[IP] more on AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying Leak

[David Farber <dave@farber.net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Michael Kende <Michael.Kende@analysys.com>
Date: December 30, 2005 3:28:21 PM EST
To: dave@farber.net, ip@v2.listbox.com
Subject: RE: [IP] more on AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic  
Spying Leak

There is another implicit argument in Mr. Bray's comment that should be
challenged, and that is that this is an "ongoing intelligence operation"
that is only related to the war. I am not saying that it has been
abused, but I don't see how Mr. Bray could say that it has not been
abused - to say so would purely be a faith-based statement at this point
(in fact, I am not really sure that anyone could say what would actually
constitute abuse under this system).  I quickly note that this is not
knee jerk cynicism about this specific administration - it is simply
general cynicism about the danger of unchecked executive power that has
long been recognized by the checks and balances inherent in our system.

I think that every reasonable person recognizes a few issues in this
debate, namely that wiretapping/surveillance is a necessary tool of
wartime as well as peacetime, and that confidentiality of the target is
essential to the success of these operations.  Thus, the FISA system was
created so that someone independent of the administration confidentially
confirms the validity of each wiretap target, even ex post, so that
everyone has some assurance that the system is not being abused, without
anyone knowing the particulars.  Many on both sides of the aisle have
said this principle is inviolable, and I think it is dangerous to say
that does not matter because the administration has ruled that its
actions are legal.

To conclude, I guess I would ask Mr. Bray where the line is in all this
- if it is simply enough for the DOJ to say a wartime activity is legal
to make it so, is there ever an action that they could take that would
go too far for you?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:25 PM
To: ip@v2.listbox.com
Subject: [IP] more on AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying
Leak

Good question djf

Begin forwarded message:

From: Jeff Nye <jpn@users.sourceforge.net>
Date: December 30, 2005 2:17:27 PM EST
To: dave@farber.net
Subject: Re: [IP] more on AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying
Leak

I can appreciate Mr. Bray's comments in the context of a legal,
authorized "ongoing intelligence operation".  But it is far from clear
that that is what we have here.  Would it make any difference if the
"ongoing intelligence operation" was illegal in the first place?  That
is, if a crime is being committed in secret,  are people not allowed to
make it public?  Or is DOJ approval proof enough that no crime is being
committed?

Jeff Nye

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