "good" variants related to that name were already in use, and the company wanting the name couldn't find a good (cheap) alternative to the name being auctioned. He went on to say that opening up the TLD space will change a lot of that, because it will potentially increase the number of available names related to "foo" (e.g., foo.phone, or phone.foo, etc.) This will decrease the monetary value of many existing names on the secondary market, presumably benefitting consumers/registrants. "Bob Frankston" writes: > Whatever the original mission of ICANN was we=E2=80=99ve learned a = lot since > then we need to do more than spawn lots of little NSIs =E2=80=93 th= at=E2=80=99s =20 > not > competition, it=E2=80=99s just a feeding frenzy. ICANN isn=E2=80= =99t addressing =20 > the > fundamental dysfunction and failures of the DNS: > > =C2=B7 The DNS cannot be a directory but adding support for= more > languages only reinforces that misconception. So, are you arguing that the DNS stay restricted to latin-only characters? This, when the majority of people in the world don't speak/understand English (or any *one* language, for that matter)? An= d those same people may not even have keyboards or user input devices capable of inputing characters in languages other than their own? Given the importance of DNS names to end users (end users type them in, put them on business cards, advertise DNS names/URLs on television, etc.), it seems to me a non-starter to continue to restrict DNS names to latin-only scripts. > =C2=B7 We still don=E2=80=99t stable identifiers =E2=80= =93 the new gTLDs just > continue the tradition of creating billable events. > =09 > > A fundamental principle of the Internet is that those outside the > network create their own solutions. Yet the DNS has turned out to h= ave > been a failure =E2=80=93 it keeps control firmly inside the network= and it=E2=20 > =80=99s > very existence frustrates efforts to move on. The DNS a failure? That's a good one. The DNS is an *essential* part of the Internet. The internet wouldn't exist without DNS names. Full Stop. And it does not keep control "inside the network". 99.9% of the DNS i= s operated in a distributed fashion *without* a single point of failure. And even at the root-level, there is quite a bit more redundency than many people realize. E.g., thanks to anycasting, ther= e are over 100 root servers, not just the 13 many people think. (see https://prefix.pch.net/applications/ixpdir/summary/root-servers/) Sure, I could imagine a nicer system than the DNS, that satisfied a long wish list of nice-to-have requirements, but the reality is we don't have such a naming system, and we really don't know how to buil= d one that scales to the size of the Internet. Really. (For those of yo= u who think there is a better system, please provide a reference.) > ICANN should be doing > all it can to deprecate the DNS. As an interim the DNS should > immediately and without any further ado provide for stable handles > that don=E2=80=99t have semantic baggage and thus have no need to b= e > reused. It should then encourage others like WIPO and private > companies like Google, Skype, Microsoft etc to provide their own > directory and registry services Nobody is preventing anyone from coming up with a new/better system. But until we actually have one, and people actually agree its an improvement over the existing DNS, and there is a realistic plan for how to deploy it and transition to it, talk is cheap. > Ultimately we mustn=E2=80=99t have to a fatal dependency on a singl= e central > point of failure and control like the DNS. The DNS does have a centralized "root". But if you think about it, it's hard to avoid having something like that. In any naming system (especially a *global* naming system), one has to have a way of arbibtrating disputes. If any two parties choose the same name, who gets to have it? Someone or something has to be authoritative. If you don't have a way of arbitrating such disputes, you get massive user confusion, because names no longer have globally consistent meaning. When I provide my email address to someone in china, they want that email address (with its embedded DNS name) to refer to me, and only me. > To put it another way =E2=80=93 ICANN is a finger in the dike. We s= houldn=E2=20 > =80=99t > treat it as a solution but rather a reminder that dike is in desper= ate > need of repair. Can an outsider provide the kind of stronger > leadership necessary to move ICANN beyond its original mission so i= t > can do what has to be done to assure the continued vibrancy of the > dynamic we call =1B-Y=CE=84The Internet=E2=80=98? In some ways, I view ICANN as the worst form of management of the DNS space. Except for all the others that have been invented or could be imagined. Talk is cheap when it comes to finding faults in ICANN or the model. But actually desiging a better system, one that actually addresses the vast range of requirements, constraints and competing interests any better than ICANN (and that people would support as a better alternative) is a real challenge. Thomas ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 08:47:07 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I6CZU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I69ZN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM600I013N0XF@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM600CGI3MZSF@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7612ADF3 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4D5FABDF for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB06A9B33 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 366FD9B1B for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.7] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n62IfMGx000935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:41:57 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: $12 million !!!! To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <8E22A1C2-ABBD-4088-A964-D6DE5C9D512C@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 06CB299E-6738-11DE-B212-113CCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Richard Perlman Date: July 2, 2009 10:09:13 AM EDT To: David Farber , ip Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! For IP if you wish... I think Marshal Rose's MFLD* comment (I believe re: the IETF) might apply here as well. *(Many Fine Lunches and Dinners) O ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 08:47:08 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I6CZU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I69ZN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM600C01ASB84@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM600461ASBU9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E1FA849 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B2CAB35 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809D2A8F3 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 515C2A8F2 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n62LGkX8027685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:16:45 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <02C916D8-3555-4B77-8203-00DBA5787A29@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: A9069AF8-674D-11DE-947A-8891CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <018e01c9fb4a$2d359dd0$87a0d970$@us> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Richard Shockey" Date: July 2, 2009 3:20:34 PM EDT To: Subject: RE: [IP] Re: $12 million !!!! Well as a long time IETF participant WG chair etc I take considerable offence to that note. All of us pay our own expenses to IETF meetings and the secretariat is principally funded by the attendance fees with considerable help from ISOC. The current ICANN budget for 09 is nearly 61 Million total which is nearly unbelievable to some of us since ICANN essentially does nothing but act as a taxation authority for GTLD's. To even suggest that ICANN is the 'governing body of the Internet" is nearly laughable on its face since it operates only on voluntary compliance with a series RFC, nothing more. Google and now BING have ended the argument once and for all on the utility of more GTLD's but what the heck if you want 10,000 or so it won't make any difference that is a proven engineering fact.. open up the 3 letter ISO 3166 codes to Nation States if folks really think there is a problem. Of course that ICANN does not do very much is fine with the real Internet Engineering community since the last thing the Internet needs is a regulator. However as a newly unemployed IP engineer there may be some utility to sticking my head in the ICANN consultant troth from time to time. > From: Richard Perlman > Date: July 2, 2009 10:09:13 AM EDT > To: David Farber , ip > Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! > > For IP if you wish... > > I think Marshal Rose's MFLD* comment (I believe re: the IETF) might > apply > here as well. > ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 08:47:09 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I6CZU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I69ZN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM600601HZ6C0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM600OO6HZ502@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3FF887D3 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 037F49E1D for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9561495 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAC941493 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n62NqNil018178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:52:23 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <38678237-690F-4948-861F-C4171A684AD7@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 65659DCE-6763-11DE-973E-C0EBAA9F5871 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <875669F4-759B-442B-BFAF-7E6051A12D4B@gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Bob Hinden Date: July 2, 2009 6:12:16 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: Bob Hinden , Richard Shockey Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M Dave, For IP, if you wish. What Richard said is correct. Speaking as the IETF Administrative Oversight Committee (IAOC) chair, the IETF annual budget runs about $5M year, with attendance fees and sponsorships paying for about 2/3 of that and the ISOC paying for the remainder. Lots of detail at: http://iaoc.ietf.org/budget.html It would appear that ICANN spends more than 2x on travel per year than the total cost to run the IETF. Bob On Jul 2, 2009, at 2:16 PM, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Richard Shockey" > Date: July 2, 2009 3:20:34 PM EDT > To: > Subject: RE: [IP] Re: $12 million !!!! > > > Well as a long time IETF participant WG chair etc I take considerable > offence to that note. > > All of us pay our own expenses to IETF meetings and the secretariat is > principally funded by the attendance fees with considerable help > from ISOC. > > The current ICANN budget for 09 is nearly 61 Million total which is > nearly > unbelievable to some of us since ICANN essentially does nothing but > act as a > taxation authority for GTLD's. > > To even suggest that ICANN is the 'governing body of the Internet" > is nearly > laughable on its face since it operates only on voluntary compliance > with a > series RFC, nothing more. > > Google and now BING have ended the argument once and for all on the > utility > of more GTLD's but what the heck if you want 10,000 or so it won't > make any > difference that is a proven engineering fact.. open up the 3 letter > ISO 3166 > codes to Nation States if folks really think there is a problem. > > Of course that ICANN does not do very much is fine with the real > Internet > Engineering community since the last thing the Internet needs is a > regulator. > > However as a newly unemployed IP engineer there may be some utility to > sticking my head in the ICANN consultant troth from time to time. > >> From: Richard Perlman >> Date: July 2, 2009 10:09:13 AM EDT >> To: David Farber , ip >> Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! >> >> For IP if you wish... >> >> I think Marshal Rose's MFLD* comment (I believe re: the IETF) might >> apply >> here as well. >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 08:47:10 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I6CZU@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700M01I69ZN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM600601I9AW7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM600628I9AKW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A4785CB for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2CC29F44 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09D2A88E for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50876A88C for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n62NwXYa018806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:58:33 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] MFLD* To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 412ED12C-6764-11DE-960D-754BCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090702213546.1E73028E13B@aland.bbn.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Craig Partridge Date: July 2, 2009 5:35:46 PM EDT To: "Richard Shockey" To: Richard Perlman Cc: dave@farber.net Subject: MFLD* [no need to send to IP] > Well as a long time IETF participant WG chair etc I take considerable > offence to that note. Marshall wrote about "Many Fine Lunches and Dinners" to point out the distressing appearance at IETF c. 1988 of professional standards representatives (folks paid by their company to simply attend standards meetings). Craig ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:37:49 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700P01J2E6Q@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM700MM3J2EE7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C09865A for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 764BA9E0B for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6954A7F4 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AFB3A7F2 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63DDaYH019009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:13:35 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] ICANN, WeKant, etc, etc To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <02D3ADF3-4880-41A2-B18C-70550D1A358D@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: 5300DD18-67D3-11DE-8D1D-F83CCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4A4CBBA4.10903@ccr.org> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Michael O'Dell" Date: July 2, 2009 9:52:36 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: ICANN, WeKant, etc, etc The point everyone is missing about DNS is that there is *NO* need any longer for *ANY* "gTLDs". the technology out there today is capable of supporting a completely flat namespace. it could all be simple strings, with no string being more equal than any other. as we have seen demonstrated so compellingly, the effect of structure in DNS has been to create artificial value which then gets sliced-up and "monetized". After the initial creation of a synthetic command economy, everyone wishing to play cites "free market" dogma to assert their divine right to a monopoly just like everyone else has. Not even George Orwell foresaw such brilliant use of Doublespeak. -mo ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:37:50 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700001J4V8V@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM700MN8J4VE7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F81DABBD for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C433AC90 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AAC0A81A for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A59EA819 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63DEfkj003134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:14:40 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 7D3DE08A-67D3-11DE-A565-CC4BCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 And how do we find out where ISOC is spending the rest of the money djf Begin forwarded message: From: Adam Peake Date: July 3, 2009 7:04:52 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net, bob.hinden@gmail.com Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M All good a true. Where does ISOC gets the money to support the IETF? (and for the RFC editor.) Pretty much it all comes from ICANN, it's revenue from .ORG. ISOC won a competitive bid for the divestiture of ORG from Verisign. Adam ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:37:51 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700001J7HEP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM700006J7HE9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34C9A84A for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB4BABD7 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC91BA842 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8474AA841 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63DGEab003421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:16:11 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <8A068857-DA33-476B-9B1C-68BE81B5C010@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: B5FD3010-67D3-11DE-AB5B-C05DCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4A4D61A4.3050100@cavebear.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Karl Auerbach Date: July 2, 2009 9:40:52 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M On 07/02/2009 04:52 PM, David Farber wrote: > From: Bob Hinden > It would appear that ICANN spends more than 2x on travel per year than > the total cost to run the IETF. When I was on ICANN board and when I finally got to examine the general ledger (after nearly 18 months of legal wrangling to do so) I found that ICANN had lax travel policies. One staff member, for example, seemly being confused between "Club Med" and "ICANN", used ICANN's money to travel roughly 5 times around the world in one year, stopping at high season at lush places like Davos. One minor event in Kenya was attended by something like a half dozen ICANN staffers and board members. ICANN paid for lavish travel expenses for the law firm that had created ICANN (and who remains among ICANN's largest yearly creditors.) That was then. I have heard that things have have improved. However, ICANN still remains a traveling circus. Its meeting in Mexico City had over 1100 people and an uncountable number of special events (many paid for by companies who have, or who aspire to have, relations with ICANN.) As for ICANN's staff - there are a lot of 'em. Many are pretty good. Some are amazingly good. Many work their tails off. And many seem to regard the travel as a burden rather than a boon. On an individual basis, they are a fine group. As a collection, they are expensive to transport, house, and feed. The "fellowship" program that ICANN uses to pay for certain attendees is viewed by some as a well designed program, by others as a not-so- subtle inducement to build support for ICANN among certain groups of people. The point of this is that while ICANN has matured - at least these days it has written employee policies - it still suffers from rampant mission growth and overheated elaboration of its org chart. And what has all this expensive sound and fury produced? Not really very much. One would have a hard time coming up with concrete evidence of how the process of turning DNS query packets into DNS reply packets has become more reliable, more efficient, more secure, or more accurate than it was before there was an ICANN. --karl-- ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:37:52 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700001J7QFY@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM70000UJ7QE9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A038BB4 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EBF2958E for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 447DEA854 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B30A0A853 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63DHQKp003644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:26 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] really really geeky issue --$12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M and BTW To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: DCF7D382-67D3-11DE-A346-9868CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <004f01c9fb7b$22a70490$67f50db0$@us> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Richard Shockey" Date: July 2, 2009 9:11:02 PM EDT To: , "'ip'" Subject: RE: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M and BTW Now to end this particular thread ..if ICANN would be so kind as to help fund the IETF, from which all IP blessings ultimately flow, maybe we wouldn't have this discussion. Oh and BTW if ICANN could please return to the IETF/IAB control of the IANA protocol parameter registry while they are at it many of us would be most grateful. This is actually a huge issue in the current discussions with the DOC, ICANN and the IAB now that the contract between the DoC and ICANN is due to expire in Sept. The protocol parameter registry http://www.iana.org/protocols/ was a legacy from the Jon Postel era that was never meant to be controlled by ICANN. Protocols and their definition are a singular function of the IETF. Though ICANN controls that registry, what goes into it currently under IETF control. There is a huge fear in the IETF engineering community that as ICANN morphs into, god knows what, the control of that registry could fall into nefarious hands, namely that other "standards bodies" could write into that registry thus invalidating its unique function under IETF oversight. It sounds like a really really geeky issue but its importance to the proper functioning of the Internet cannot be emphasized enough. > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Bob Hinden > Date: July 2, 2009 6:12:16 PM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Cc: Bob Hinden , Richard Shockey > > > Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M > > Dave, > > For IP, if you wish. > > What Richard said is correct. Speaking as the IETF Administrative > Oversight Committee (IAOC) chair, the IETF annual budget runs about > $5M year, with attendance fees and sponsorships paying for about 2/3 > of that and the ISOC paying for the remainder. Lots of detail at: > > http://iaoc.ietf.org/budget.html > > It would appear that ICANN spends more than 2x on travel per year than > the total cost to run the IETF. > > Bob > > > On Jul 2, 2009, at 2:16 PM, David Farber wrote: > >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: "Richard Shockey" >> Date: July 2, 2009 3:20:34 PM EDT >> To: >> Subject: RE: [IP] Re: $12 million !!!! >> >> >> Well as a long time IETF participant WG chair etc I take > considerable >> offence to that note. >> >> All of us pay our own expenses to IETF meetings and the secretariat > is >> principally funded by the attendance fees with considerable help >> from ISOC. >> >> The current ICANN budget for 09 is nearly 61 Million total which is >> nearly >> unbelievable to some of us since ICANN essentially does nothing but >> act as a >> taxation authority for GTLD's. >> >> To even suggest that ICANN is the 'governing body of the Internet" >> is nearly >> laughable on its face since it operates only on voluntary compliance >> with a >> series RFC, nothing more. >> >> Google and now BING have ended the argument once and for all on the >> utility >> of more GTLD's but what the heck if you want 10,000 or so it won't >> make any >> difference that is a proven engineering fact.. open up the 3 letter >> ISO 3166 >> codes to Nation States if folks really think there is a problem. >> >> Of course that ICANN does not do very much is fine with the real >> Internet >> Engineering community since the last thing the Internet needs is a >> regulator. >> >> However as a newly unemployed IP engineer there may be some utility > to >> sticking my head in the ICANN consultant troth from time to time. >> >>> From: Richard Perlman >>> Date: July 2, 2009 10:09:13 AM EDT >>> To: David Farber , ip >>> Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! >>> >>> For IP if you wish... >>> >>> I think Marshal Rose's MFLD* comment (I believe re: the IETF) might >>> apply >>> here as well. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:37:53 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700001JAYND@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM700MJAJAYE6@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2748757 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1621CA568 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1A9A86C for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C88BFA86B for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63DHQKq003644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:17:55 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. [with comments] To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_KTXu2h8202dBKT81p9dBow)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: EEC1B4F2-67D3-11DE-A0D8-3470CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <053e01c9fb7a$84b95490$8e2bfdb0$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_KTXu2h8202dBKT81p9dBow) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: July 2, 2009 9:06:37 PM EDT To: "'James Seng'" , "'David Farber'" Cc: "'Lauren Weinstein'" Subject: RE: [IP] Re: Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New = =20 C.E.O. [with comments] I sent a separate reply to the list giving a detailed explanation of = =20 why the DNS is a problem. We can=92t shut off the DNS but we can = =20 recognize that search engines and other mechanisms are indeed better = =96 =20 that=92s what I mean by deprecating. The very short version of the alternative is to let people choose = =20 their own identifiers that don=92t have semantics =96 GUIDs. One woul= d =20 need to deal with spoofing issues by having certifying authorities bu= t =20 at a first approximation it=92s like choosing the names for your = =20 children except from an arbitrarily large space of names without = =20 semantics thus making collisions unlikely. You can then get them = =20 signed for use by strangers. This identifier is unrelated to the path= =20 and as with the post office and other systems the mapping between the= =20 two is a social or application problem. There are lots of details to make this work well =96 but instead we p= ut =20 the effort into making the DNS do what it can=92t do =96 provide stab= le =20 identifiers. We should also put more effort into building infrastructure rather = =20 than broadband. Singapore could serve as an example to the world = =96 =20 after all if there=92s 100% wired/wireless availability why put all t= he =20 effort into creating billable events that net out to zero. It=92s = =20 another example of the danger of redoubling the effort to make the = =20 wrong model work when there is a simple viable alternative. =46rom: james.seng@gmail.com [mailto:james.seng@gmail.com] On Behalf = Of =20 James Seng Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 20:52 To: Bob Frankston; David Farber Cc: Lauren Weinstein Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New = =20 C.E.O. [with comments] I do not disagree with you on the problems of DNS, of its very nature= =20 that hook right within our network and create mini-monopoly economy. = =20 It is still a challenge how to really create For example, we know that Search Engine gives a better user =20 experience. Some browsers already drop the traditional address bar in= =20 replacement with a single "Search & Address Bar". But until something else come along, DNS is what we have and we have = =20 to live with it. The problem is fundamentally DNS. ICANN was not formed to "fix" DNS. = =20 It is formed to deal with the problem arises (e.g. competitions) with= =20 whatever fault that DNS has. A side note to Rich Kulawiec who commented that phisher & spammer = =20 rushed into a new TLD. It is a often repeated statement that may be = =20 true at some stage in time but not so currently. http://www.antiphishing.org/reports/APWG_GlobalPhishingSurvey2H2008.p= df "Up to 81% of the domains used for phishing were =93compromised=94 or= =20 hacked domains. Phishing most often takes place on compromised Web servers, where the= =20 phishers place their phishing pages unbeknownst to the site operators. This method = =20 gains the phishers free hosting, and complicates take-down efforts because suspending a domai= n =20 name or hosting account also disables the resolution of the legitimate user= =92s =20 site. Phishing on a compromised Web site typically takes place on a subdomain or in a = =20 subdirectory, where the phish is not easily noticed by the site=92s operator or visitors.= " Phishing has moved on from trying to register their own domain names = =20 for their activities. It is easier to hijack an existing one and use = =20 it for a while before moving on. -James Seng On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Bob Frankston wrote: Whatever the original mission of ICANN was we=92ve learned a lot sinc= e =20 then we need to do more than spawn lots of little NSIs =96 that=92s n= ot =20 competition, it=92s just a feeding frenzy. ICANN isn=92t addressing t= he =20 fundamental dysfunction and failures of the DNS: =B7 The DNS cannot be a directory but adding support for more= =20 languages only reinforces that misconception. =B7 We still don=92t stable identifiers =96 the new gTLDs jus= t =20 continue the tradition of creating billable events. A fundamental principle of the Internet is that those outside the = =20 network create their own solutions. Yet the DNS has turned out to hav= e =20 been a failure =96 it keeps control firmly inside the network and it= =92s =20 very existence frustrates efforts to move on. ICANN should be doing = =20 all it can to deprecate the DNS. As an interim the DNS should =20 immediately and without any further ado provide for stable handles = =20 that don=92t have semantic baggage and thus have no need to be reused= . =20 It should then encourage others like WIPO and private companies like = =20 Google, Skype, Microsoft etc to provide their own directory and =20 registry services Ultimately we mustn=92t have to a fatal dependency on a single centra= l =20 point of failure and control like the DNS. In the meantime we should = =20 be doing what we can to reduce that dependency. It should also tackle= =20 the failed idea of the IP address that has made routing unnecessarily= =20 complicated and assured identifiers are not stable thus leading to th= e =20 kludge called the DNS. To put it another way =96 ICANN is a finger in the dike. We shouldn= =92t =20 treat it as a solution but rather a reminder that dike is in desperat= e =20 need of repair. Can an outsider provide the kind of stronger =20 leadership necessary to move ICANN beyond its original mission so it = =20 can do what has to be done to assure the continued vibrancy of the = =20 dynamic we call =93The Internet=94? -----Original Message----- =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 09:14 To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O= . =20 [with comments] Begin forwarded message: =46rom: James Seng Date: June 29, 2009 9:42:42 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O= . [with comments] I have a lot of respect for Lauren for her [his djf] work on numerou= s issues on Internet. So I am surprised and concerned about the tone Lauren has taken on ICANN. While there are certain room for improvement for ICANN in various areas, the opening of new gTLD is an area that was a slated goal from ICANN from its early days of formation of introducing competition to back-then Network Solution and now Verisign. Competition and choice for consumer is good. One may argue what the balance should be, it is another take a position that ICANN is 'one notch short of scam' in trying to introducing competition to the marketplace. -James Seng On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:12 AM, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Lauren Weinstein > Date: June 27, 2009 11:09:15 AM EDT > To: nnsquad@nnsquad.org > Subject: [ NNSquad ] Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New > C.E.O. > [with comments] > > > This decision had been rumored for weeks. Three comments: > > 1) The more TLDs that are introduced, the more confusion there is > among both domain name holders and the Internet user community i= n > general (that is, the population of the world). As such, the ma= in > TLDs already in common use (com, net, org, edu + country TLDs) > gain in value and demand since they will increasingly stand out > amongst the clutter of MOBIes, SEXies, WIMPies, WACKies, and who > knows what else, most of which will quite rightly be treated by > consumers as confusing nonsense. The driving force behind the > introduction of new TLDs at this stage is creating new profit > centers through consumer confusion, and ICANN has become the > primary enabler of a domain name regime that we can charitably > categorize as just one notch short of a scam. > > 2) ICANN is increasingly a white elephant whose original > justifications have been warped in ways that Kafka might have > appreciated, but that no longer tend to serve the interests of t= he > Internet community at large. It is difficult to see how it > can have any long term future, especially given the internationa= l > forces in play. > > 3) To Rod Beckstrom: You thought things were screwed up at NCC? > You ain't seen nuthin' yet. Lotsa luck ... you're gonna need it= . > > --Lauren-- > NNSquad Moderator > > - - - > > ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- > > Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 03:30:32 -0400 > From: David Farber > Subject: [IP] Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O.= - > NYTimes.com > Reply-To: dave@farber.net > To: ip > > > http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/06/26/technology/AP-US-TEC-In= ternet-Names.html?ref=3Dtechnology > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_KTXu2h8202dBKT81p9dBow) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>

Date: July 2, 20= 09 9:06:37 PM EDT

To: "'James Seng'" <james@seng.sg>, "'David Farber'" <dave@farber.net>

Cc: <= font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">"= 'Lauren Weinstein'" <lauren@v= ortex.com>

Subject: RE: [IP] Re: Icann Hires F= ormer Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. [with comments]

I sent a separate rep= ly to the list giving a detailed explanation of why the DNS is a prob= lem. We can=92t shut off the DNS but we can recognize that search eng= ines and other mechanisms are indeed better =96 that=92s what I mean = by deprecating.

The very short version of the alternative is to let people choo= se their own identifiers that don=92t have semantics =96 GUIDs. One w= ould need to deal with spoofing issues by having certifying authoriti= es but at a first approximation it=92s like choosing the names for yo= ur children except from an arbitrarily large space of names without s= emantics thus making collisions unlikely. You can then get them signe= d for use by strangers. This identifier is unrelated to the path and = as with the post office and other systems the mapping between the two= is a social or application problem.

&= nbsp;

There are lots of details to make this wor= k well =96 but instead we put the effort into making the DNS do what = it can=92t do =96 provide stable identifiers.

We should also put more effort in= to building infrastructure rather than broadband. Singapore could ser= ve as an example to the world =96 after all if there=92s 100% wired/w= ireless availability why put all the effort into creating billable ev= ents that net out to zero. It=92s another example of the danger of re= doubling the effort to make the wrong model work when there is a simp= le viable alternative.

From:<= /b> james.seng@gmail.com [ On Behalf Of James Seng
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 20:52
To:= Bob Frankston; Dav= id Farber
Cc: Lauren Weinstein
Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity C= hief as New C.E.O. [with comments]

I do not di= sagree with you on the problems of DNS, of its very nature that hook = right within our network and create mini-monopoly economy. It is stil= l a challenge how to really create

For example, we know that Search Engine gives= a better user experience. Some browsers already drop the traditional= address bar in replacement with a single "Search & Address Bar".=

But until = something else come along, DNS is what we have and we have to live wi= th it.

The = problem is fundamentally DNS. ICANN was not formed to "fix" DNS. It i= s formed to deal with the problem arises (e.g. competitions) with wha= tever fault that DNS has.

A side note to Rich Kulawiec who com= mented that phisher & spammer rushed into a new TLD. It is a ofte= n repeated statement that may be true at some stage in time but not s= o currently.
= http://www.antiphishing.org/reports/APWG_GlobalPhishingSurvey2H2008.p= df

"Up to 81% of the domains used for phishing were =93com= promised=94 or hacked domains.
Phishing most often takes place on compromised = Web servers, where the phishers place
their phishing pages unbeknownst to the site o= perators. This method gains the phishers free
hosting, and complicates take-down eff= orts because suspending a domain name or
hosting account also disables the resolutio= n of the legitimate user=92s site. Phishing on a
compromised Web site typi= cally takes place on a subdomain or in a subdirectory, where
the phish is not easily= noticed by the site=92s operator or visitors."

Phishing has m= oved on from trying to register their own domain names for their acti= vities. It is easier to hijack an existing one and use it for a while= before moving on. =

-James Seng

On Tue, Jun 30, 2= 009 at 10:59 PM, Bob Frankston <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com> wrote:

Whatever the original mission of ICANN was we= =92ve learned a lot since then we need to do more than spawn lots of = little NSIs =96 that=92s not competition, it=92s just a feeding frenz= y. ICANN isn=92t addressing the fundamental dysfunction and failures = of the DNS:

=B7 &nbs= p; The DNS cannot= be a directory but adding support for more languages only reinforces= that misconception.

=B7 &= nbsp; We st= ill don=92t stable identifiers =96 the new gTLDs just continue the tr= adition of creating billable events.

= ;

A fundamental principle of the Internet is = that those outside the network create their own solutions. Yet the DN= S has turned out to have been a failure =96 it keeps control firmly i= nside the network and it=92s very existence frustrates efforts to mov= e on. ICANN should be doing all it can to deprecate the DNS. As an in= terim the DNS should immediately and without any further ado provide = for stable handles that don=92t have semantic baggage and thus have n= o need to be reused. It should then encourage others like WIPO and pr= ivate companies like Google, Skype, Microsoft etc to provide their ow= n directory and registry services

Ultimately we mustn=92t have to a fatal depend= ency on a single central point of failure and control like the DNS. I= n the meantime we should be doing what we can to reduce that dependen= cy. It should also tackle the failed idea of the IP address that has = made routing unnecessarily complicated and assured identifiers are no= t stable thus leading to the kludge called the DNS.=

To put it another way =96 ICANN is a finger in the dike. W= e shouldn=92t treat it as a solution but rather a reminder that dike = is in desperate need of repair. Can an outsider provide the kind of s= tronger leadership necessary to move ICANN beyond its original missio= n so it can do what has to be done to assure the continued vibrancy o= f the dynamic we call =93The Internet=94?

<= div>

-----Original Message-----
From: D= avid Farber [mailto:dave@farber.n= et]
Sent: T= uesday, June 30, 2009 09:14
To: ip
Subject: [IP] Re: Icann Hire= s Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. [with comments]=

From: James Seng <jame= s@seng.sg>
Date: June 29, 2009 9:42:42 PM EDT
To: dave@farber.net
Cc: ip <ip@v2.listbox.com>
Subject: Re: [IP] Icann Hires Former = Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O.
[with comments]

I have a lot of respect for Lauren for her [his d= jf] work on numerous
issues on
Internet. So I am surprised and concerned about the tone Lau= ren has
taken on = ICANN.

While there are cert= ain room for improvement for ICANN in various
areas, the opening of new gTLD is an ar= ea that was a slated goal from
ICANN from its early days of formation of introducing c= ompetition to
bac= k-then Network Solution and now Verisign.

Competition and choice for consumer is good. One may a= rgue what the
bal= ance should be, it is another take a position that ICANN is 'one=
notch short of scam' = in trying to introducing competition to the
marketplace.

-James Seng

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:12 AM, David Farber<dave@farber.net> wrote:
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
<= p style=3D"margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font= -family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">>
> From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@vortex.com><= /p>
> Date: June 27, 2009 11:= 09:15 AM EDT
>= To: nnsquad@nnsquad.org
> Subject: [ NNSquad ] Icann Hire= s Former Cybersecurity Chief as New
> C.E.O.
> [with comments]
>
>
>&= nbsp;
> 1) The= more TLDs that are introduced, the more confusion there is
>   among bot= h domain name holders and the Internet user community in
>   general (tha= t is, the population of the world). As such, the main
>   TLDs alre= ady in common use (com, net, org, edu + country TLDs)
<= p style=3D"margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font= -family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">>   gain in value a= nd demand since they will increasingly stand out
>   amongst the clutter = of MOBIes, SEXies, WIMPies, WACKies, and who
>   knows what else, most = of which will quite rightly be treated by
>   consumers as confusing nons= ense. The driving force behind the
>   introduction of new TLDs at = this stage is creating new profit
>   centers through consumer confusion,= and ICANN has become the
>   primary enabler of a domain name regime tha= t we can charitably
>
> 2) ICANN is increasin= gly a white elephant whose original
>   justifications have been warped i= n ways that Kafka might have
>   Internet community at large. It is d= ifficult to see how it
>   can have any long term future, especially give= n the international
>
> 3) To Rod Beckstrom: You thought things were screwe= d up at NCC?
>=    You ain't seen nuthin' yet. Lotsa luck ... you're = gonna need it.
&g= t;
> --L= auren--
> NNSq= uad Moderator
>= ;
> - - = -
> =
> ----- Forwarded = message from David Farber <dav= e@farber.net> -----
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 03:30:32 -0400
> From: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
> Subject: [IP] Icann Hires Fo= rmer Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. -
>       = ; NYTimes.com
>= ; Reply-To: dave@farber.net
> To: ip <ip@v2.listbox.com>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.c= om/aponline/2009/06/26/technology/AP-US-TEC-Internet-Names.html?ref= =3Dtechnology
>
>&= nbsp;
> <= o:p>
>
> ------------------= -------------------------
> Archives: h= style=3D"margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-= family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">> RSS Feed:
> Power= ed by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com=
>
> ----- End forwarded message = -----
> <= o:p>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------= -------------
>= ; Archives: https://www.l= istbox.com/member/archive/247/=3Dnow
> RSS Feed:
> Powered by Listbo= x: http://www.listbox.com
>

=
----------------= ---------------------------
Archives: http= yle=3D"margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-fam= ily: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">RSS Feed:
http://www.listbox.com

Archives

--Boundary_(ID_KTXu2h8202dBKT81p9dBow)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:37:55 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700001JC8OS@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM700MP6JC8E7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D6F8EC3 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE013AD77 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28396A8BE for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184D3A8BB for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63DHQKr003644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:18:46 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. [with comments] To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <4D8DAB5C-C3AD-48EF-837C-9039A7261631@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_2qvWc+ReLf4/1tLaEd9tPQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 0BDCE50C-67D4-11DE-B101-719CCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <558a39a60907021751y51847a16h95364c4d54abaa9e@mail.gmail.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_2qvWc+ReLf4/1tLaEd9tPQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: James Seng Date: July 2, 2009 8:51:53 PM EDT To: Bob Frankston , David Farber Cc: Lauren Weinstein Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New = =20 C.E.O. [with comments] I do not disagree with you on the problems of DNS, of its very nature= =20 that hook right within our network and create mini-monopoly economy. = =20 It is still a challenge how to really create For example, we know that Search Engine gives a better user =20 experience. Some browsers already drop the traditional address bar in= =20 replacement with a single "Search & Address Bar". But until something else come along, DNS is what we have and we have = =20 to live with it. The problem is fundamentally DNS. ICANN was not formed to "fix" DNS. = =20 It is formed to deal with the problem arises (e.g. competitions) with= =20 whatever fault that DNS has. A side note to Rich Kulawiec who commented that phisher & spammer = =20 rushed into a new TLD. It is a often repeated statement that may be = =20 true at some stage in time but not so currently. http://www.antiphishing.org/reports/APWG_GlobalPhishingSurvey2H2008.p= df "Up to 81% of the domains used for phishing were =93compromised=94 or= =20 hacked domains. Phishing most often takes place on compromised Web servers, where the= =20 phishers place their phishing pages unbeknownst to the site operators. This method = =20 gains the phishers free hosting, and complicates take-down efforts because suspending a domai= n =20 name or hosting account also disables the resolution of the legitimate user= =92s =20 site. Phishing on a compromised Web site typically takes place on a subdomain or in a = =20 subdirectory, where the phish is not easily noticed by the site=92s operator or visitors.= " Phishing has moved on from trying to register their own domain names = =20 for their activities. It is easier to hijack an existing one and use = =20 it for a while before moving on. -James Seng On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Bob Frankston wrote: Whatever the original mission of ICANN was we=92ve learned a lot sinc= e =20 then we need to do more than spawn lots of little NSIs =96 that=92s n= ot =20 competition, it=92s just a feeding frenzy. ICANN isn=92t addressing t= he =20 fundamental dysfunction and failures of the DNS: =B7 The DNS cannot be a directory but adding support for more= =20 languages only reinforces that misconception. =B7 We still don=92t stable identifiers =96 the new gTLDs jus= t =20 continue the tradition of creating billable events. A fundamental principle of the Internet is that those outside the = =20 network create their own solutions. Yet the DNS has turned out to hav= e =20 been a failure =96 it keeps control firmly inside the network and it= =92s =20 very existence frustrates efforts to move on. ICANN should be doing = =20 all it can to deprecate the DNS. As an interim the DNS should =20 immediately and without any further ado provide for stable handles = =20 that don=92t have semantic baggage and thus have no need to be reused= . =20 It should then encourage others like WIPO and private companies like = =20 Google, Skype, Microsoft etc to provide their own directory and =20 registry services Ultimately we mustn=92t have to a fatal dependency on a single centra= l =20 point of failure and control like the DNS. In the meantime we should = =20 be doing what we can to reduce that dependency. It should also tackle= =20 the failed idea of the IP address that has made routing unnecessarily= =20 complicated and assured identifiers are not stable thus leading to th= e =20 kludge called the DNS. To put it another way =96 ICANN is a finger in the dike. We shouldn= =92t =20 treat it as a solution but rather a reminder that dike is in desperat= e =20 need of repair. Can an outsider provide the kind of stronger =20 leadership necessary to move ICANN beyond its original mission so it = =20 can do what has to be done to assure the continued vibrancy of the = =20 dynamic we call =93The Internet=94? -----Original Message----- =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 09:14 To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O= . =20 [with comments] Begin forwarded message: =46rom: James Seng Date: June 29, 2009 9:42:42 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O= . [with comments] I have a lot of respect for Lauren for her [his djf] work on numerou= s issues on Internet. So I am surprised and concerned about the tone Lauren has taken on ICANN. While there are certain room for improvement for ICANN in various areas, the opening of new gTLD is an area that was a slated goal from ICANN from its early days of formation of introducing competition to back-then Network Solution and now Verisign. Competition and choice for consumer is good. One may argue what the balance should be, it is another take a position that ICANN is 'one notch short of scam' in trying to introducing competition to the marketplace. -James Seng On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:12 AM, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Lauren Weinstein > Date: June 27, 2009 11:09:15 AM EDT > To: nnsquad@nnsquad.org > Subject: [ NNSquad ] Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New > C.E.O. > [with comments] > > > This decision had been rumored for weeks. Three comments: > > 1) The more TLDs that are introduced, the more confusion there is > among both domain name holders and the Internet user community i= n > general (that is, the population of the world). As such, the ma= in > TLDs already in common use (com, net, org, edu + country TLDs) > gain in value and demand since they will increasingly stand out > amongst the clutter of MOBIes, SEXies, WIMPies, WACKies, and who > knows what else, most of which will quite rightly be treated by > consumers as confusing nonsense. The driving force behind the > introduction of new TLDs at this stage is creating new profit > centers through consumer confusion, and ICANN has become the > primary enabler of a domain name regime that we can charitably > categorize as just one notch short of a scam. > > 2) ICANN is increasingly a white elephant whose original > justifications have been warped in ways that Kafka might have > appreciated, but that no longer tend to serve the interests of t= he > Internet community at large. It is difficult to see how it > can have any long term future, especially given the internationa= l > forces in play. > > 3) To Rod Beckstrom: You thought things were screwed up at NCC? > You ain't seen nuthin' yet. Lotsa luck ... you're gonna need it= . > > --Lauren-- > NNSquad Moderator > > - - - > > ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- > > Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 03:30:32 -0400 > From: David Farber > Subject: [IP] Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O.= - > NYTimes.com > Reply-To: dave@farber.net > To: ip > > > http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/06/26/technology/AP-US-TEC-In= ternet-Names.html?ref=3Dtechnology > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_2qvWc+ReLf4/1tLaEd9tPQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: James Seng <james@seng.sg&= gt;
Date: July 2, 2009 8:51:53 PM EDT
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">To: Bob Frankston <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>, David Farber <dave@farber.net>
Cc: Lauren= Weinstein <lauren@vortex.com= >
Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Icann Hires Former Cybe= rsecurity Chief as New C.E.O.&n= bsp; [with comments]

I do not disagree with you on the prob= lems of DNS, of its very nature that hook right within our network an= d create mini-monopoly economy. It is still a challenge how to really= create

For example, we know that Search Engine gives a bette= r user experience. Some browsers already drop the traditional address= bar in replacement with a single "Search & Address Bar".
But until something else come along, DNS is what we have and we hav= e to live with it.

The problem is fundamentally DNS. ICANN wa= s not formed to "fix" DNS. It is formed to deal with the problem aris= es (e.g. competitions) with whatever fault that DNS has.

A si= de note to Rich Kulawiec who commented that phisher & spammer ru= shed into a new TLD. It is a often repeated statement that may be tru= e at some stage in time but not so currently.

= http://www.antiphishing.org/reports/APWG_GlobalPhishingSurvey2H2008.p= df

"Up to 81% of the domains used for phishing were =93co= mpromised=94 or hacked domains.
Phishing most often takes p= lace on compromised Web servers, where the phishers place
their p= hishing pages unbeknownst to the site operators. This method gains th= e phishers free
hosting, and complicates take-down efforts becau= se suspending a domain name or
hosting account also disables the = resolution of the legitimate user=92s site. Phishing on a
c= ompromised Web site typically takes place on a subdomain or in a subd= irectory, where
the phish is not easily noticed by the site=92s = operator or visitors."

Phishing has moved on from trying to re= gister their own domain names for their activities. It is easier to h= ijack an existing one and use it for a while before moving on.
<= br>-James Seng

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009= at 10:59 PM, Bob Frankston <Bob19-0501@bobf.frank= ston.com> wrote:

Whatever the o= riginal mission of ICANN was we=92ve learned a lot since then we need= to do more than spawn lots of little NSIs =96 that=92s not competiti= on, it=92s just a feeding frenzy. ICANN isn=92t addressing the fundam= ental dysfunction and failures of the DNS:
=B7         The DNS cannot be a direc= tory but adding support for more languages only reinforces that misco= nception.
=B7   &n= bsp;     We still don=92t stable identifiers =96 the new gTLDs j= ust continue the tradition of creating billable events.

A fundame= ntal principle of the Internet is that those outside the network crea= te their own solutions. Yet the DNS has turned out to have been a fai= lure =96 it keeps control firmly inside the network and it=92s very e= xistence frustrates efforts to move on. ICANN should be doing all it = can to deprecate the DNS. As an interim the DNS should immediately an= d without any further ado provide for stable handles that don=92t hav= e semantic baggage and thus have no need to be reused. It should then= encourage others like WIPO and private companies like Google, Skype,= Microsoft etc to provide their own directory and registry services <= /span>

Ultimately we mustn=92t have to a fatal dependency on a single ce= ntral point of failure and control like the DNS. In the meantime we s= hould be doing what we can to reduce that dependency. It should also = tackle the failed idea of the IP address that has made routing unnece= ssarily complicated and assured identifiers are not stable thus leadi= ng to the kludge called the DNS.

To put it another way =96 ICANN is a finger in the dik= e. We shouldn=92t treat it as a solution but rather a reminder that d= ike is in desperate need of repair. Can an outsider provide the kind = of stronger leadership necessary to move ICANN beyond its original mi= ssion so it can do what has to be done to assure the continued vibran= cy of the dynamic we call =93The Internet=94?

--= ---Original Message-----
From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net]
Sen= t: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 09:14
To: ip
Subject: [IP] Re: Ican= n Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New C.E.O. [with comments]
<= div>

Begin forwarded message:
&nbs= p;
From: James Seng &l= t;james@seng.sg>
Date: June 29, 2009 9:42:42 PM EDT
To: dave@farber.net
Cc= : ip <ip@v2= .listbox.com>
Subject: Re: [IP] Icann Hires Former Cyber= security Chief as New C.E.O.
[with comments]

I have a lot= of respect for Lauren for her [his djf] work on numerous =
issues on
Internet. So I am surprised and concerned abo= ut the tone Lauren has
taken on ICANN.

While there are certain room f= or improvement for ICANN in various
areas, the opening of new g= TLD is an area that was a slated goal from
ICANN from its early= days of formation of introducing competition to
back-then Netw= ork Solution and now Verisign.

Competition and choice for consumer is good. = One may argue what the
balance should be, it is another take a = position that ICANN is 'one
notch short of scam' in trying to i= ntroducing competition to the
marketplace.

-James Seng
<= br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 a= t 9:12 AM, David Farber<dave@farber.net> wrote:
>
>= ;
> Begin forwarded message:
>
&g= t; From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@vortex.com>
> Date: June 27, 2= 009 11:09:15 AM EDT
> To: nnsquad@nnsquad.org
> Subject: [ = NNSquad ] Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity Chief as New
= > C.E.O.
> [with comments]
>
>&nb= sp;
> This decision had been rumored for weeks. Three = comments:
>
> 1) The more TLDs that are intro= duced, the more confusion there is
>   among both = domain name holders and the Internet user community in
>&nbs= p; general (that is, the population of the world). As suc= h, the main
>   TLDs already in common use (com, n= et, org, edu + country TLDs)
>   gain in value and= demand since they will increasingly stand out
>  = amongst the clutter of MOBIes, SEXies, WIMPies, WACKies, and who
=
>   knows what else, most of which will quite rightly= be treated by
>   consumers as confusing nonsense= . The driving force behind the
>   introduct= ion of new TLDs at this stage is creating new profit
> = centers through consumer confusion, and ICANN has become the
>   primary enabler of a domain name regime that we= can charitably
>   categorize as just one notch s= hort of a scam.
>
> 2) ICANN is increasingly = a white elephant whose original
>   justifications= have been warped in ways that Kafka might have
>  = ; appreciated, but that no longer tend to serve the interests of the<= /p>
>   Internet community at large. It is diffi= cult to see how it
>   can have any long term futu= re, especially given the international
>   forces = in play.
>
> 3) To Rod Beckstrom: You thought= things were screwed up at NCC?
>   You ain't seen= nuthin' yet. Lotsa luck ... you're gonna need it.
>&n= bsp;
> --Lauren--
> NNSquad Moderator
>&nb= sp;
> - - -
>
> ----- Forwarded mess= age from David Farber <dave@farber.net> -----
>
>= Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 03:30:32 -0400
> From: David Farber = <dave@farber.= net>
> Subject: [IP] Icann Hires Former Cybersecurity= Chief as New C.E.O. -
>      = NYTimes.com
> Reply-To: dave@farber.net
> To: ip <ip@v2.listbox.com= >
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com= /aponline/2009/06/26/technology/AP-US-TEC-Internet-Names.html?ref= =3Dtechnology
>
>
> <= /p>
>
> -----------------------------------------= --
> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/arc= hive/247/=3Dnow
> RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.co= m
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Archi=
> RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com
>&nb= sp;

&= nbsp;

------------------------------------------= 47/=3Dnow
RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com

=

Archives

--Boundary_(ID_2qvWc+ReLf4/1tLaEd9tPQ)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:37:57 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700101JJ98V@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM700MKFJJ9E6@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06FF48394 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04DC4A236 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20B0A975 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7475A973 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63DOBI7019131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:24:10 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Washington Post cancels lobbyist event amid uproar To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: D2654AA2-67D4-11DE-844D-2D5BCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <57984.173.70.189.2.1246592056.squirrel@mail.speakingtech.com:81> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "lynn" Date: July 2, 2009 11:34:16 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Washington Post cancels lobbyist event amid uproar http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/24441.html Washington Post cancels lobbyist event amid uproar Washington Post publisher Katharine Weymouth said today she was =20 canceling plans for an exclusive "salon" at her home where for as much as =20 $250,000, the Post offered lobbyists and association executives off-the-record access to "those powerful few" =97 Obama administration officials, me= mbers of Congress, and even the paper=92s own reporters and editors. The astonishing offer was detailed in a flier circulated Wednesday to= a health care lobbyist, who provided it to a reporter because the lobby= ist said he felt it was a conflict for the paper to charge for access to,= as the flier says, its =93health care reporting and editorial staff." With the Post newsroom in an uproar after POLITICO reported the solicitation, Weymouth said in an email to the staff that "a flier we= nt out that was prepared by the Marketing department and was never vette= d =20 by me or by the newsroom. Had it been, the flier would have been =20 immediately killed, because it completely misrepresented what we were trying to d= o." Weymouth said the paper had planned a series of dinners with =20 participation =66rom the newsroom =93but with parameters such that we did not in an= y way compromise our integrity. Sponsorship of events, like advertising in = the newspaper, must be at arm's length and cannot imply control over the content or access to our journalists. At this juncture, we will not b= e holding the planned July dinner and we will not hold salon dinners involving the newsroom. =93 She made it clear however, that The Post, which lost $19.5 million in= =20 the first quarter, sees bringing together Washington figures as a future revenue source. =93We do believe that there is a viable way to expand= our expertise into live conferences and events that simply enhances what = =20 we do - cover Washington for Washingtonians and those interested in =20 Washington,=94 she said. =93 And we will begin to do live events in ways that enhanc= e our reputation and in no way call into question our integrity.=94 ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:37:58 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700601TGPBJ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM7003GXTGPQ2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B53AF895E for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2FF99E30 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6260DACC8 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF58DACC4 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63GwCAi015736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:58:12 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: B3107564-67F2-11DE-9052-2258CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090703161554.GA29127@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 This battery problem has nothing to do with the new iPhone. The old iPhone had basically the same problem. If you leave the phone in 3G mode power consumption is quite heavy. If you leave the phone in non-3G mode but with WiFi and Bluetooth enabled, I find on either generation phone I can go most of the day and not go below 60% battery. I have always berated Apple for stealing the battery on general principles. But if anything I find the new iPhone 3GS to be better on the battery again as long as you keep it out of 3G mode unless you need it. Dave Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: July 3, 2009 12:15:54 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000591.html Greetings. Before you even think about rushing out to buy the new iPhone, you might want to read an interesting story about continuing negative reactions to the iPhone 3GS' battery life ( http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-iphone3-2009jul03,0,2546606.story ). Of course, all smartphones are power hungry, and we use these Internet-enabled phones for so much more than just talking. But the iPhone is a particularly egregious case since the battery is sealed inside and not considered to be a "user replaceable" item. My G1 phone also sucks a lot of juice, but I can pop in an extra charged battery anytime, and I have an extended duration battery (bigger is better!) to use in there as well. With the iPhone, since battery life sucks, you're really stuck. There are, however, some comparatively ugly workarounds. One person responding just now to a tweet of mine on this topic says that he uses a solar charger. I guess that's OK if you don't leave the iPhone itself out in direct sun, and don't keep smashing your head into the solar array (OK, so the solar array isn't really that big ...) A more practical way to deal with the problem may be something like this external battery pack ( http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2767656 -- only $20 on sale -- 50% discount -- at Radio Shack through July 11). You can always duct tape it to your iPhone. Won't that be pretty? More generally, the whole concept of sealed-in batteries in Apple devices strikes me as the epitome of "those suckers will buy anything with our name on it -- boot to the head!" consumer relations. But hey, whatever turns you on. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenweinstein ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:37:59 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700601TLQNB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM70058TTLP49@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58980A1A6 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A46A1F9 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC492AD8A for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68706AD87 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63H0rJL029973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:00:53 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] isoc financials To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: 13D961C6-67F3-11DE-9B7A-F674CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 I found this very informative. Why can't we get a similar breakdown report from ICANN !! Dave Begin forwarded message: From: Bob Hinden Date: July 3, 2009 11:40:21 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: Bob Hinden Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M Dave, For IP, if you wish. ISOC reports it financials at: http://www.isoc.org/isoc/fin/ From their 2009 budget, it shows total revenue of $16.7M of which about $15M comes from the PIR (.org registry). They spend about $15M on ISOC Department and Program Expenses (excluding the IETF expenses). Their expenses all broken out in their financial reports. Bob On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 6:14 AM, David Farber wrote: > And how do we find out where ISOC is spending the rest of the > money djf > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Adam Peake > Date: July 3, 2009 7:04:52 AM EDT > To: dave@farber.net, bob.hinden@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [IP] $12 million !!!! -- really total $61 M > > All good a true. > > Where does ISOC gets the money to support the IETF? (and for the RFC > editor.) Pretty much it all comes from ICANN, it's revenue from .ORG. > > ISOC won a competitive bid for the divestiture of ORG from Verisign. > > Adam > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Fri Jul 3 15:38:00 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116VFD@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM80050116QEU@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM700701TQ52O@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM7005C5TQ449@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 541A8A45A for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:04:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035C2ABB1 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8193EAE06 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC55AE05 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63H2MMC012475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:02:22 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] No more 73402,3893 - CompuServe shuts down To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_dgbYBQIcgiqN//AXvxanfQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: 4879A5B2-67F3-11DE-A17E-EE82CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_dgbYBQIcgiqN//AXvxanfQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Jonathan B Spira" Date: July 3, 2009 11:54:12 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: No more 73402,3893 - CompuServe shuts down Dave After only 30 years... "The original CompuServe service, first offered in 1979, was shut dow= n =20 by its current owner, AOL this past week. The service, which provide= d =20 its users addresses such as 73402,3893, was the first major online = =20 service although the number of users has dwindled in recent years. " http://www.basexblog.com/2009/07/03/compuserve-requiem/ Regards/Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen/Sz=EDv=E9lyes =FCdv=F6zlet/Cordia= lement/=20 Cordiali saluti/Saludos/V=E4nliga h=E4lsningar /s/ Jonathan Jonathan B. Spira CEO and Chief Analyst Basex, Inc. 8 http://www.basex.com ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_dgbYBQIcgiqN//AXvxanfQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Jonathan B Spira" <jspira@= basex.com>
Date: July 3, 2009 11:54:12 AM EDT<= /font>

To: David Farber <d= ave@farber.net>

Subject: No more 73402,3893 = - CompuServe shuts down

D= ave

After only 3= 0 years...

"The original CompuServe service, first offered in= 1979, was shut down by its current owner, AOL this past week. = The service, which provided its users addresses such as 73402,3893, w= as the first major online service although the number of users has dw= indled in recent years. "=
<SNIP> =

http://www.basexblog.com= /2009/07/03/compuserve-requiem/

Regar= ds/Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen/Sz=EDv=E9lyes =FCdv=F6zlet/Cordialemen= t/Cordiali saluti/Saludos/V=E4nliga h=E4lsningar

/s/ Jonath= an

Jonathan B. Spira CEO and Chief Analyst
Basex, Inc.
8 <= a href=3D"http://www.basex.com/">http= ://www.basex.com

Archives

--Boundary_(ID_dgbYBQIcgiqN//AXvxanfQ)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jul 4 14:41:08 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8EYY@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8AYP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM8006011G4BZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM80045H1G48O@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B218A71 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C8393F4 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D27AAA63 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B0AAA62 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63JoX7l025810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:50:33 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Israeli Experts Create Deep Zoom Tool for Videos To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <7E417ADA-F272-4855-9C10-11DCADBFDC7C@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: CC4A4448-680A-11DE-80AD-EB83CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <50022.71.107.61.231.1246634938.squirrel@www.bobrosenberg.phoenix.az.us> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: bobr@bobrosenberg.phoenix.az.us Date: July 3, 2009 11:28:58 AM EDT To: "Dave Farber" Subject: Israeli Experts Create Deep Zoom Tool for Videos Hi Dave Perhaps for I.P. [irony] Privacy advocates will be thrilled! [/irony] Cheers, Bob -- =20 Bob Rosenberg P.O. Box 33023 Phoenix, AZ 85067-3023 Mobile: 602-206-2856 LandLine: 602-274-3012 bob@bobrosenberg.phoenix.az.us Israeli Experts Create Deep Zoom Tool for Videos It could help catch more bad guys By Tudor Vieru, Science Editor 1st of July 2009, 10:40 GMT http://news.softpedia.com/news/Israeli-Experts-Create-Deep-Zoom-Tool-= for-Videos-115552.shtml Scientists at the Tel Aviv University have recently announced the = =20 development of a new =93perfection=94 tool for analyzing video footage, which would al= low =20 investigators watching them to zoom in and correct the image to the point where the= =20 person in it becomes recognizable. Needless to say, the application could soon be = =20 implemented in surveillance offices around the world and in counter-terrorism =20 divisions in all major countries. Primarily, its creators say, the goal of the system = =20 is to make low-quality, low-frame rate videos more useful to police departments = =20 and security guards. The tool can be used in both black-and-white and color video footage,= =20 as it works just as well in either environment, Tel Aviv University Professor Leo= nid Yaroslavsky, the leader of the research team behind the new method, = =20 says. The contract for it was given to the university by a defense-related = =20 company, which wanted to have a tool at its disposal that would allow it to observe = =20 details that the naked eye could not see. One of its demands was that the system = =20 operate in real-time as well, and not only in recordings. The Israeli researcher= s =20 also managed to successfully complete this part of the assignment. =93This enhancement of resolution can be a critical factor in locatin= g =20 terrorists or identifying criminal suspects,=94 Professor Yaroslavsky, whose team = =20 published details of the new tool in the latest issues of the scientific journals =20 Optical Letters and Journal of Real Time Image Processing, explains. =93Our video perfect= ion =20 tool works to improve visual quality and achieving a higher resolution of the video= =20 image,=94 he adds, saying that the implementation of the new device is just months= =20 away. As soon as a commercial partner is found, the method will be retrofitted on = =20 existing systems, and mounted as a default on future surveillance systems as = =20 well. =93It's quite a new approach to video perfection. A lot of work has b= een =20 done in this field, so it's very gratifying to find a new and original =20 application,=94 Yaroslavsky says. He explains that the camera functions by surpassing the =20 =93turbulent atmosphere=94 problem, which refers to the fact that video cameras pick up a =93fuz= zy=94 =20 signal, if they observe something from a large distance, or with poor resolution= . =20 Rather than looking directly at the target, the new technique revolves around = =20 using algorithms to analyze the background of the scene, which usually remains still, = =20 and creating an image according to it. ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jul 4 14:41:09 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8EYY@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8AYP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM8007011PE16@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM8000SW1PEAP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4021AADE8 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB31A79C for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42435AB19 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B679AB18 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63Jtrax021860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:55:53 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] ICANN finanials To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <5F5C14D9-DA20-4B53-A45F-956D69CC5A1C@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: 89A73000-680B-11DE-AC09-004FCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4A4E49AD.20701@cox.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Steve Goldstein Date: July 3, 2009 2:10:53 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] isoc financials=>What about ICANN? Well, you might start at http://forms.icann.org//idashboard/public/. This is updated regularly. We also publish financials in the annual reports: http://www.icann.org/en/annualreport/ ============= Operating plans and budgets (historical) posted here: http://www.icann.org/en/general/financial.html Financial Information The ICANN budget is developed each year in parallel with the Operating Plan. Details of the Operational Planning process can be found here. A draft budget is posted for community comment in May. Based on feedback received, a further draft is prepared and posted. Community consultation is undertaken at the second ICANN meeting of the calendar year with sessions conducted in multiple languages. The budget is fine- tuned on the basis of comments received and the final version of the budget is presented to the Board for approval in June. The approved version of the budget is posted on the ICANN website. General Financial Information Payments to ICANN ICANN Disbursement Policy adopted February 2008 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2010 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2009 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2008 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2007 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2006 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2005 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2004 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2003 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2002 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2001 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 2000 Fiscal Year Ending 30 June 1999 --Steve (Member, ICANN Board) On 7/3/09 1:00 PM, David Farber wrote: > I found this very informative. Why can't we get a similar breakdown > report from ICANN !! > > Dave ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jul 4 14:41:10 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8EYY@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8AYP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM8007011RH5M@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM8000UQ1RNAP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7202F8B54 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE02A30F for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 394FAAB32 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03BEAB31 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63JvOOR021919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:57:24 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] isoc financials To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <67230D0B-53A6-4331-A281-5EC359F99592@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: BEAD80D8-680B-11DE-B8D1-975ECBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4A4E3A46.2080904@pelicancrossing.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 ditto djf Begin forwarded message: From: "Wendy M. Grossman" Date: July 3, 2009 1:05:10 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] isoc financials Reply-To: wendyg@pelicancrossing.net (for IP if you wish) FWIW ICANN has a public dashboard intended to show people how it spends and raises its money here: http://forms.icann.org//idashboard/public/ I find it cifficult to read, personally, because my head doesn't rotate like that. wg ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jul 4 14:41:11 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8EYY@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8AYP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM8007011RH5M@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM8004CH1RNDY@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E789E8B7B for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47EDA339 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA0FAB40 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78EF7AB3E for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63JvOOS021919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:58:05 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel ==> telecom contributing to climate change? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <13C90770-21BE-4E9D-84F0-F3D7093F9838@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_uhX1TndpdZ4WQNxYLlTThg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: D526B974-680B-11DE-8B97-BD68CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <063101c9fc04$97931f80$c6b95e80$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_uhX1TndpdZ4WQNxYLlTThg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: July 3, 2009 1:34:59 PM EDT To: , "'ip'" Cc: "'Lauren Weinstein'" Subject: RE: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel =3D=3D> tele= com =20 contributing to climate change? Perhaps we shouldn=92t be surprised that 3G uses so much power. Is it= =20 because you must contact a faraway base station rather than simply = =20 using the nearest access point =96 and cities they are typically very= =20 near? Is the protocol itself power hungry? Are 4G or WiMax any better= ? =20 How much of the energy usage is due to the complexity of cellular = =20 protocols=97supposedly 2G is lower usage than 3G? I=92d be interested= in =20 numbers from those who have done the analysis. If you multiple this by a hundreds of millions of phones and another = =20 billion devices such medical monitoring devices then we have a huge = =20 unnecessary energy footprint in order to give each entity its own = =20 billable path rather than allowing more efficient sharing of bit = =20 paths. Same with =93broadband=94. Simply using the nearest Wi-Fi access point makes a lot more sense. = =20 But we still need to do work =96 I don=92t think that 802.11 puts muc= h =20 emphasis on managing power levels (does it?). Just as important are the post-ICANN protocols to address the problem= s =20 with today=92s protocols which are dependent upon those (billable) pa= ths =20 and on the DNS for faux stability. -----Original Message----- =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:58 To: ip Subject: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel This battery problem has nothing to do with the new iPhone. The old iPhone had basically the same problem. If you leave the phone in 3G mode power consumption is quite heavy. If you leave the phone in non-3G mode but with WiFi and Bluetooth enabled, I find on either generation phone I can go most of the day and not go below 60% batter= y. I have always berated Apple for stealing the battery on general principles. But if anything I find the new iPhone 3GS to be better on the battery again as long as you keep it out of 3G mode unless you need it. Dave Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Lauren Weinstein Date: July 3, 2009 12:15:54 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000591.html Greetings. Before you even think about rushing out to buy the new iPhone, you might want to read an interesting story about continuing negative reactions to the iPhone 3GS' battery life ( http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-iphone3-2009jul03,0,2546606.s= tory ). Of course, all smartphones are power hungry, and we use these Internet-enabled phones for so much more than just talking. But the iPhone is a particularly egregious case since the battery is sealed inside and not considered to be a "user replaceable" item. My G1 phone also sucks a lot of juice, but I can pop in an extra charged battery anytime, and I have an extended duration battery (bigger is better!) to use in there as well. With the iPhone, since battery life sucks, you're really stuck. There are, however, some comparatively ugly workarounds. One person responding just now to a tweet of mine on this topic says that he use= s a solar charger. I guess that's OK if you don't leave the iPhone itself out in direct sun, and don't keep smashing your head into the solar array (OK, so the solar array isn't really that big ...) A more practical way to deal with the problem may be something like this external battery pack ( http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3D2767656 -- = only $20 on sale -- 50% discount -- at Radio Shack through July 11). You can always duct tape it to your iPhone. Won't that be pretty? More generally, the whole concept of sealed-in batteries in Apple devices strikes me as the epitome of "those suckers will buy anything with our name on it -- boot to the head!" consumer relations. But hey, whatever turns you on. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenweinstein ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_uhX1TndpdZ4WQNxYLlTThg) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>

Date: July 3, 20= 09 1:34:59 PM EDT

To: <dave@farber.net>, "'ip'" <ip@v2.listbox.com>

Cc: "'Lauren Weinstein'= " <lauren@vortex.com><= /font>

Subject: RE: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' He= el =3D=3D> telecom contributing to climate change?

<= span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; ">Perhaps we shouldn=92t be surprised = that 3G uses so much power. Is it because you must contact a faraway = base station rather than simply using the nearest access point =96 an= d cities they are typically very near? Is the protocol itself power h= ungry? Are 4G or WiMax any better? How much of the energy usage is du= e to the complexity of cellular protocols=97supposedly 2G is lower us= age than 3G? I=92d be interested in numbers from those who have done = the analysis.

If you multiple this by a hundreds of millions of phones= and another billion devices such medical monitoring devices then we = have a huge unnecessary energy footprint in order to give each entity= its own billable path rather than allowing more efficient sharing of= bit paths. Same with =93broadband=94.

Simply using the nearest Wi-Fi = access point makes a lot more sense. But we still need to do work = =96 I don=92t think that 802.11 puts much emphasis on managing power = levels (does it?).

Just as important are the post-ICANN protocols&= nbsp;to address the = ;problems with today=92s protocols whic= h are dependent upon those (billable) paths and on the DNS for faux s= tability.

-----Original Message-----
F= rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net]
Sent: Friday, July = 03, 2009 12:58
To: ip
Subject: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Ach= illes' Heel

This battery problem has nothin= g to do with the new iPhone. The old

iPhone had = basically the same problem. If you leave the phone in 3G

mode power consumption is quite heavy. If you leave the phon= e in

non-3G mode but with WiFi and Bluetooth ena= bled, I find on either

generation phone I can go= most of the day and not go below 60% battery.

&n= bsp;

I have always berated Apple for stealing the battery o= n general

principles. But if anything I find the= new iPhone 3GS to be better on

the battery agai= n as long as you keep it out of 3G mode unless you

Dave

Begin forwarded message:

&n= bsp;

From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@= vortex.com>

Date: July 3, 2009 12:15:54 PM EDT<= o:p>

To: = dave@farber.net

Subject: New iPh= one's Battery is Achilles' Heel

&= nbsp; &nbs= p; New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel

= ; http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000591.html<= o:p>

Greetings.= Before you even think about rushing out to buy the new

iPhone, you might want to read an interesting story about con= tinuing

negative reactions to the iPhone 3GS' battery = life

( http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-iphone3-2009jul03,0,2546606.st= ory

Of course, all smartphones are power hungry, and we use these

Internet-enabled phones for so much more than just talking.&= nbsp; But the

iPhone is a particularly egregious case = since the battery is sealed

inside and not considered = to be a "user replaceable" item.

My G1 phone also sucks a lot of juice, but I can pop in an extra

charged battery anytime, and I have an extended duration = battery

(bigger is better!) to use in there as well.

With the iPhone, since battery li= fe sucks, you're really stuck.

T= here are, however, some comparatively ugly workarounds. One per= son

responding just now to a tweet of mine on this top= ic says that he uses

a solar charger. I guess th= at's OK if you don't leave the iPhone

itself out in di= rect sun, and don't keep smashing your head into the

s= olar array (OK, so the solar array isn't really that big ...)

A more practical way to deal with the p= roblem may be something like

this external battery pac= k

( = http://www= .radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3D2767656 -- only

$20 on= sale -- 50% discount -- at Radio Shack through July 11). You

can always duct tape it to your iPhone. Won't tha= t be pretty?

More generally, the= whole concept of sealed-in batteries in Apple

devices= strikes me as the epitome of "those suckers will buy anything

with our name on it -- boot to the head!" consumer relations= .

But hey, whatever turns you on= .

--Lauren--

Laur= en Weinstein

lauren@vortex.com=

Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800

http://www.pfir.org/lauren

Co-Found= er, PFIR

- People For Internet Responsibi= lity - Co-Founder, NNSquad

- Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.o= rg

Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition

http://www.gctip.o= rg

Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com<= /a>

Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Poli= cy

Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com

Twitter: <= a href=3D"https://twitter.com/laurenweinstein" style=3D"color: blue; = text-decoration: underline; ">https://twitter.com/laurenweinstein=

&nbs= p;

----------------------------------= ---------

Archives:https://= yle=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; m= argin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">RSS Feed= :

http://www.listbox.com=

Archives

--Boundary_(ID_uhX1TndpdZ4WQNxYLlTThg)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jul 4 14:41:13 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8EYY@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8AYP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM800B013RZWZ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM8004JV3RY85@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC898465 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBB459CC8 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F374911CF for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED3211CD for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63KcDwB024329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:38:13 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Oops again. (A biggie, this time) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <32CFC04B-5A5D-48AA-8447-D248CDED4E0F@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: D5344E3A-6811-11DE-ACB5-9B317A347006 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Randall Webmail Date: July 3, 2009 4:02:43 PM EDT To: johnmacsgroup@yahoogroups.com, dewayne@warpspeed.com, dave@farber.net Subject: Oops again. (A biggie, this time) Northrop Hard Drive Turns Up in Ghana Published: 2 Jul 2009 14:46 Canadian journalism students bought a computer hard drive for $40 in the West African nation of Ghana and discovered that it contained sensitive information about U.S. defense contracts. The drive apparently once belonged to Northrop Grumman or a Northrop Grumman employee, and it contained information about contracts the company had with the Defense Department and the Department of Homeland Security. The students were in Ghana to work on a television report on the dumping of old electronic equipment there. According to the University of British Columbia, the students bought the hard drove in an open-air market in February. It contained information about a number of contracts, some that had been recently finished, others that were still ongoing. It also contained information about Northrop's effort to win a $1.2 billion contract to perform personnel management work for the Transportation Security Administration. Ultimately, the agency hired Lockheed Martin to perform the work. In a written statement, Northrop said, "we believe this hard drive may have been stolen after one or our asset-disposal vendors took possession of the unit." The company says it has "a detailed asset-disposal procedure in place," but "no company can inoculate itself completely against crime." The university said the discovery of the data-laden hard drive was reported to the FBI. Northrop Hard Drive Turns Up in Ghana - Defense News (3 July 2009) http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4169158 http://snipurl.com/lpx0o ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jul 4 14:41:14 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8EYY@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8AYP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM800B013S4XB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM8004K43ST85@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1DC88A7 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A66BA435 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82810A19B for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4855BA199 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63KfuwX028304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:41:56 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: No more 73402,3893 - CompuServe shuts down To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <62FFA03C-DEB3-4A47-9A60-B913282CB5DB@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_bLVTJgmeXVAQLrgy78HePg)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: F9D84412-6811-11DE-8AA1-2A86CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <7B22A5ACA2324C4D87D493620EDC35C69E63@gcsmfs01.GCS.local> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_bLVTJgmeXVAQLrgy78HePg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Tom Gable" Date: July 3, 2009 4:31:08 PM EDT To: Subject: RE: [IP] No more 73402,3893 - CompuServe shuts down Wasn=92t Prodigy the first online service? The offering from IBM and= =20 Sears? =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 10:02 AM To: ip Subject: [IP] No more 73402,3893 - CompuServe shuts down Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Jonathan B Spira" Date: July 3, 2009 11:54:12 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: No more 73402,3893 - CompuServe shuts down Dave After only 30 years... "The original CompuServe service, first offered in 1979, was shut dow= n =20 by its current owner, AOL this past week. The service, which provide= d =20 its users addresses such as 73402,3893, was the first major online = =20 service although the number of users has dwindled in recent years. " http://www.basexblog.com/2009/07/03/compuserve-requiem/ Regards/Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen/Sz=EDv=E9lyes =FCdv=F6zlet/Cordia= lement/=20 Cordiali saluti/Saludos/V=E4nliga h=E4lsningar /s/ Jonathan Jonathan B. Spira CEO and Chief Analyst Basex, Inc. 8 http://www.basex.com Archives =09 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_bLVTJgmeXVAQLrgy78HePg) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_u5lQnMkHP7Tk76PDZ6yGQw)"; type="text/html" --Boundary_(ID_u5lQnMkHP7Tk76PDZ6yGQw) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Tom Gable" <tom@gablepr.com= >

Date: July 3, 2009 4:31:08 PM EDT

<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">To: <dave@farber.net>

Su= bject: RE: [IP] No more 73402,3893 - CompuServe shuts d= own

Wasn=92t Prodigy the first online service? The offering = =66rom IBM and Sears?

From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.n= et]
Sent= : Friday, July = 03, 2009 10:02 AM
To:= ip
Subject: [IP] No more 73402,3893 - CompuServe shuts down<= /o:p>

<= /div>

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jonathan B Spira" <jspira@basex.com&= gt;

July 3, 2009 11:54:12 AM EDT

To:&nb= sp;David Farber <dave@farber.n= et>

Subject: No more 73402,3893 - CompuServe shuts down<= /o:p>

Dave = ;

After only 30 years...

"The original CompuServe service,= first offered in 1979, was shut down by its current owner, AOL this = past week. The service, which provided its users addresses such= as 73402,3893, was the first major online service although the numbe= r of users has dwindled in recent years. "&nbs= p;
<SNIP>&n= bsp;

ht= tp://www.basexblog.com/2009/07/03/compuserve-requiem/

Regards/Mi= t freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen/Sz=EDv=E9lyes =FCdv=F6zlet/Cordialement/Cor= diali saluti/Saludos/V=E4nliga h=E4lsningar

/s/ Jonathan

=
Jonathan B. Spira
CEO and Chief= Analyst
Basex, Inc.
8&n= bsp;http://www.basex.com<= /o:p>

Archives

<= /span>

Archives

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Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8AYP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM800D014BFD7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM800C2J4BF9Z@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C991DA3D2 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F13A419 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91431A285 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36553A283 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63KqQwI025271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:52:26 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] U.S. Confirms Inquiry Into Google Books Deal - NYTimes.com To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <7A488081-96A2-4CBD-AA86-2105B9CE176B@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: 6CA6376E-6813-11DE-84DC-A591CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/03/technology/companies/03google.html?= hpw SAN FRANCISCO =97 The Justice Department confirmed on Thursday that i= t =20 was conducting an antitrust investigation into the settlement of a = =20 lawsuit that groups representing authors and publishers filed against= =20 Google. snip ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jul 4 14:41:16 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8EYY@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8AYP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM800E014N69D@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM800CCM4N6LP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBB38199 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB656ABBC for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAACAA353 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C5DA350 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n63KxXNR028605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:59:33 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] I MISSED THIS ONE --Appeals Court Revives the CFIT Anti-Trust Suit Against VeriSign To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <58CA58EC-6FAD-48C4-8F16-59D63EB7F454@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_zOHCn3orj0aUGEuxHdaCBA)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 70A640D8-6814-11DE-9777-6254CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_zOHCn3orj0aUGEuxHdaCBA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.circleid.com/posts/20090605_appeals_court_revives_cfit_anti_trust_suit_against_verisign/ Back in 2005 an organization called the Coalition for Internet Transparency (CFIT) burst upon the scene at the Vancouver ICANN meeting, and filed an anti-trust suit against VeriSign for their monopoly control of the .COM registry and of the market in expiring .COM domains. They didn't do very well in the trial court, which granted Verisign's motion to dismiss the case. But yesterday the Ninth Circuit reversed the trial court and put the suit back on track. In the decision [PDF], a three judge panel told the district court that the suit has enough basis to proceed. CFIT claims that VeriSign engaged in a variety of predatory conduct including financial pressure, astroturf lobbying, and vexatious lawsuits to get ICANN to renew the .COM agreement on very favorable terms, including what is in practice eternal renewal of the contract with annual price increases. As part of that process, VeriSign settled the suit, paid ICANN several million dollars, and promised never to lobby against ICANN again. In the 20 page decision, the appeals court basically said that CFIT's claims about the .COM renewal, the domain market, and the expiring domain market were plausible, crediting a brief from the Internet Commerce Association for explaining the expiring domain market to them. They note that an earlier case from 2001 that didn't find a separate market in expiring domains appears no longer relevant, since the domain market has evolved a lot since then. snip ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_zOHCn3orj0aUGEuxHdaCBA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

http://www.circleid.com/posts/200= 90605_appeals_court_revives_cfit_anti_trust_suit_against_verisign/

= Back in 2005 an organization called the Coalition for Internet Transp= arency (CFIT) burst upon the scene at the Vancouver ICANN meeting, an= d filed an anti-trust suit against VeriSign for their monopoly contro= l of the .COM registry and of the market in expiring .COM domains. Th= ey didn't do very well in the trial court, which granted Verisign's m= otion to dismiss the case. But yesterday the Ninth Circuit reversed t= he trial court and put the suit back on track.
In the decisio= n [PDF], a three judge panel told the district court that th= e suit has enough basis to proceed. CFIT claims that VeriSign engaged= in a variety of predatory conduct including financial pressure, astr= oturf lobbying, and vexatious lawsuits to get ICANN to renew the .COM= agreement on very favorable terms, including what is in practice ete= rnal renewal of the contract with annual price increases. As part of = that process, VeriSign settled the suit, paid ICANN several million d= ollars, and promised never to lobby against ICANN again.
In the 20 page decis= ion, the appeals court basically said that CFIT's claims about the .C= OM renewal, the domain market, and the expiring domain market were pl= ausible, crediting a brief from the Internet Commerce Association for= explaining the expiring domain market to them. They note that an ear= lier case from 2001 that didn't find a separate market in expiring do= mains appears no longer relevant, since the domain market has evolved= a lot since then.

snip

Archives

--Boundary_(ID_zOHCn3orj0aUGEuxHdaCBA)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sat Jul 4 14:41:17 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8EYY@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900J01T8AYP@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KM900G01GO58S@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KM900F8YGO5FT@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9EB8333 for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C6FAE68 for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C42A78E for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF36A789 for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n64EHCoO010098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:17:12 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: ISOC and IETF budgets To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <685F41CA-A1A6-4D47-9B83-8944C7914303@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: 604251BE-68A5-11DE-8CDE-73AECBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090704090608.41246.qmail@simone.iecc.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: John Levine Date: July 4, 2009 5:06:08 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] ISOC and IETF budgets > And how do we find out where ISOC is spending the rest of the money > djf It's in their budget, which is quite detailed: http://www.isoc.org/isoc/fin/ From a quick read, I see that ISOC's main problem is what to do with all the money that .org is gushing. Until 2005 their annual budget was never over $4M, but it's now $17M in 2009 heading for $20M in 2012. Their contribution to the IETF is under $2M, with the other $15M going to their traditional activities of supporting and enabling Internet wonderfulness. (I perhaps paraphrase a little here.) It's quite clear that if ISOC thought that the IETF's meeting fees were a problem, they could without a lot of trouble find another million bucks either to increase the current contribution, which would allow the meeting fees to drop by about half, or as scholarships or fee waivers to direct the subsidy to people who need or deserve it more. R's, John ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Sun Jul 5 10:16:59 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMB00701BO4A3@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMB00701BO19P@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMA00M015MBDK@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMA00M3Z5MB5H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06075AFDE for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042B5A23C for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A18F7A23C for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77544A23A for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n64NFmsK001429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:15:47 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] an idle query... To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <2F391EF3-EA83-412D-9085-ADDE073463E7@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: A0AC0E3E-68F0-11DE-A0BC-CD6ACBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Bruce R Koball Date: July 4, 2009 6:14:13 PM EDT To: David Farber Subject: an idle query... Dave, An idle query for the IP brain trust over the long weekend, if it's not a distraction: Lately, in the past few months, I've been getting spam with curious content in addition to the normal stuff being pitched. In the text are numerous lines of what appear to be hexadecimal characters enclosed in square brackets, like this: [DAE82C17E74CA345C25E3DBC6FDAB2ACBDFF3F9695A28E1AD7731CFF842D7F1E] Often the lines are repeated identically dozens of times with an occasional unique line inserted, but the format is always the same... hex chars enclosed in brackets. This is new in my experience; I can think of a dozen explanations, some benign and some nefarious. Does anyone really know WTFIGO here? -brk- Bruce R. Koball ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jul 6 08:56:11 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LJ90@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LF8N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMB00801C7XVD@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMB0049BC7XLH@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDB9B670 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3B1BD5F for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E9DA881 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC65A87E for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n65EZruB002831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:35:53 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] caught trying to fool the biometrics To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Iu9m0Enbohf0j4Zhq8gcdQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 2C655928-6971-11DE-85A8-C593CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_Iu9m0Enbohf0j4Zhq8gcdQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Rodney Van Meter Date: July 5, 2009 7:43:57 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: caught trying to fool the biometrics http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20090630a4.html NARITA, Chiba Pref. (Kyodo) Immigration authorities have successfully detected four people since January trying to enter Japan --Boundary_(ID_Iu9m0Enbohf0j4Zhq8gcdQ) Content-type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0666; name=spacer.gif Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=spacer.gif R0lGODlhAQABAJEAAAAAAP///////wAAACH5BAEAAAIALAAAAAABAAEAAAICVAEA Ow== --Boundary_(ID_Iu9m0Enbohf0j4Zhq8gcdQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE illegally by trying to fool the biometric identity system. Officials at Narita International Airport said Monday the four had = =20 altered their fingerprints by having patterns surgically removed and = =20 stitched or even filed down. =2E.. The four people detected at Narita were arrested and told Chiba polic= e =20 investigators that their fingerprints were altered with surgery =20 performed in China, where they had paid doctors 5,000 yuan (roughly = =20 =A570,000) for the procedure, according to the police. Police suspect possible involvement by organized human-traffickers in= =20 China. Brings up the obvious question: how many people successfully slip = =20 through? And how much is it really worth to slip into Japan? =09=09--Rod ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_Iu9m0Enbohf0j4Zhq8gcdQ)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jul 6 08:56:12 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LJ90@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LF8N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMB00801C9QZO@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMB003XDC9QD2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF5DA272 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C817CBA93 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25A22A8AA for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B148A8A9 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n65EZruC002831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:36:50 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] surveillance cameras run by neighborhood assocs in Japan? or 1984 comes to Japan? djf To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_VQ/QsHpYH2vnN8GGeoCueQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: 519EECCC-6971-11DE-873B-5B9FCBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <7326CBD3-D4AC-4648-B454-8F9DF05F1F9D@sfc.wide.ad.jp> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_VQ/QsHpYH2vnN8GGeoCueQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Rodney Van Meter Date: July 5, 2009 7:35:52 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: surveillance cameras run by neighborhood assocs in Japan? http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20090626a1.html The National Police Agency --Boundary_(ID_VQ/QsHpYH2vnN8GGeoCueQ) Content-type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0666; name=spacer.gif Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=spacer.gif R0lGODlhAQABAJEAAAAAAP///////wAAACH5BAEAAAIALAAAAAABAAEAAAICVAEA Ow== --Boundary_(ID_VQ/QsHpYH2vnN8GGeoCueQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT said Thursday that security camera networks will be installed in 15 residential areas in 14 prefectures as part of efforts to prevent crime and better protect children. The announcement, however, prompted some citizen groups to complain that the move is an attempt by the police to boost surveillance of the public. The police plan to launch the first such domestic residential network around next January, according to NPA officials. They will entrust volunteer groups of residents to operate and manage the equipment and image data, they said. The nation's police forces "will help residents to secure safety by themselves," an official at the agency said. "To protect children," of course. The citizens' groups to run the cameras haven't yet been picked. --Rod ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_VQ/QsHpYH2vnN8GGeoCueQ)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jul 6 08:56:13 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LJ90@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LF8N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMB00E01PNMX0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMB00AI6PNMB9@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 436D292C3 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E83A222 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7038FA7AD for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D12A7AB for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:26:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n65JQUjV018747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:26:29 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: surveillance cameras run by neighborhood assocs in Japan? or 1984 comes to Japan? djf To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <4DF1BC4C-87CB-42E6-BFD9-D3F76B56C001@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: BEF95DD4-6999-11DE-8EA3-019ECBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <20090705151307.GC24376@vortex.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein Date: July 5, 2009 11:13:07 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] surveillance cameras run by neighborhood assocs in Japan? or 1984 comes to Japan? djf Dave, the same sort of thing -- and totally unregulated -- is going on here in the U.S., e.g. Lancaster, PA: http://bit.ly/KFcbt --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenweinstein - - - On 07/05 10:36, David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Rodney Van Meter > Date: July 5, 2009 7:35:52 AM EDT > To: David Farber > Subject: surveillance cameras run by neighborhood assocs in Japan? > > http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20090626a1.html > > The National Police Agency > said Thursday that security camera networks will be installed in 15 > residential areas in 14 prefectures as part of efforts to prevent > crime > and better protect children. > > The announcement, however, prompted some citizen groups to complain > that > the move is an attempt by the police to boost surveillance of the > public. > > The police plan to launch the first such domestic residential network > around next January, according to NPA officials. > > They will entrust volunteer groups of residents to operate and manage > the equipment and image data, they said. > > The nation's police forces "will help residents to secure safety by > themselves," an official at the agency said. > > > > "To protect children," of course. > > The citizens' groups to run the cameras haven't yet been picked. > > --Rod > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jul 6 08:56:14 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LJ90@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LF8N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMB00E01POHZ5@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMB00D8HPOHC0@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30374A816 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEC3A7F5 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBF6A7B2 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:26:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D0AA7B1 for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n65JQUjW018747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:26:45 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: an idle query... To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <53FF4A11-4A01-4D3A-ACAC-0EA28D829D96@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: C9138952-6999-11DE-B11E-50A1CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4A50E254.8010806@terabites.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Gordon Peterson Date: July 5, 2009 1:26:44 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] an idle query... I can't say definitively either. Usually random characters are inserted into spam to avoid the spam messages from being identical with too many other spams from the same source... as a way of avoiding setting off bulk-spam alarms and (consequently) filters. Another reason might be to test for presence of antivirus filters which worked based on the encoded viral attachments' signatures... and perhaps to determine which signatures set those detectors off. Another explanation might be that they could be 'instructions' being sent to software somewhere monitoring e-mail transmissions arriving (or even just passing through). In that case, though, I would think that adding the 'instructions' to an obscure header message would be less obvious. None of these would seem to indicate though why there would need to be multiple identical copies of the same hex strings in a single message. On the same order of question, though, let me pose a different one: over the last six months or so, I've had people from strange third- world countries (who I don't know, and who I don't see that I have anything at all in common with... and with NO idea of why they picked ME to communicate with) contact me via Skype and begging me to add them to my contact list. I'm not aware that being on someone's Skype contact list gives them any special accesses (e.g. to be able to view my other Skype contacts or some such) so I'm wondering what the catch is... what's the downside of going ahead and adding these folks? Skype seems robust, so I'm not aware of any back doors open to people on my contact list there. What's their game? Anybody know? David Farber wrote: > Begin forwarded message: > From: Bruce R Koball > Date: July 4, 2009 6:14:13 PM EDT > To: David Farber > Subject: an idle query... > Dave, > An idle query for the IP brain trust over the long weekend, if it's > not a distraction: > Lately, in the past few months, I've been getting spam with curious > content in addition to the normal stuff being pitched. In the text > are numerous lines of what appear to be hexadecimal characters > enclosed in square brackets, like this: > [DAE82C17E74CA345C25E3DBC6FDAB2ACBDFF3F9695A28E1AD7731CFF842D7F1E] > Often the lines are repeated identically dozens of times with an > occasional unique line inserted, but the format is always the same... > hex chars enclosed in brackets. > This is new in my experience; I can think of a dozen explanations, > some benign and some nefarious. > Does anyone really know WTFIGO here? > -brk- > Bruce R. Koball -- Gordon Peterson II http://personal.terabites.com 1977-2007: Thirty year anniversary of local area networking ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jul 6 08:56:15 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LJ90@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LF8N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMC00K01G8ORI@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMC00FEGG8OMQ@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B069378 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D0CA252 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C50EDB841 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2E0B840 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n6650dHq005332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:00:39 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Weitzner To Head NTIA Policy Shop To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: FAF5C8D6-69E9-11DE-A13F-4F48CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 http://techdailydose.nationaljournal.com/2009/07/weitzner-to-head-ntia-policy-s.php Weitzner To Head NTIA Policy Shop Daniel Weitzner will be the next chief of the policy office at the Department of Commerce's National Telecommunications and Information Administration, according to government sources. Weitzner served as a technology advisor to President Obama's campaign for president. He has been involved in the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and co-directs MIT's Decentralized Information Group with Internet expert Tim Berners- Lee. Weitzner was a founder and deputy director for the Center for Democracy and Technology and has also been a senior staff counsel at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jul 6 08:56:16 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LJ90@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LF8N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMC00801YALD2@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMC0055EYALTW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6592BABC for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DCDB58A for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CA85B6F7 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1210CB6F4 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n66BTVCn005529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:30:30 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] quantum architecture, and "Science 2.0" To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <8567D3B4-41BA-47FE-BE1A-93EC4D118CC7@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: 6A44F3F2-6A20-11DE-B1E5-6F42CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Rodney Van Meter Date: July 6, 2009 7:25:30 AM EDT To: David Farber Subject: quantum architecture, and "Science 2.0" Dave, Slightly different thread: In some ways, the system I am working on (an effort led by Thaddeus Ladd of Yoshi Yamamoto's group at Stanford) is an infrared version of the same thing that the Yale gang is doing in microwave. (In other ways, it's very different.) We have been attacking the problem from both the top-level architecture (my domain, with lots of help from Thaddeus, Austin Fowler of Melbourne, and Jim Harrington of Los Alamos) and the bottom-level materials issues (a Stanford grad student). We think our system is very promising at all levels, and we think we have a pretty complete architectural and technological story. But I'm not giving away any state secrets when I say that we are still years from demonstrating anything as good as what these guys have accomplished. For some of our current work, see http://arxiv.org/abs/0906.2686 which is currently under open review for an IJQI special issue; comments welcome at http://quantalk.org/view.php?id1=139&thread=1 (our NSF grant: http://128.150.4.107/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0829694 ) You are also welcome to comment on the open review process, at http://quantalk.org/view.php?id1=135&thread=1 This is headed toward "Science 2.0", where ideas, data, and paper reviews are done in the open. Other ways in which quantum computing/quantum physics is pushiing in this direction include: http://scirate.com/ where you can give a paper a "thumbs up" (called a SciTe) and/or comment on it, right after it appears on the arXiv (itself an open preprint server and the first, long-standing step toward a more open publication process). http://www.quantiki.org/video_abstracts People have begun experimenting with posting 3-6 minute introductions, or video abstracts, for some papers, using YouTube. This is the "elevator pitch" for a paper -- a way to describe what you think is important, and help people to decide whether or not to read the full paper. A small step toward a more interactive way of doing Science, IMHO. --Rod ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Mon Jul 6 08:56:17 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LJ90@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00L012LF8N@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMC00B01ZGQGE@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMC009GCZGQCD@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9B092ED for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CB8BAB3A for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D594BC9E for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 022FBBC9D for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n66BtgQg024081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:55:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:55:42 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] GOOD READ Scientists Create First Working Model of a Two-Qubit Electronic Quantum Processo To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.201.16 X-Listbox-UUID: F685C49C-6A23-11DE-9052-EF99CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <48999F9B-6B76-4C89-AB6F-73AB8AD59CFB@sfc.wide.ad.jp> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: Rodney Van Meter Date: July 6, 2009 7:24:14 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: "ip" Subject: Re: [IP] Scientists Create First Working Model of a Two-Qubit Electronic Quantum Processor Dave, for IP, if you wish, and Happy Fourth of July to all. Re: Yale's "electronic" two-qubit quantum computer: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nature08121.html http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=115089&govDel=USNSF_51 And related links: http://qulab.eng.yale.edu/transmon_proj.htm http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0703002 Let's cut through the press release BS and the non-technical "quantum phonebook lookup" stuff and get right to the point: This paper rocks. With a paper like this on my c.v., I could die a happy man. This paper has far fewer caveats to it than almost any other experimental quantum computing paper I have seen. There are only one or two issues with it, which we'll get to. They have actually implemented a two-qubit system and run both the Grover and Deutsch-Jozsa algorithms, running ten actual quantum gates (some one-qubit gates, some two-qubit gates) and getting roughly 90% fidelity out. That's outstanding, and, as the press release says, the first time that I'm aware of that anyone has done this with a lithographically fabricated, solid-state system with electronic control. Their system uses the "transmon" qubit type, a word you can expect to hear more often. The transmon is a relatively new design, and has been coming on like gangbusters, that group has produced a bunch of outstanding results in a very short period of time. The qubit itself is coupled to a long waveguide which serves as a resonator cavity, with standing wave modes that interact with the qubit. It's like an electronic version of cavity QED, in which photons bounce repeatedly between two mirrors and interact with a single atom in the cavity, so this is sometimes called a "circuit cavity QED" architecture. Most experimental QC papers have at least one of the following flaws: * no full two-axis control of a qubit (you have to be able rotate the vector of a qubit to anywhere on a unit sphere) * qubits are hard to initialize * qubits are hard to read out * gates are slow * the coupling between two qubits can't really be turned on and off * the lifetime of the quantum state is so short you can't really do anything with it * qubit-to-qubit variation means it doesn't really work well A couple of the more famous architectural proposals have the flaw: * They're almost impossible to fabricate (so no one has succeeded yet) * or, as in purely tabletop optical systems, everything is hand-built. This paper has none of these flaws. The shortcomings their architecture does have: * the structures are physically large; the supporting structure for a single qubit is 300 microns by ~30, and it must be coupled to a long waveguide that serves as the cavity -- 1cm long, give or take; that length is dictated by the wavelength of the microwave photons used for coupling, and (probably) cannot be shortened. * since the cavity (which they call the quantum bus, no relation to the qubus architecture of my collaborators) is shared, it will be limited to only a few qubits, and competition for access to the bus will limit performance * they haven't yet talked about how to scale beyond a single cavity with a few qubits; switching microwave photons from one cavity to another in principle isn't hard, but a lot of engineering will be needed as the loss requirements are probably very stringent. * beyond switching from one cavity to another, they will need the ability to couple qubits in separate chips, which will take yet more engineering. In addition, scalability of fabrication will be an issue; they have cleverly used a partly optical, partly e-beam lithographic method, but e-beam is low-throughput. Despite the overall size of the structures, a few critical components (notably the Josephson junction at the core of the qubit) require very precise fabrication. This is a common shortcoming in proposed solid-state systems (including the one I am currently working on), but I think it can be solved -- it's "just" engineering money, and Intel and others have a VERY strong vested interest in continuing to shrink the size of features they can reproducibly fabricate at very high speed. This system, like many solid-state systems, must be run at EXTREMELY low temperatures; their experiments were done at 13 millikelvin. Yes, about 1/80th of one degree. This is achieved using a dilution refrigerator. One strength of bus-based systems that they didn't discuss is their natural defect tolerance: if one qubit doesn't work, you just ignore it and use the ones that do. In some other systems, nearest-neighbor interactions are required, and one defect can ruin the utility of a large chain. Their 90% fidelity is very good for experimental physics, they demonstrate very clearly that their system works. But it's still about two orders of magnitude from what we need to really build large-scale quantum computers. Error rates of ~0.7% are currently considered to be the "threshold" below which using quantum error correction makes your net error rate lower, rather than higher, but to be practical you need to be one to two orders of magnitude better than that. They say that their bus will support several qubits; that's the natural next set of experiments. I would expect to see 3-5 qubits from them within a year or two, but then system size will likely stall, and they will go back to working on fidelity. --Rod ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jul 8 07:40:28 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OFB4T@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OF74H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00201CS1ZN@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMD000F6CS1T1@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EF6B570 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE27EB881 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC16AB38A for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5CDB387 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n66Ggge5018359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:43:05 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: Oops again. (A biggie, this time) To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_UJldYb+QejzHb58bM267rQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: 172E0772-6A4C-11DE-B0A3-5E68CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_UJldYb+QejzHb58bM267rQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Begin forwarded message: From: Labmanager Date: July 6, 2009 11:49:31 AM EDT To: dave@farber.net Subject: Re: [IP] Oops again. (A biggie, this time) Dr. Farber I saw the Frontline piece on electronic dumping which broke this story. I'd like to add that while Northrup may have procedures in place to make sure hard drives are destroyed, they do not destroy the hard drives on the personal home based computers of their employees. I have known Northrup employees and I've known employees of other defense contractors, all are under pressure to meet deadlines and offen work from home to meet those deadlines. Company policy or not, sensitive material is regularly brought home in electronic form and placed on personal computers, which in turn could easily end up in foreign dumping grounds. For years I've believed this issue to be a huge nationwide security breach. As the Frontline investigators demonstrated, it's very easy to track a computer to a shipping container then to a specific country. Think about it, countries like China have tremendous cheap labor reserves, which they could easily use to scan hard drives for personal data. Imagine foriegn agents tracking electronic junk shipments from federal employee and contractor rich states like Maryland, DC, Virginia, then directing it to places where the data can be recovered. Even if the drives don't contain sensitive government data , there is personal information such as financial records, tax records, stored pornography, etc. etc. All of which can be used to blackmail existing federal and state employees. Personal debt is the # 1 reason Americans sell classified da This is an intelligence gold mine. Everytime I go to the land fill, I see mounds of computers in bins which have been separated from the other waste, all ready to be shipped out. This story is just the tip of a very large iceberg. Jerry On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:38 PM, David Farber wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Randall Webmail Date: July 3, 2009 4:02:43 PM EDT To: johnmacsgroup@yahoogroups.com, dewayne@warpspeed.com, dave@farber.net Subject: Oops again. (A biggie, this time) Northrop Hard Drive Turns Up in Ghana Published: 2 Jul 2009 14:46 Canadian journalism students bought a computer hard drive for $40 in the West African nation of Ghana and discovered that it contained sensitive information about U.S. defense contracts. The drive apparently once belonged to Northrop Grumman or a Northrop Grumman employee, and it contained information about contracts the company had with the Defense Department and the Department of Homeland Security. The students were in Ghana to work on a television report on the dumping of old electronic equipment there. According to the University of British Columbia, the students bought the hard drove in an open-air market in February. It contained information about a number of contracts, some that had been recently finished, others that were still ongoing. It also contained information about Northrop's effort to win a $1.2 billion contract to perform personnel management work for the Transportation Security Administration. Ultimately, the agency hired Lockheed Martin to perform the work. In a written statement, Northrop said, "we believe this hard drive may have been stolen after one or our asset-disposal vendors took possession of the unit." The company says it has "a detailed asset-disposal procedure in place," but "no company can inoculate itself completely against crime." The university said the discovery of the data-laden hard drive was reported to the FBI. Northrop Hard Drive Turns Up in Ghana - Defense News (3 July 2009) http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4169158 http://snipurl.com/lpx0o ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_UJldYb+QejzHb58bM267rQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: Labmanager <labmanager@= gmail.com>
Date: July 6, 2009 11:49:31 AM EDT<= /font>

To: dave@farber.net

= Subject: Re: [IP] Oops again. (A biggie, this time)<= /b>

Dr. Farber

I saw the Frontline piece on electronic dumping = which broke this story. I'd like to add that while Northrup may= have procedures in place to make sure hard drives are destroyed, the= y do not destroy the hard drives on the personal home based computers= of their employees. I have known Northrup employees and I've k= nown employees of other defense contractors, all are under pressure t= o meet deadlines and offen work from home to meet those deadlines.&nb= sp; Company policy or not, sensitive material is regularly brought ho= me in electronic form and placed on personal computers, which in turn= could easily end up in foreign dumping grounds.

For years I= 've believed this issue to be a huge nationwide security breach. = ; As the Frontline investigators demonstrated, it's very easy to trac= k a computer to a shipping container then to a specific country. = ; Think about it, countries like China have tremendous cheap labor re= serves, which they could easily use to scan hard drives for personal = data. Imagine foriegn agents tracking electronic junk shipments= from federal employee and contractor rich states like Maryland, DC, = Virginia, then directing it to places where the data can be recovered= .

Even if the drives don't contain sensitive government data = , there is personal information such as financial records, tax record= s, stored pornography, etc. etc. All of which can be used to blackmai= l existing federal and state employees. Personal debt is the # = 1 reason Americans sell classified da

This is an intelligence= gold mine. Everytime I go to the land fill, I see mounds of co= mputers in bins which have been separated from the other waste, all r= eady to be shipped out. This story is just the tip of a very la= rge iceberg.

Jerry

= On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:38 PM, David Farber <<= a href=3D"mailto:dave@farber.net" target=3D"_blank">dave@farber.net> wrote:

Begin forwarded message:

From:= Randall Webmail <rvh40@insightbb.com>
Date: July 3, 2009 4:02:4= 3 PM EDT
To: johnmacsgroup@yahoogroups.com, dewayne@warpspeed.com, dave@farber.net
Subject: Oops again. (A biggie, this time)

North= rop Hard Drive Turns Up in Ghana
Published: 2 Jul 2009 14:46
=
Canadian journalism students bought a computer hard drive for $4= 0 in the West African nation of Ghana and discovered that it containe= d sensitive information about U.S. defense contracts.

The dr= ive apparently once belonged to Northrop Grumman or a Northrop Grumma= n employee, and it contained information about contracts the company = had with the Defense Department and the Department of Homeland Securi= ty.

The students were in Ghana to work on a television repor= t on the dumping of old electronic equipment there.

Accordin= g to the University of British Columbia, the students bought the hard= drove in an open-air market in February. It contained information ab= out a number of contracts, some that had been recently finished, othe= rs that were still ongoing. It also contained information about North= rop's effort to win a $1.2 billion contract to perform personnel mana= gement work for the Transportation Security Administration. Ultimatel= y, the agency hired Lockheed Martin to perform the work.

In = a written statement, Northrop said, "we believe this hard drive may h= ave been stolen after one or our asset-disposal vendors took possessi= on of the unit."

The company says it has "a detailed asset-d= isposal procedure in place," but "no company can inoculate itself com= pletely against crime."

The university said the discovery of= the data-laden hard drive was reported to the FBI.
Northrop Hard= Drive Turns Up in Ghana - Defense News (3 July 2009)
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3D4169158
<= a href=3D"http://snipurl.com/lpx0o" target=3D"_blank">http://snipurl.= com/lpx0o

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--Boundary_(ID_UJldYb+QejzHb58bM267rQ)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jul 8 07:40:29 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OFB4T@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OF74H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00E01GT804@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMD00BFDGTIAD@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCCEC95E8 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9B5AC23 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB17B2AD for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FADCB2AA for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n66IArGs028242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:10:55 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Justice Dept. Launches Informal Review of U.S. Telecom Industry To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: 5A019B3E-6A58-11DE-B03E-9557CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: From: "Ronald J Riley $RJR Com$" Date: July 6, 2009 1:05:58 PM EDT To: Subject: FW: WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Justice Dept. Launches Informal Review of U.S. Telecom Industry The cellular industry has become pretty arrogant and need to be reigned in. Perhaps this is the start. Ronald J Riley According to WSJ Technology Alert: "The Justice Department has begun an initial review of the U.S. telecom industry, according to people familiar with the matter. It isn't clear whether the agency intends to launch an official inquiry." "Among the areas the Justice Department could explore is whether wireless carriers are hurting smaller competitors by locking up popular phones through exclusive agreements with handset makers. In recent weeks lawmakers and regulators have raised questions about deals such as AT&T's exclusive right to provide service for Apple's popular iPhone in the U.S." http://online.wsj.com/article/ SB124689740762401297.html#mod=djemalertTECH ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jul 8 07:40:30 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OFB4T@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OF74H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00B01O5ASB@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMD00AAUO5ABF@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7679616 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77AC1AB72 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4EFBD26 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C058ABD25 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n66KnBG8007214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:49:11 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] The Minds of Net Scammers To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <6B9876C0-00A5-4535-95C6-9D90307AA417@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: 76BCAB18-6A6E-11DE-A25B-56A6CBDD8FDF X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <2A600921-6956-43DC-B421-7E32358ABEB7@warpspeed.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: dewayne@warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: July 6, 2009 1:43:18 PM EDT To: Dewayne-Net Technology List Subject: [Dewayne-Net] The Minds of Net Scammers [Note: This item comes from friend Dave Hughes. DLH] =46rom: "Dave Hughes" Date: July 6, 2009 10:30:15 AM PDT To: "'Dewayne Hendricks'" Cc: "'Dave Hughes'" Subject: The Minds of Net Scammers Hey Dewayne. Maybe your maillisters could answer my question. I have, over the last 7+ years at LEAST gotten one or more offers = =20 EVERY DAY to get millions of dollars from email scammers in my email. Which all= =20 of you undoubtedly get too. All of which I or my junk mail discards, the = =20 minute I see the routine and EVER repeated opening like "You don't know me = =20 but..." Or "I am the Vice President of a London Bank who controls an account has= =20 been dormant) " or "I am a widow of a wealthy industrialist in Nigeria but= =20 I have "Esophageal cancer" ..." Now my question, has anyone EVER heard of ONE of these solicited offe= rs which routinely promise millions ever suckered anyone to bite and = =20 shell out =91earnest=92 money to get that scam bonanza? (Which is the only goal= that =20 I can see being pursued by the scammers with these messages) What amazes me is the absolute lack of ORIGINALITY of these messages.= =20 As if someone has found a Pavlovian 'winning appeal' message that elicits a response and somebody has been milked of some real money and word of = =20 that success has really gotten around. While over the past 5 years - the n= ame dropping and self descriptions and never rounding the improbable amou= nt (=91$15 million=92 but like another this morning that states "One of = our accounts with holding balance of =A325,549,000.00 (Twenty Five Millio= n =20 five Hundred and fourty nine Thousand British Pounds sterling) have gotte= n =20 ever more 'authoritative' sounding =96 with job titles and references to institutions - but ALWAYS the pitch is instantly recognizable by the = =20 very first lines of the email as an improbable fraud. And of course they a= re almost always from an exotic place - Singapore, Ghana, Nigeria. So are there that many stupid scammers around who fruitlessly repeat = ad nauseum the same pitch? Or are they such good students of 'mass = =20 marketing=92 statistical probabilities that they know one in a hundred thousand em= ail recipients will buy into anything? Ad salesmen out of work or gone = =20 bad? Is it that the old saying =91 A sucker is born every minute=92 been ad= apted =20 to the Internet as =91A sucker with a credit card and an email address i= s =20 born every 250,000 emails?=92 Now I know my email address has been around a long time since (in the= =20 late 1980=92s) - I got a (rare) Class C address space and tied up =20 oldcolo.com, but that can=92t be the only reason. Where is the graduate student who has done his Phd thesis on the brai= n content of Internet scammers? And figured out what they think they = =20 know and why? And how often people fall for it? Dave HughesRSS Feed: ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jul 8 07:40:31 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OFB4T@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OF74H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMD00B01O77XV@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMD00ABUO77BF@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.56]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0DA92DD for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA27FB665 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F173E21F5 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C06021F4 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:49:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n66KnBG9007214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:49:52 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Justice Dept. Launches Informal Review of U.S. Telecom Industry To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_g9LfudQYOz142bubKEFMjQ)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: 8FB33CE0-6A6E-11DE-96BB-B63445274082 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <014f01c9fe75$15b63060$41229120$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_g9LfudQYOz142bubKEFMjQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: July 6, 2009 4:05:17 PM EDT To: , "'ip'" Subject: RE: [IP] WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Justice Dept. Launches =20 Informal Review of U.S. Telecom Industry I hope they do more than just focus on the symptoms like cellular = =20 pricing. Is there any possibility of addressing the inherent conflict of =20 interest between the 19th century idea of communications as a service= =20 and the 21st century notion that we can create our own services and = =20 just need facilities maintenance, AKA infrastructure? We saw the value liberated when we decoupled IBM's hardware from its = =20 software and the Internet has shown the same thing for telecom. Is it= =20 too much to expect a reexamination of the assumptions that define = =20 today=92s telecom? -----Original Message----- =46rom: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 14:11 To: ip Subject: [IP] WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Justice Dept. Launches Informal = =20 Review of U.S. Telecom Industry Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Ronald J Riley $RJR Com$" Date: July 6, 2009 1:05:58 PM EDT To: Subject: FW: WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Justice Dept. Launches Informal Review of U.S. Telecom Industry The cellular industry has become pretty arrogant and need to be reigned in. Perhaps this is the start. Ronald J Riley According to WSJ Technology Alert: "The Justice Department has begun an initial review of the U.S. telec= om industry, according to people familiar with the matter. It isn't clea= r whether the agency intends to launch an official inquiry." "Among the areas the Justice Department could explore is whether wireless carriers are hurting smaller competitors by locking up popular phones through exclusive agreements with handset makers. In recent weeks lawmakers and regulators have raised questions about deals such as AT&T's exclusive right to provide service for Apple's popular iPhone in the U.S." http://online.wsj.com/article/ SB124689740762401297.html#mod=3DdjemalertTECH ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_g9LfudQYOz142bubKEFMjQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: July 6, 20= 09 4:05:17 PM EDT
To: <dave@farber.net>, "'ip'" <ip@v2.listbox.com>
Subject: RE: [IP= ] WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Justice Dept. Launches Informal Review of U.S= . Telecom Industry

=
I h= ope they do more than just focus on the symptoms like cellular pricin= g.
<= o:p>

We saw the value li= berated when we decoupled IBM's hardware from its software and the In= ternet has shown the same thing for telecom. Is it too much to expect= a reexamination of the assumptions that define today=92s telecom?
&= nbsp;

-----Original Message-----
From: David F= arber [mailto:dave@farber.net]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 14:= 11
To: ip
Subject: [IP] WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Justice Dept. Lau= nches Informal Review of U.S. Telecom Industry
<= /div>

Begin forwarded messa= ge:

From: "Ronald J Riley $RJR = Com$" <rjr@rjriley.com>
=
D= ate: July 6, 2009 1:05:58 PM EDT
To: <dave@farber.net>
Subject: FW: WSJ TECHNOLO= GY ALERT: Justice Dept. Launches Informal
Review= of U.S. Telecom Industry

&= nbsp;
The cellular industry has become pretty arrogant and = need to be
reigned in.
Perhaps th= is is the start.

Ronald J Ri= ley

According to WSJ Technology = Alert:

"The Justice Department h= as begun an initial review of the U.S. telecom
industr= y, according to people familiar with the matter. It isn't clear<= /o:p>
whether the agency intends to launch an official inquiry."<= o:p>

"Among the areas the Justice Dep= artment could explore is whether
wireless
carriers are hurting smaller competitors by locking up p= opular phones
through exclusive agreements with handse= t makers. In recent weeks
lawmakers
exclusive
right to provide serv= ice for Apple's popular iPhone in the U.S."
= ;
http://online.wsj.com/article/<= /a>
SB124689740762401297.html#mod=3DdjemalertTECH=

=

=
-------------------------------------------
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/= archive/247/=3Dnow
RSS Feed:
http://www.listbox.com
=

Archives

--Boundary_(ID_g9LfudQYOz142bubKEFMjQ)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jul 8 07:40:33 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OFB4T@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OF74H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KME00201PFAAA@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KME00L8LPF9O7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D081B3E7 for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4995BBF8E for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A052219 for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952A32218 for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n67ADnxb012131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:13:49 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel ==> telecom contributing to climate change? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <9C14E8E1-060B-459A-AE44-507846596EA4@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: DF410916-6ADE-11DE-9766-A4B3F2E52730 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4A52ABB5.8040600@acb.net> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Andrew C Burnette Date: July 6, 2009 9:58:13 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net, Bob Frankston Subject: Re: [IP] Re: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel =3D= =3D> =20 telecom contributing to climate change? Dave, et al, For IP if you so wish :-) it's an AT&T problem, or more precisely, "choice of 2g/3g" problem. I= 'll be the CDMA or 4G only iphone could be embarrassingly different. Big diff that seems confusing to the (u.s.a. only) cdma world is that 2G, 2+G and 3G in the GSM domain are different radios (GSM, GPRS, and UMTS(w-cdma)/EDGE (evolved-gsm) respectively), and thus, each consume= s some finite amount of power and cpu/dsp time. in CDMA, 3G (EVDO) is simply another 1.25Mhz CDMA channel, dedicated to data use. essential= ly, same radio, same access algorithms, etc, thus no real difference or addition in power consumption when quiescent. (all are relatively bad= at handling IP/packet based data efficiently) As to 4G, yes will robinson, there is a significant decrease in the amount of power used, despite the higher data rates. base stations/controllers/sectors are down to 2watts per sector (90 or 120 degrees of coverage) from just shy of 10W for 3G and grossly more for 2g. Handset power gets lower, primarily due to CMOS production size shrink, and a much better DSP to pull apart the multiple signals prio= r to an ultra low power fft in the device. battery life increases a goo= d bit, but this also allows handset manufacturers to spend power elsewhere, or to add features. (some additional factors include 4G's technological timing allowing f= or placement of the amplifiers right on the back of antennae rather than 100M away from a hut; thus SNR and standing wave problems are squashe= d effectively). Combined with better bookkeeping of handsets allows for longer sleep times between beacons and requests to the network. WiMAX looks more ietf derived, and LTE sticks with 3gpp principles. B= oth tend to be more power efficient, WiMAX likely to have a slight advant= age early on. (longer control cycles, and less overhead for packet data) As for WiFi, I'm surprised at how efficient it actually is. the origi= nal goals weren't low power, and most dual band handsets tend to consume more power with wifi enabled. Particularly if that wifi zone is busy. Cheers, Andy Burnette David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *"Bob Frankston" > > *Date: *July 3, 2009 1:34:59 PM EDT > *To: *>, "'ip'" > > > *Cc: *"'Lauren Weinstein'" >> > *Subject: **RE: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel =3D= =3D> =20 > telecom > contributing to climate change?* > > Perhaps we shouldn=92t be surprised that 3G uses so much power. Is = it > because you must contact a faraway base station rather than simply = =20 > using > the nearest access point =96 and cities they are typically very nea= r? Is > the protocol itself power hungry? Are 4G or WiMax any better? How m= uch > of the energy usage is due to the complexity of cellular > protocols=97supposedly 2G is lower usage than 3G? I=92d be interest= ed in > numbers from those who have done the analysis. > > If you multiple this by a hundreds of millions of phones and anothe= r > billion devices such medical monitoring devices then we have a huge > unnecessary energy footprint in order to give each entity its own > billable path rather than allowing more efficient sharing of bit = =20 > paths. > Same with =93broadband=94. > > Simply using the nearest Wi-Fi access point makes a lot more sense.= =20 > But > we still need to do work =96 I don=92t think that 802.11 puts much = =20 > emphasis > on managing power levels (does it?). > > Just as important are the post-ICANN protocols > to address > the problems with today= =92s > protocols which are dependent upon those (billable) paths and on th= e =20 > DNS > for faux stability. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:58 > To: ip > Subject: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel > > This battery problem has nothing to do with the new iPhone. The old > iPhone had basically the same problem. If you leave the phone in 3G > mode power consumption is quite heavy. If you leave the phone in > non-3G mode but with WiFi and Bluetooth enabled, I find on either > generation phone I can go most of the day and not go below 60% = =20 > battery. > > I have always berated Apple for stealing the battery on general > principles. But if anything I find the new iPhone 3GS to be better = on > the battery again as long as you keep it out of 3G mode unless you > need it. > > Dave > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Lauren Weinstein > > Date: July 3, 2009 12:15:54 PM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel > > > > New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel > > http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000591.html > > > Greetings. Before you even think about rushing out to buy the new > iPhone, you might want to read an interesting story about continuin= g > negative reactions to the iPhone 3GS' battery life > ( http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-iphone3-2009jul03,0,2546606= .story > ). > > Of course, all smartphones are power hungry, and we use these > Internet-enabled phones for so much more than just talking. But th= e > iPhone is a particularly egregious case since the battery is sealed > inside and not considered to be a "user replaceable" item. > > My G1 phone also sucks a lot of juice, but I can pop in an extra > charged battery anytime, and I have an extended duration battery > (bigger is better!) to use in there as well. > > With the iPhone, since battery life sucks, you're really stuck. > > There are, however, some comparatively ugly workarounds. One perso= n > responding just now to a tweet of mine on this topic says that he u= ses > a solar charger. I guess that's OK if you don't leave the iPhone > itself out in direct sun, and don't keep smashing your head into th= e > solar array (OK, so the solar array isn't really that big ...) > > A more practical way to deal with the problem may be something like > this external battery pack > ( http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3D2767656 -= - =20 > only > $20 on sale -- 50% discount -- at Radio Shack through July 11). Yo= u > can always duct tape it to your iPhone. Won't that be pretty? > > More generally, the whole concept of sealed-in batteries in Apple > devices strikes me as the epitome of "those suckers will buy anythi= ng > with our name on it -- boot to the head!" consumer relations. > > But hey, whatever turns you on. > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein > lauren@vortex.com > Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 > http://www.pfir.org/lauren > Co-Founder, PFIR > - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org > Co-Founder, NNSquad > - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org > Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition > for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org > Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com > Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy > Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com > Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenweinstein > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > =20 > Listbox] > > ------------------------------------------- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Wed Jul 8 07:40:34 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OFB4T@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00D01OF74H@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KME00201PJ3EW@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.5]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KME00L8YPJ3O7@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.38]) by b-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2412B89A for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF116B5AE for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1603226E for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F01E226D for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n67AG03L012536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:16:00 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] Re: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel ==> telecom contributing to climate change? To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <4A9F2840-032B-44E5-8D51-3BB06E230B58@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_EgzAHsQcOC/u1m0tEmav2g)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 X-Listbox-UUID: 2D3B721E-6ADF-11DE-BF1E-E6C38A858CA4 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <01f901c9fea8$74315240$5c93f6c0$@frankston.com> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_EgzAHsQcOC/u1m0tEmav2g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Begin forwarded message: =46rom: "Bob Frankston" Date: July 6, 2009 10:13:00 PM EDT To: "'Andrew C Burnette'" , Subject: RE: [IP] Re: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel =3D= =3D> =20 telecom contributing to climate change? Thanks -- I'd read only the EVDO specs which are indeed just a use of= =20 packets. You've explained the ability to assign different 3G =20 frequencies for each (GSM) carrier thus frustrated portability. This = =20 is the kind of structural problem that make it harder to prevent = =20 locking customers in =96 can antitrust lawyers deal with design =20 decisions that are enable market control =96 one more reason we need = to =20 look at the structure of the industry. I=92m also curious about the Bluetooth/802.11 power consumption =20 differences. -----Original Message----- =46rom: Andrew C Burnette [mailto:acb@acb.net] Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 21:58 To: dave@farber.net; Bob Frankston Subject: Re: [IP] Re: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel =3D=3D> = =20 telecom contributing to climate change? Dave, et al, For IP if you so wish :-) it's an AT&T problem, or more precisely, "choice of 2g/3g" problem. I= 'll be the CDMA or 4G only iphone could be embarrassingly different. Big diff that seems confusing to the (u.s.a. only) cdma world is that 2G, 2+G and 3G in the GSM domain are different radios (GSM, GPRS, and UMTS(w-cdma)/EDGE (evolved-gsm) respectively), and thus, each consume= s some finite amount of power and cpu/dsp time. in CDMA, 3G (EVDO) is simply another 1.25Mhz CDMA channel, dedicated to data use. essential= ly, same radio, same access algorithms, etc, thus no real difference or addition in power consumption when quiescent. (all are relatively bad= at handling IP/packet based data efficiently) As to 4G, yes will robinson, there is a significant decrease in the amount of power used, despite the higher data rates. base stations/controllers/sectors are down to 2watts per sector (90 or 120 degrees of coverage) from just shy of 10W for 3G and grossly more for 2g. Handset power gets lower, primarily due to CMOS production size shrink, and a much better DSP to pull apart the multiple signals prio= r to an ultra low power fft in the device. battery life increases a goo= d bit, but this also allows handset manufacturers to spend power elsewhere, or to add features. (some additional factors include 4G's technological timing allowing f= or placement of the amplifiers right on the back of antennae rather than 100M away from a hut; thus SNR and standing wave problems are squashe= d effectively). Combined with better bookkeeping of handsets allows for longer sleep times between beacons and requests to the network. WiMAX looks more ietf derived, and LTE sticks with 3gpp principles. B= oth tend to be more power efficient, WiMAX likely to have a slight advant= age early on. (longer control cycles, and less overhead for packet data) As for WiFi, I'm surprised at how efficient it actually is. the origi= nal goals weren't low power, and most dual band handsets tend to consume more power with wifi enabled. Particularly if that wifi zone is busy. Cheers, Andy Burnette David Farber wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *"Bob Frankston" > > *Date: *July 3, 2009 1:34:59 PM EDT > *To: *>, "'ip'" > > > *Cc: *"'Lauren Weinstein'" > > *Subject: **RE: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel =3D= =3D> =20 telecom > contributing to climate change?* > > Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that 3G uses so much power. Is i= t > because you must contact a faraway base station rather than simply= =20 using > the nearest access point =E2=80=93 and cities they are typically v= ery =20 near? Is > the protocol itself power hungry? Are 4G or WiMax any better? How = =20 much > of the energy usage is due to the complexity of cellular > protocols=E2=80=94supposedly 2G is lower usage than 3G? I'd be int= erested =20 in > numbers from those who have done the analysis. > > If you multiple this by a hundreds of millions of phones and anoth= er > billion devices such medical monitoring devices then we have a hug= e > unnecessary energy footprint in order to give each entity its own > billable path rather than allowing more efficient sharing of bit = =20 paths. > Same with "broadband". > > Simply using the nearest Wi-Fi access point makes a lot more sense= . =20 But > we still need to do work =E2=80=93 I don't think that 802.11 puts = much =20 emphasis > on managing power levels (does it?). > > Just as important are the post-ICANN protocols > to address > the problems with today's > protocols which are dependent upon those (billable) paths and on = =20 the DNS > for faux stability. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:58 > To: ip > Subject: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel > > This battery problem has nothing to do with the new iPhone. The ol= d > iPhone had basically the same problem. If you leave the phone in 3= G > mode power consumption is quite heavy. If you leave the phone in > non-3G mode but with WiFi and Bluetooth enabled, I find on either > generation phone I can go most of the day and not go below 60% = =20 battery. > > I have always berated Apple for stealing the battery on general > principles. But if anything I find the new iPhone 3GS to be better= on > the battery again as long as you keep it out of 3G mode unless you > need it. > > Dave > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Lauren Weinstein > > Date: July 3, 2009 12:15:54 PM EDT > To: dave@farber.net > Subject: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel > > > > New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel > > http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000591.html > > > Greetings. Before you even think about rushing out to buy the new > iPhone, you might want to read an interesting story about continui= ng > negative reactions to the iPhone 3GS' battery life > ( http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-iphone3-2009jul03,0,254660= 6.story > ). > > Of course, all smartphones are power hungry, and we use these > Internet-enabled phones for so much more than just talking. But t= he > iPhone is a particularly egregious case since the battery is seale= d > inside and not considered to be a "user replaceable" item. > > My G1 phone also sucks a lot of juice, but I can pop in an extra > charged battery anytime, and I have an extended duration battery > (bigger is better!) to use in there as well. > > With the iPhone, since battery life sucks, you're really stuck. > > There are, however, some comparatively ugly workarounds. One pers= on > responding just now to a tweet of mine on this topic says that he = =20 uses > a solar charger. I guess that's OK if you don't leave the iPhone > itself out in direct sun, and don't keep smashing your head into t= he > solar array (OK, so the solar array isn't really that big ...) > > A more practical way to deal with the problem may be something lik= e > this external battery pack > ( http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3D2767656 = -- =20 only > $20 on sale -- 50% discount -- at Radio Shack through July 11). Y= ou > can always duct tape it to your iPhone. Won't that be pretty? > > More generally, the whole concept of sealed-in batteries in Apple > devices strikes me as the epitome of "those suckers will buy anyth= ing > with our name on it -- boot to the head!" consumer relations. > > But hey, whatever turns you on. > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein > lauren@vortex.com > Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 > http://www.pfir.org/lauren > Co-Founder, PFIR > - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org > Co-Founder, NNSquad > - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org > Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition > for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.gctip.org > Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com > Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy > Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com > Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenweinstein > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > =20 Listbox] > > ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_EgzAHsQcOC/u1m0tEmav2g) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Begin for= warded message:

From: "Bob Frankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: July 6, 20= 09 10:13:00 PM EDT
To: "'Andrew C Burnette'" <acb@acb.net>, <dave@farber.net>
Subject: RE: [I= P] Re: New iPhone= 's Battery is Achilles' Heel =3D=3D> telecom contributing to clima= te change?

Thanks -- I= 'd read only the EVDO specs which are indeed just a use of packets. Y= ou've explained the ability to assign different 3G frequencies for ea= ch (GSM) carrier thus frustrated portability. This is the kind of str= uctural problem that make it harder to prevent locking customers in = =96 can antitrust lawyers deal with design decisions that are enable = market control =96 one more reason we need to look at the structure o= f the industry.

I=92m also curious about the Bluetooth/802.11 power co= nsumption differences.

-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: Andrew C Burnette [mailto:acb@acb.ne= t]
Sent: Mo= nday, July 06, 2009 21:58
To: dave@farber.net; Bob FrankstonSubject: Re: [IP] Re: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel =3D= =3D> telecom contributing to climate change?
=
Dave, et al,

For IP if y= ou so wish :-)

it's an AT&T = problem, or more precisely, "choice of 2g/3g" problem. I'll
be the CDMA or 4G only iphone could be embarrassingly different= .

Big diff that seems confusing = to the (u.s.a. only) cdma world is that
2G, 2+G and= 3G in the GSM domain are different radios (GSM, GPRS, and=
UMTS(w-cdma)/EDGE (evolved-gsm) respectively), and thus, each co= nsumes
some finite amount of power and cpu/dsp time. i= n CDMA, 3G (EVDO) is
simply another 1.25Mhz CDMA chann= el, dedicated to data use. essentially,
same radio,= same access algorithms, etc, thus no real difference or
handling IP/packet based data efficiently)=

As to 4G, yes will robinson, there i= s a significant decrease in the
amount of power used, = despite the higher data rates. base
stations/controlle= rs/sectors are down to 2watts per sector (90 or 120
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.000= 1pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">de= grees of coverage) from just shy of 10W for 3G and grossly more for
2g. Handset power gets lower, primarily due to CMOS pro= duction size
shrink, and a much better DSP to pull apa= rt the multiple signals prior
to an ultra low power ff= t in the device. battery life increases a good
bit, bu= t this also allows handset manufacturers to spend power

(some additional factors include 4G's technological timing allowing = for
placement of the amplifiers right on the back of a= ntennae rather than
100M away from a hut; thus SNR and= standing wave problems are squashed
effectively). Com= bined with better bookkeeping of handsets allows for
=
l= onger sleep times between beacons and requests to the network.

WiMAX looks more ietf derived, and LTE= sticks with 3gpp principles. Both
tend to be more pow= er efficient, WiMAX likely to have a slight advantage
= early on. (longer control cycles, and less overhead for packet data)<= o:p>

As for WiFi, I'm surprised at ho= w efficient it actually is. the original
goals weren= 't low power, and most dual band handsets tend to consume<= /div>
more power with wifi enabled. Particularly if that wifi zone is b= usy.

Cheers,
Andy= Burnette

David Farber wrote:
>
>
> Begin forwa= rded message:
>
> *From: *"Bob Fr= ankston" <Bob19-0501@bobf.franks= ton.com
> <m= ailto:Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>>
> *= Date: *July 3, 2009 1:34:59 PM EDT
> *To: *<dave@farber.net <mailto:dave@farber.net>&g= t;, "'ip'"
> <ip@v2.listbox.= com <mailto:ip@v2.listbox.com>>
>= *Cc: *"'Lauren Weinstein'" <= lauren@vortex.com <mailto:lauren@vortex.c= om>>
> *Subject: **RE: [IP] New iPhone's = Battery is Achilles' Heel =3D=3D> telecom
> cont= ributing to climate change?*
>
> = Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that 3G uses so much power. Is it
> because you must contact a faraway base station ra= ther than simply using
> the nearest access point = =E2=80=93 and cities they are typically very near? Is
= > the protocol itself power hungry? Are 4G or WiMax any better? Ho= w much
> of the energy usage is due to the complexi= ty of cellular
> protocols=E2=80=94supposedly 2G is= lower usage than 3G? I'd be interested in
> number= s from those who have done the analysis.
> <= o:p>
> If you multiple this by a hundreds of millions of= phones and another
> billion devices such medical = monitoring devices then we have a huge
> unnece= ssary energy footprint in order to give each entity its own
> billable path rather than allowing more efficient sharing = of bit paths.
> Same with "broadband".
> Simply using the nearest Wi-Fi acce= ss point makes a lot more sense. But
> we still nee= d to do work =E2=80=93 I don't think that 802.11 puts much emphasis
> on managing power levels (does it?).
> Just as important are the post-ICANN= protocols
> <http://frankston.com/?name=3DIPICANNDNSAlternative>= ; to address
> the problems <http://frankston.com/?name=3DDNSFailed> with to= day's
> protocols which are dependent upon those (b= illable) paths and on the DNS
> for faux stability.=
>
>
=
&= gt; -----Original Message-----
> From: David Farber= [mailto:dave@farber.net]
> S= ent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:58
> To: ip
> Subject: [IP] New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel<= /o:p>
>
> This battery problem has not= hing to do with the new iPhone. The old
> iPhone= had basically the same problem. If you leave the phone in 3G
> mode power consumption is quite heavy. If you leave the = phone in
> non-3G mode but with WiFi and Bluetooth = enabled, I find on either
> generation phone I can = go most of the day and not go below 60% battery.
>&= nbsp;
> I have always berated Apple for stealing th= e battery on general
> principles. But if anything = I find the new iPhone 3GS to be better on
> the ba= ttery again as long as you keep it out of 3G mode unless you
> need it.
>
> Da= ve
>
> Begin forwarded mess= age:
>
> From: Lauren Weins= tein <lauren@vortex.com &= lt;mailto:lauren@vortex.com>>
> Date: July 3, 2009 12:15:54 PM EDT
> To:= dave@farber.net <mailto:dave@farber.net>
> Subjec= t: New iPhone's Battery is Achilles' Heel
> <= o:p>
>
>
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.000= 1pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">&g= t;           &= nbsp;          New iPhon= e's Battery is Achilles' Heel
>
ht= tp://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000591.html
>&nb= sp;
>
> Greetings. Be= fore you even think about rushing out to buy the new
=
&= gt; iPhone, you might want to read an interesting story about continu= ing
> negative reactions to the iPhone 3GS' battery= life
> (&nbs= p;http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-iphone3-2009jul03,0,2546= 606.story
>   ).
>&= nbsp;
> Of course, all smartphones are power hungry= , and we use these
> Internet-enabled phones for so= much more than just talking. But the
> iPhon= e is a particularly egregious case since the battery is sealed
> inside and not considered to be a "user replaceable" it= em.
>
> My G1 phone also su= cks a lot of juice, but I can pop in an extra
> cha= rged battery anytime, and I have an extended duration battery
> (bigger is better!) to use in there as well.<= /div>
>
> With the iPhone, since battery lif= e sucks, you're really stuck.
>
> responding just now to a tweet of min= e on this topic says that he uses
> a solar charger= . I guess that's OK if you don't leave the iPhone
> solar array (OK, so the solar array isn't = really that big ...)
>
> A = more practical way to deal with the problem may be something like
> this external battery pack
> ( http://www.radioshack.com/produc= t/index.jsp?productId=3D2767656 -- only
> $20 on sale -- 50% disco= unt -- at Radio Shack through July 11). You
>= can always duct tape it to your iPhone. Won't that be pretty?<= o:p>
>
> More generally, the who= le concept of sealed-in batteries in Apple
> device= s strikes me as the epitome of "those suckers will buy anything<= /o:p>
> with our name on it -- boot to the head!" consumer rel= ations.
>
> But hey, whatev= er turns you on.
>
> --Laur= en--
> Lauren Weinstein
> lauren@vortex.com <mailto:lauren@vortex.com>
> Tel: += 1 (818) 225-2800
> http://www.pfir.org/lauren
> Co-Founder, PFIR
> &= nbsp; - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org
> Co-Founder, NNSquad
> &= nbsp; - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org
> Founder, GCTIP - Global Coalition
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.000= 1pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">&g= t;    for Transparent Internet Performance - http://www.g= ctip.org
> Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.v= ortex.com
> Member, ACM Committee on Computers = and Public Policy
> Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.v= ortex.com
> Twitter: https://twitte= r.com/laurenweinstein
>
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.000= 1pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">&g= t;
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
https://www.listbox.co= m/member/archive/247/=3Dnow
> RSS Feed:
http://www.listbox.com
>
> Archives <>
> <> <http://www.listbox.com>
>
<= /div>

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--Boundary_(ID_EgzAHsQcOC/u1m0tEmav2g)-- From interesting-people-errors+interesting-people-2179+40archive+2Ewww+2Einteresting-people+2Eorg@www.interesting-people.org Thu Jul 9 06:56:47 2009 Return-Path: Received: from DD-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMI00C01H2FD0@elistx.com> for interesting-people-2179@archive.www.interesting-people.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 06:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D-IPEOPLE.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMI00C01H29B6@elistx.com> for interesting-people@direct.www.interesting-people.org (ORCPT interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org); Thu, 09 Jul 2009 06:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) id <0KMG00401UA004@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.3]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31546) with ESMTP id <0KMG00LWUUA04E@elistx.com> for interesting-people@www.interesting-people.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com [208.72.237.63]) by a-lb-ob-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D2FA558 for ; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d-lb-ex-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80CD6B271 for ; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C972492 for ; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by b-lb-mx-quonix.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01B6248D for ; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (c-67-165-107-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.107.113] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n68DsM6c003946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:54:20 -0400 From: David Farber Subject: [IP] WSJ Editorial on Wireless Handset Exclusivity To: ip Errors-to: Reply-to: dave@farber.net Message-id: <8FD4F3F2-E0CA-4CAD-83F2-05100254EB72@farber.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_lPnlRraXH4A8EUytpaMh8Q)" X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 X-Listbox-UUID: D90FBCD4-6BC6-11DE-B60E-CAFDD2390E20 X-Listbox-List-ID: 247 References: <4A53C349.6080707@psu.edu> List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: List-Id: List-Software: listbox.com v2.0 --Boundary_(ID_lPnlRraXH4A8EUytpaMh8Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I endorse Robs statement Dave ps why do we have to commit to a 1 or 2 year contract to get decent = =20 rates (or any service) if we suppley the phone is another good =20 question djf Begin forwarded message: =46rom: Rob Frieden Date: July 7, 2009 5:51:05 PM EDT To: David Farber Subject: WSJ Editorial on Wireless Handset Exclusivity Hello Professor Farber: For IP if you'd like: The Wall Street Journal has extended its record for knee jerk = =20 corporate boosterism and extreme snarkiness, this time rejecting any = =20 need to scrutinize the wireless industry. See http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124692981354203419.html. The Journal= =20 waxes poetic about the competitiveness and innovativeness of the = =20 industry, but surprisingly reports in its editorial that the top four= =20 wireless carriers in the U.S. control 87.4% of the market. Down here at the consumer level, we know that the Big = =20 Four engage mimic each other in prices, terms, conditions, and even i= n =20 their advertisements. As the wireless market reaches maturity, the = =20 carriers still pitch how reliable their service has become and the = =20 niftiness of their exclusive handsets. Innovative? The Big Four=97and for that matter the entire industry, = =20 except for resellers-- apply a single business model that ties =20 wireless service with subsidized wireless handset sales. Consumers = =20 may think they are getting a great deal, but in reality they pay more= =20 for the handset through higher monthly rates than if they simply had = =20 bought the handset without the subsidy. No carrier offers lower rate= s =20 for new or existing subscribers who use unsubsidized handsets. The = =20 handset tie-in reduces churn and guarantees the subsidy pay back and = =20 more thanks to the two year service lock in. What I do not understand is why consumers do not push = =20 back more strongly. On the front page of the Journal was an article = =20 about how a teenage has hacked the iPhone 3GS to accept unauthorized = =20 software. So some consumers can resort to self help. For everyone = =20 else, the allure of 30,000=97count =91em=97software applications appe= ars =20 plenty. But if I asked most personal computer users if they would = =20 tolerate Dell or Comcast specifying the type and number of =20 applications consumers could download, I think the response would be = =20 different. Smartphones have become handheld personal computers. = =20 Users of wireless handsets should have the same freedom to access = =20 software and services, limited only by a =93harm to the network=94 an= d =20 technical compatibility standard. Currently, wireless manufacturers, = =20 such as Nokia, only have two major sales outlets: 1) the wireless = =20 carriers, which sell 60+% of all handsets; and 2) Big Box stores such= =20 as Best Buy and Walmart, which sell about 25% of all handsets. Think= =20 of the incentives to innovate and diversify if consumers could buy = =20 wireless devices through the many different channels available for = =20 wirebased devices. When the FCC forty years ago decoupled wireline = =20 services from handsets, a substantial boost in innovation and consume= r =20 choice arose. Regards, Rob Frieden --=20 Pioneers Chair and Professor of Telecommunications and Law Penn State University 102 Carnegie Building, University Park, PA 16802 Web page: http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/r= /m/rmf5/ Faculty Profile: http://comm.psu.edu/people/rmf5 SSRN Papers Site: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsBy= Auth.cfm?per_id=3D102928 ------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_lPnlRraXH4A8EUytpaMh8Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I endorse Robs statem= ent Dave

ps why do we have to commit to a 1 = or 2 year contract to get decent rates (or any service) if we suppley= the phone is another good question djf

Begin = forwarded message:

=
From: <= /font>Rob Frieden <rmf5@psu.edu>
Date: July 7, 2009 5:51:05 PM EDT
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">To: David Farber <dave@farber.ne= t>
Subject: WSJ Editorial on Wireless Handset E= xclusivity

Hello Professor F= arber:

       For IP if you'd like:
    The Wall = Street Journal = has extended its record for knee jerk corporate boosterism and extrem= e snarkiness, this time rejecting any need to scrutinize the wireless= industry.  See