[IP] more on FBI documents obtained via FOIA indicate Patriot Act abuses [priv]

[David Farber <dave@farber.net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Synthesis: Law and Technology"  
<synthesis.law.and.technology@gmail.com>
Date: October 26, 2005 3:00:03 PM EDT
To: dave@farber.net
Subject: Re: [IP] more on FBI documents obtained via FOIA indicate  
Patriot Act abuses [priv]


Dave,

I think what many miss is that before, lots of illegal stuff was  
inadmissible in court and hence made it more difficult to use. Now in  
some cases there is provision for not even going to court and  
effectively indeterminate detention. That is what makes the  
surveillance more problematic. It's not the lack of penalties so much  
as the freedom to use this material now.






On 10/25/05, David Farber <dave@farber.net> wrote:

Begin forwarded message:

From: Jim Warren <jwarren@well.com >
Date: October 25, 2005 4:42:31 PM EDT
To: dave@farber.net
Cc: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
Subject: Re: [IP] FBI documents obtained via FOIA indicate Patriot
Act abuses [priv]


> ... The FBI has conducted clandestine surveillance on some U.S.
> residents for as long as 18 months at a time without proper
> paperwork or
> oversight ...
>

So?  Why should this surprise anyone?!

The problem with such ILLEGAL actions by government agents and
agencies is -- although it is prohibited by law, there are NO
PENALTIES mandated against those who perpetrate these crimes!

It is VERY common -- USUALLY the case! -- that legislators (local,
state and federal) enact such feel-good prohibitions and limits, when
they grant new and dangerous powers to their agencies, to "protect
us" against agent/agency abuses.

BUT ... they RARELY include any PENALTIES to be imposed on those who
are actually responsible, when (not if!) various agents and agencies
overreach, abuse their powers and functionally thumb their
governmental noses at the "rule of law" that is so-incessantly tauted
by the same conservative legislators who FAIL to mandate PENALTIES
against such government law-breakers.

Can you imagine those same law'n'order legislators enacting
comparable restraints and prohibitions on us CITIZENS ... without
ALSO making DAMN-sure they include substantive PENALTIES to be
imposed on anyone who dares to violate their limits?!

First and foremost, the government -- especially this law'n'order
government -- serves itSELF; NOT its citizens!

--jim, just another disgusted Citizen





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--
Dan Steinberg

SYNTHESIS:Law & Technology
35, du Ravin phone: (613) 794-5356
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