[IP] Re: Vanish: Self-destructing digital data

[David Farber <dave@farber.net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Tim Pozar <pozar@lns.com>
Date: July 23, 2009 7:14:31 PM EDT
To: dave@farber.net
Cc: ip <ip@v2.listbox.com>
Subject: Re: [IP] Re:   Vanish:  Self-destructing digital data

It is practical in a controlled environment where everyone is agreeing
to the procedures of document retention.  You can do that with some
success within a company.

Typically you want to see that documents disappear after a time frame to
minimize discover costs.  If everyone is working for the same goal and
are trained and follow the procedures, then systems like this work.

I help start up an electronic document retention company called
Disappearing Inc.  We had very good technology but it is a difficult
sell as it is an insurance policy.  Many companies don't feel they need
to use it until they get involved with a court case, and then it is too
late.

Of course this system falls apart once documents or email goes outside
of the realm where everyone is pulling for the same goal.

Tim

on 7/23/09 2:54 PM David Farber said the following:
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Bruce Schechter <bruce@schechter.com>
> Date: July 23, 2009 5:37:18 PM EDT
> To: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
> Subject: RE:   Vanish:  Self-destructing digital data
>
> Hi Dave,
> For IP, if you wish...
> Forgive me if this is a naïve question, but can someone please explain
> the use case where self-destructing data is practical, given that a
> recipient of the data could copy it, save it, take a "screenshot",  
> etc.,
> before the bullet is fired on self-destruction?
> Thanks, Bruce
>
> Bruce Schechter | bruce@schechter.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:17 PM
> To: Ip Ip
> Subject: Re: Vanish: Self-destructing digital data
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "Ed Gerck, Ph.D." <egerck@nma.com>
> Date: July 22, 2009 12:09:03 PM EDT
> To: dave@farber.net
> Cc: ip <ip@v2.listbox.com>
> Subject: Re: [IP] Vanish:  Self-destructing digital data
>
> [Dave: for IP if you wish]
> > From: Tadayoshi Kohno <yoshi@cs.washington.edu>
> > Date: July 21, 2009 1:28:00 PM EDT
> > To: dave@farber.net
> > Subject: Vanish:  Self-destructing digital data
> >
> > Today the New York Times reported on our "Vanish" research project
> > on "self-destructing data":
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/science/21crypto.html
> > .
>
> Congratulations on the NYT article. However, the significant point of
> using a trust model that does not depend on the integrity of third
> parties is not new, while relying on a peer-to-peer network for "key
> hiding" is by itself an unsolved problem today (both technically and
> commercially).  The free "Zmail Basic"  listed in "Ten Free Services
> To Send Self-Destructing Emails Which Expire/Disappear Automatically
> After Specified Time Interval" at
> <http://thinkabdul.com/2007/07/25/ten-free-services-to-send-self-destructing-emails-which-expiredisappear-automatically-after-specified-time-interval/
>
> > also uses a trust model that does not depend on the integrity of
> third parties but the novelty there is that keys are not stored
> anywhere (each dialogue party holds a part of it), and uses a system
> of "minority control" to allow independent destruction of the
> capability to reassemble the entire key.
>
> Regarding legal issues surrounding the use of any "self-destruct"
> technology, where certain laws do require that corporations archive e-
> mails and make them accessible, the same "Zmail Basic" offers a
> solution based on both technology and the legal control offered by the
> US DMCA (and similar laws internationally), allowing senders to
> independently control the lifetime of the information they send --
> which is legally- and technically-effective.
>
> Best regards,
> Ed Gerck
>
> (*) I designed Zmail Basic and Premium.

--
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