RE: [IP] Dave, why do the IP consider recogniti on of cr eationism in afewschool districts so

[David Farber <dave@farber.net>]

_______________ Forward Header _______________
Subject:	RE: [IP] Dave, why do the IP consider recognition of cr eationism in afewschool districts so
Author:	Marc <marcaniballi@hotmail.com>
Date:		13th February 2005 12:27:07 pm

Dave;

For IP if you wish;

I may be simply preaching to the choir, but it occurs to me that Neil has
subtly answered his own question. 

Kansas schools aren't the current BIG problem - I agree. They ARE however
the place where big problems begin. Today's kids are tomorrow's leaders and
voters. As we discuss the decline in the quality of education, we seem to
forget that we are living in times that result from the shortcomings of
yesterday's educational system. While it may be difficult to link AIDS and
Sudanese genocide to American education, it is not to difficult to lay war,
Bush and a good measure of global warming at Americans' feet. How did we get
here? Because the average American is not broadly educated, lacks basic
skills in problem decomposition/resolution and critical thought, and is
poorly prepared for the role of citizen in a world class democracy. A system
that is by the people, for the people, is only as good as its people!

As education fails, so too follows the society. In certain respects, I have
to consider that the success of America in the last century was at least
somewhat due to the large scale importing of highly educated non-Americans
as either immigrants or students. Current xenophobic policy is choking that
lifeblood out of the country; Where will the critical thought, and broadly
founded imagination, that is necessary for innovation and social evolution,
come from?

If we deal with the Kansas' of the moment, we will be doomed to deal with
their consequences in 20 years.

I am not American, but this is swiftly ceasing to be a world with national
boundaries - what happens to America happens to the world. What I have found
disturbing are the reactions I hear to global polls of education quality
that show US students ranking lower than most developped nations; "Who cares
if the Swedes are better educated? They don't run the world, we do!" (I wish
I was joking)

Marc Aniballi



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ip@v2.listbox.com [mailto:owner-ip@v2.listbox.com] On Behalf Of
David Farber
Sent: February 12, 2005 7:25 PM
To: ip@v2.listbox.com
Subject: [IP] Dave, why do the IP consider recognition of cr eationism in a
fewschool districts so



_______________ Forward Header _______________
Subject:	Dave, why do the IP consider recognition of creationism in a
fewschool districts so
Author:	"Munro, Neil" <NMunro@nationaljournal.com>
Date:		12th February 2005 5:19:59 pm


much more offensive than the crummy math & science scores among so many poor
and middle-class Americans? Or the declining number of Americans going into
the sciences and engineering? Or, more broadly, why care about Kansas
schools when there are so many greater horrors, such as  global warming,
genocide in Sudan, President Bush, war, AIDS, etc.  

I'm not defending or attacking creationism, just trying to find out why your
folks care so much about the policy of a school board in Kansas. 

Neil 

________________________________

From: owner-ip@v2.listbox.com on behalf of n
Sent: Sat 2/12/2005 11:16 AM
To: ip@v2.listbox.com
Subject: [IP] Re: Creationists take their challenge to evolu tion theory
into theclassroom




----- Original Message -----
From: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq@quarterman.org>
To: <dave@farber.net>
Cc: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq@quarterman.org>; <ip@v2.listbox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Creationists take their challenge to evolu tion theory
into theclassroom


>> _______________ Forward Header _______________
>> Subject: Re: Creationists take their challenge to evolution theory 
>> into theclassroom
>> Author: David Byrden <iplist@byrden.com>
>> Date: 12th February 2005 1:26:23 pm
>
>> ...
>
>> I think my approach should be used to deflate the Creationists such 
>> as Mr. Harris, who said:
>>
>>  >> "There are creation myths on both sides. Which one do you teach?"
>>
>> Mr. Harris is wrong; there are more than two sides. Every religion 
>> has a different creation myth.
>
> And Christianity has at least two: Adam and Eve created simultaneously vs.
> Eve created out of Adam's side; they're both in Genesis 1.  This is 
> well known to every serious student of religion, or, for that matter, 
> to anyone who simply reads that book.
>
>> If the Creationists force Creation to be taught in schools, the 
>> schools should teach every single creation myth from cultures all 
>> around the world. This would leave no time for any science in science 
>> class - thus making a point - and would undermine the students'
>> unthinking acceptance of Christianity.
>
> Or at least undermine their unthinking acceptance of some particular 
> sect's interpretation of Genesis as representing Christianity.  After 
> all, when did Bishop Ussher's dating of Creation to 4004 BC 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher
>
> become more important than the Sermon on the Mount or the parable of 
> the Good Samaritan?
>
> David has said what I haven't seen many people say: the response that 
> will succeed to a creationist attack on evolution is not to circle the 
> wagons around evolution or even around science.  It is to 
> counterattack against the creationists' version of religion and
Christianity.
>
> This isn't something that many of us particularly want to do; science 
> isn't about attacking religion; it is about science.
> However, this isn't science; it is politics.  What creationists 
> believe and teach in their own homes and churches is their affair.
> But when they interject their dogma into public school systems as 
> fact, they expose it for critical examination, not to mention ridicule.
>
>> David
>
> -jsq

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