[IP] Re: the undead urban myth of the LOC/EID split

Begin forwarded message:

From: John Day <jeanjour@comcast.net>

Date: October 31, 2008 9:59:20 AM EDT

To: Jonathan Smith <jms@cis.upenn.edu>, David Farber <dave@farber.net>

Subject: Re: Fwd: [IP] Re: the undead urban myth of the LOC/EID split

Since I am not on the list, (( I just invited him)) I will send this to you guys and let you do with it what you want (including trash it.) ;-) May as well have a little fun with this.

Obama isn't a socialist of that I am pretty sure of. But I am not so sure of Mr. Lynch! ;-)

I thought the way to keep price under control was with market systems that exhibit strong competitive feedback. Or course, that is difficult to do when you are trying to work with half a network architecture.

What is this reaction? Sounds like spoiled boomers that as soon as what they built doesn't work as they thought go crying to Daddy to make the big boys play fair?

We have known what the seminal problems were to solve for 30 years. They chose to ignore them.

Seems to me that when the going gets tough, the tough get going. They don't start sniffling for artificial fixes.

O, and the name is Day, not Daly. We are both from Illinois, but I leave upstate to them.

Take care,

John

Begin forwarded message:

From: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
Date: October 31, 2008 9:16:57 AM EDT
To: "ip" <ip@v2.listbox.com>
Subject: [IP] Re:   the undead urban myth of the LOC/EID split
Reply-To: dave@farber.net

Begin forwarded message:

From: Dan Lynch <dan@lynch.com>
Date: October 30, 2008 9:02:38 PM EDT
To: Dave Farber <dave@farber.net>, "Mike O'Dell" <mo@ccr.org>
Subject: Re: [IP] the undead urban myth of the LOC/EID split

Ok, Mike, I ordered the book. It better unlock the mysteries of life for
me! What I fear is that ANY reimplementation of addressing will be hijacked
by the 'carriers'. Heck, it is in their interest to glean as much revenue
out of their investments. Unless we the people figure out how to
re-regulate their bit pipe assets. Oh, we think we try to do that, but our
lovely graft stricken political system makes it impossible to do that and
make it stick for even a few years. In the coming years of financial crush
we may be able to find the political will to regulate the pipes. I
sincerely hope so. I have no problem with all the value add services that
anyone wants to add on top and charge whatever the market will bear, but
using the pipe ownership (which because of its "rights of way" being owned
by all citizens) as their monopoly club is just dead wrong for the
citizenry. The Telecom Act of 1996 was supposed to separate out all the
pipes from the services, but Congress and its creations backpedaled on that
as we all know.

Time to try again?

Meanwhile I will read John Daly's book on the true joys of NAT!

On 10/29/08 11:54 PM, "Dave Farber" <dave@farber.net> wrote:

Begin forwarded message:

From: mo@ccr.org (Mike O'Dell)
Date: October 29, 2008 8:28:25 PM EDT
To: dave@farber.net
Subject: the undead urban myth of the LOC/EID split

Dave,

an indulgence if you would.

there is a persistent urban myth (which gets repeated here
with some frequency) which states that splitting "network
addresses" into location-dependent and location-independent
components is the secret to life, the universe, and everything.

i know that myth quite well because once upon a time i subscribed
to it and made a serious proposal to do just that with IPv6.

But if you want to find out why the myth is wrong and what it
takes to have it work right from first principles, you're going
to have to read a book that will likely take some work:

"Patterns in Network Architecture:
A Return to Fundamentals"
by John Day

It contains more than a few deeply profound insights.
Among other things, you'll discover why "global addresses" are
an abberation, and that "NAT" is an absolutely natural technique
to use in structure networks - it's just the introduction of an

arbitrary abstraction encapusulation. In fact, the ugliness of
"NAT" is directly related to how, uh, "unfortunate" the
underlying architecture really is.

this is indeed a shameless plug for John's remarkable book.
if you really want to know what a clean, deeply elegant
network architecture based on solid fundamentals
can look like, read his book.

cheers,
-mo

Full and Fair Disclosure:
I reviewed the text along the way as a work in progress.

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